SGOTM 09 - Team CFR

[Obormot]

I have our Skype log starting from 28th march, 1 day after the save was released. I think there was some more discussion earlier, before the game started but it looks like it is mostly summed up in Dynamic's post here.

By 28.03 Dynamic has already played our first session settling 1S of the start, switching to Police State & Enviromentalism on turn 0. He played up to discovery of Agriculture, which was the only obvious tech to research. Now we need to decide on our next tech goal. Our scout went south and saw the borders of the barbarian city, and the city site with cows/clams, but didn't see any barb units yet.

28.03

We have 3 options for the next tech: wheel->pottery for roads and granaries, AH for a 2nd city near cows or sheep and a shorter way to writing or BW for protection against barbs that we might need if we REX south and maybe slavery. We also discuss how dangerous the barbs might be, we didn't see any of their uber-promoted units yet, so the idea of settling south near the cows without adequate protection didn't seem that crazy yet. Obormot and Lexad are in favour of going AH next for REXing, while Dynamic wants to play it safe and go wheel->pottery with slower REX and settling cities in the north only untill we have axes (we noticed the ice blocking the northern coast from barb galleys); in that case we can instead build a granary and have a higher population in our capital, which will allow us to catch up with REX later. We also discuss the new exploit from the maintenance thread that allows to reveal some map info by shift & right clicking.

29.03

Dynamic uses the exploit to look around a bit, but curses it for being extremely tedious work.

30.03

We agree to follow Dynamic's plan of going wheel->pottery and growing a large capital with an early granary. A big capital will then build settlers/workers quickly to catch up with REXing. As OT4E noted, with our traits we won't need very big cities to build libraries and universities quickly, so Oxford won't be delayed too. Dynamic continues with his turnset, but only 4 turns are played (we reach turn 11). We start researching the wheel. Scout circles our capital and finds cows, wheat, uranium, marble; meets Hammurabi. Worker is built in Athens.

We didn't really plan on building the Oracle before, as we wanted to concentrate on REXing. But th land doesn't look very promising and we found marble, so the Oracle discussion starts again. Obormot proposes trying a CS slingshot as it has a good sinergy with the plan of growing a big capital, and the net number of beakers we gain might be more then the cost of electricity or genetics due to snowball effect; most people are in favour or electricity/genetics slingshot however, because then we are not constrained by waiting for prerequisites and don't need to push our early science rate very hard, so we can concentrate on developement. Lexad sais that since the city near marble is very weak in the long term, we may as well save the hammers required to build the settler and build the Oracle without marble for less total cost; but most people are OK with the marble city, even though it is weak in the long term, it may serve as a decent worker/settler pump.

We discuss our future city locations, and whether to build the settler for our 2nd city at size 2 working only 2 corn tiles or grow it to size 3 also working a windmill. If we settle our 2nd in the north, we'll give it the windmill anyway, so that it can build a quick WB, so it looks like size 2 is better. Most people agree to build 2 quick settlers in the capital before switching to growth: up north near the fish and to the west near marble.

31.03

We make a test map and run several tests with 2nd city in the north and 3rd near marble. Dynamic thinks it might still be better to grow to size 3 before building settlers; it delays the 2nd city by 1 turn only and doesn;t delay the 3rd city and workers. We find out that if we go for Alphabet first, then we'll only be able to complete the CS slingshot in ~800AD, which is too risky.

01.04

Some further testing. Lexad tests early risk-free Oracle going for religious techs before Alphabet and gets Oracle built in 1500BC. But we decide that Oracle is not crucial and we should be aiming for 1000BC, which is still more or less safe, and can be achieved even with Alphabet first, though we do need to have marble connected in that case. We decide that it is not a bad idea to build Oracle in the capital; the northern city can produce the first several GS that we want to be 100% sure; after that getting a GP is OK, we actually need some non-GS GP for golden ages. Also the capital needs to grow and invest hammers into something usefull while growing.

02.04

We agreed on our developement for the nearest future: 2nd city in the north, 3rd city on top of the marble, capital grows to size 3 then builds the two settlers & workers, then granary, library, Oracle; 2nd city builds WB, library and generates the GS for academy. Dynamic compiles a micromanagement plan for his turnset.

03.04

Dynamic continues playing his turnset and reaches turn 25. The scout goes south and meets Joao, developement goes according to the plan, Sparta is founded. At turn 25 he stops, because Bemep proposed to temporarily give one of the corns to Sparta to reach size 2 quickly; this option looks better then the original plan allowing an earlier academy, so we decide to stop for more calculations.

04.04

We analyse giving corn to Sparta to spped up its growth; we find out that the WB is considered to be a military unit, so we get a bonus from the Police State civic when builing the WB at 4 base hammers, making it more efficent to grow Sparta to size 2 ASAP. Dynamic makes changes to his plan and extends it to turn 50 (new plan).

05.04

Some more discussion about minor MM. Dynamic completes his turnset (up to turn 30). We see a barbarian galley with multiple promotions. We are starting to realise that the barb city was seriously beefed up with multiple buildings and will cause much trouble. We are afraid that they are going to discover Machinery soon with free beakers from other civs, but Lexad sais that barbs don't build crossbows, so it is not that bad.

Our empire at turn 30:

 

[Obormot]

06.04

Obormot is prepairing for the next turnset (turns 30-40), he suggests several changes to the current plan: getting the pasture on sheep and the windmill built sooner and skipping granary in corinth to build one more worker instead. Some discussion about using organaised religion; Obormot proposes to research polytheism instead of meditation to be able to get monotheism after CS for a triple revolt to bureau/slavery/org. rel which still costs only 1 turn on quick; but Dynamic doesn't want to waste time and thinks it is better to trade for poly & mono even though we are unlikely to do it before CS. Dynamic tries to extract some info from the graphs, and is puzzled with the culture graph of the Misfits, because it seems like it became less steep at some point.

07.04

Obormot completes the plan for his turnset (turns 30-40) making the changes mentioned above, and plays. Turnset events: Corinth settled on turn 37 on top of the marble and connected to the capital (actually the road was built before settling, because as Dynamic pointed out it allows to get the trade route coin 1 turn earlier); Alphabet slingshot is completed on turn 40, Hammi & Joao haven't met yet and will only trade mining and AH; Sparta built a library and started working towards the GS for the academy in Athens. Bad news for us as we see a barb galley east of Sparta which doesn't enter our culture, but we don't know how much time we have. The passage from Atlantis is blocked by the ice, and the galley is without promotions, so we believe that it was a randomly spawned one (which is bad because we are then the only team that has to deal with it). We also witness a barbarian attack on Portugal.

Our empire at turn 40:

08.04

Dynamic deduces from the graphs that Murky Waters researched the religious branch, while XTeam went for early archery.

09.04

No discussion except for some more guessing about how other teams played based on the graphs.

10.04

OT4E is prepairing for the next turnset (turns 40-50). We discuss whether it is better to prioritise forest preserves on yellow tiles or on green tiles near the capital; the latter means faster growth, but Dynamic calculates that we won't have enough workers to provide the capital with improved tiles and happiness from preserves on time in that case, as its growth should really take off after the granary which is due in two turns from now. Another problem is the barb galley, we discuss whether we need to fit in sailing into our tech queue so that we can build a galley to protect our fish. Another topic is the build queue in the capital after Oracle; we want to build an airship next for exploration and then maybe a settler; but we might as well build the settler in anoter city and let the capital build barracks and troops for protection (which we'll need if we want to settle in the south), so that the capital continues growing even further. OT4E plays two turns to learn whether we have horses; we get AH and mining from Hammi & Joao for writing, no horses in sight. Granary is built in the capital.

11.04

OT4E continues playing and reaches turn 46, which is the next decision point. We finish learning the religious techs + masonry, so we are ready to start Oracle now. Capital built library, sparta produced the GS that was use to build academy in Athens. Joao and Hammi have met each other and we can now trade meditation + PH for BW. We need to decide now what to build in Corinth and Sparta and whether we want to research sailing.

12.04

The question of how to manage Sparta which can either continue running two scientists and produce another GS quickly or switch to production tiles to fuel REXing sparks discussion about our long-term strategy. Two main goals seem to be getting Biology ASAP which allows national park and makes our otherwise poor terrain usefull; we also need to have as many cities as possible by the time we reach biology or shortly after that so that we have enough time to develop them. Obormot estimates each additional city to be worth about 2-3 turns off our victory date (we expect our capital to produce about 1000 bpt in the end, other cities about 100-150 bpt based on the terrain, while we expect to win in about 50-60 turns after biology based on the test game we played before starting the real one as well as some blind guessing). The idea of using a lot of bulbing to speed up biology is discussed, but we agree it is not a good idea in this game, since we'll have to waste GSs on PP and philosofy which are high on the list, but are not needed because we already know scietific method. The only tech that can be bulbed immidiately on the way to biology is education, but we are not sure that we'll be able to get Oxford sooner by bulbing education because of our slow settling, and if bulbing doesn't speed up Oxford significantly, then settling should pay back the cost before we reach biology and should be the better option. We think that we are going to lauch a total of 4 golden ages in this game (based on Dynamic's experience with space), one of them from Tadj Mahal, so we need to get at least 3 great people that are not scientists. We are not planning to research music or communism, and the GE from fusion is going to be too late, especially if we want to tak genetics from Oracle; that leaves us only economics GM from techs, so we'll have to find a way to get two more in cities, which might be tircky after NP as it'll be hard for other cities to catch up with the capital that will run a ton of scientists.

We discuss whether we want to take genetics or electricity from Oracle, and it looks like the extra coins from windmills won't make up for the lower cost. [We didn't think about liberalism as CRC did. They figured out that they may take electriciy with Oracle and then genetics with liberalism, which gives more total bulbs then genetics from Oracle and assembly line from liberalism; but this is based on better guessing of AI science rate; had we taken more expensive industrialism from liberalism, we would have gained more beakers. Also a problem with oracling electricity is eleminating a tech that is bulbable by GSs. CRC might have spare GSs left in the end. But all this are post-game thoughts, we didn't think about it when we chose to take genetics from Oracle.]

Then we have our long discussion about taking a detour to learn sailing and build some protection from the barb galley. In the end we decide that the barbs don't know about our fish, so won't pillage it, and skip sailing. [The correct answer we learnt later thanks to DanF: it is true that barb galleys won't enter culture if they don't see any pillage or attack targets within a certain radius; it is also true that they don't know about our fish, or it would have already got pillaged; but there is another piece of code somewehere that reveals improvements that were built long enough to the barbs; so our fish is not safe.]

We discuss the build order in our cities. We want to build a settler in Athens for the cow/wheat/uranium city; Sparta and Corinth should then produce units to protect it, archers or phalanxes depending on copper.

OT4E completes his session, we reach turn 50 (1000BC). We trade for BW and find copper underneath Sparta; Oracle is done in Athens and we take genetics; Athens has reached size 10 now; we discover math (on the route to civil service).

Our empire at turn 50 (1000BC):

Lexad starts preairing for his turnset (turns 50-60) (Athens: aitship, settler, barracks, phalanx, settler; Sparta: phalanx, granary or galley while generating GS; Corinth: phalanx, worker, granary; workers build road south to the future city and preserves near Athens to grow it further.)

13.04

Obormot disagrees about building granaries in Sparta and Corinth, but proposes to build more settlers and workers there. Dynamic thinks that capital might need to build a lot of phalanxes for protection; in the end we decide to build two settlers in Corinth and one in Athens while Athens should also build most of protection troops with barracks. We decide to postpone the 2nd GS from Sparta and build workers there instead and maybe a galley if we manage to trade for sailing. Some discussion about switching to confucianism and org. rel. civic. OT4E proposes launching an early golden age with the GS to revolt without anarchy, but most people don't want a GA with little tiles to work and without MoM. Obormot proposes to skip religion in the early game and switch to it during a mid-game golden age after NP; this way we can have 5 turns of org. rel. to build required missionaries (key cities only) and then pacifism for the rest of the game. Org. rel. in the early game doesn't help much since our bonus for building libraries and universities is high already.

14.04

Posol proposes to get currency before civil service. The trade routes aren't worth a lot at this point, but if we get enough money in trades it might be a good idea. We are hoping to meet more AI with the airship, but we don't know how much money we'll be able to get from them.

15.04

Some more discussion on currency first vs CoL->CS first.

 

[Obormot]

16.04

We finally decide in favour of learning currency first. It looks like it will only delay CS by 1 turn. Lexad updates his pre-game plan to build more phalanxes in the capital while Corinth builds two settlers, and makes some adjustments to Sparta, so that we can build a galleu quickly as soon as we trade for sailing.

17.04

Lexads plays 3 turns. Babylon builds the Great Wall, so we expect all the barbs attacj us. We trade for IW, find iron in the south near cows, wheat and uranium, which makes a great new city site. We build the airship and scout the barb city; looks like it will be impossible to protect sea resources untill frigates. We discuss our city placement, we need 3 more cities ASAP for Oxford, as our REXing is lagging behind our science. Location of 4th city looks obvious now (cows, wheat, iron), 5th and 6th is a bit more tricky because of the barbs. So far the plan was to settle the 5th city near the barbs for cows and clams in the FC, and 6th in the south for cows, rice and winde in the FC. Dynamic proposes skipping the cows/clams city as it is going to be hard to protect. We also discuss the placement of later cities, the scout has just found the great spot with pigs/clams/fish far in the south, a city with iron, FP and perhaps sharing the pig will make another decent city.

18.04

We discuss flight schedule for our airship. We need to scout Greenland, uncover some fog for a trade route with Joao after sailing, scout the territory in front of our settler, scout Babylon and look for more contacts.

19.04

We discuss the possibility of blockading Atlantis with triremes, the plan includes building two forts to let galleys from Sparta sail south. But our coastal cities are weak and need to build libraries and universities for Oxford, so it doesn't look feasible. We still cannot decide whether we want a GS ASAP in Sparta for settling or more workers.

20.04

Dynamic discovers that the barbs will only land near a city, so if we delay settling coastal cities defending will be easier.

21.04

Dynamic runs some tests that confirm that our settling is behind our science, so we decide to delay our 2nd GS and concentrate on settling.

25.04

Lexad makes the final version of his pre-game plan for turns 53-60. Sparta is switched to production mode and builds a worker, then prepairs to build a galley ASAP once we trade for sailing; Athens builds settler then barracks and phalanxes for protection; Corinth builds a phalanx and then two settlers for 5th & 6th cities. Worker actions are optimised to build a road to the 4th city and mine uranium ASAP so that the city gets a good tile immidiately.

 

[Obormot]

26.04

Lexad continues with his turnset. We explore greenland with our airship, there is enough space for two decent cities (sheep & furs, fish). We discover currency. Barbarian galley pillages our fish net; shortly after that sailing becomes available for trade, only a few turns late. We decide to chop a forest near Sparta to build a galley & a workboat to get rid of the barb galley and repair our fish net. We stop after playing 3 turns again to recalculate micromanagement.

27.04

Lexad completes his turnser. We discover CoL, confucianism is founded in Sparta; Thebes is settled 1S of the iron. We bombard the barb galley with the airship and it dies next turn attacking our galley, fish net is rebuilt. Another unlucky event happens: two barb axes show up near Corinth and we loose a phalanx at 98% odds. We were busy building phalanxes in Athens during the whole turnset, and now have 6 of them (built 7, lost 1), so we are ready to expand southwards.

Our empire at turn 61:

28.04

We discuss the possibility of amassing an army of maces before to conquer Babylon, but it looks like we don't have enough time to build the required number of units before we discover education, so a war now will delay Oxford significantly. Because with our traits libraries & universities & Oxford are cheaper then 10 maces + 10 cats, we decide to go for fast Oxford first. The capital will be building wealth when there is nothing else to build to speed up CS and then education.

04.05

Bemep starts planning his turnset (60-70). The main goal is to found two more cities ASAP for Oxford and have enough untis to protect them from the barbs. So far we are planning to settle city #5 in the south 1N of the wine between rice and cows, and city #6 1N of the cows near the barbs. Our first 4 cities shouldn't have much trouble building universities, but 5th & 6th city won't have enough time, so some chopping will be required. We are really short on workers, and
planning worker actions is getting very difficult, as we always seem to be short of just 1 worker-turn everywhere. Again we discuss what to do with Sparta, after some debate we decide to employ scientists again and finish working on the 2nd GS which will rush education or settle, depending on the 5th & 6th city status at that point; after producing the GS we'll already be in slavery (planning a double revolt to slavery/bureau after CS) and will rush granary, lighthouse and university.

05.05

Some discussion on settling the GS vs bulbing education. Dynamic estimates that we'll need to add about 4 maces to our 6 phalanxes to protect the cow city.

 

[Obormot]

06.05

Our discussion so far has shown that our developement was seriously unbalanced, so we decided that we need to run several tests to synchronise research and university builds in all cities. Bemep makes a plan that allows all universities to be done in 120AD with a combination of whipping and chopping, education is bulbed by the GS. But many cities don't even have granaries in that case, and Obormot doesn't like whipping without granaries, so he thinks settling the GS so thta the cities have more time to develop and build granaries before library + university might be better. Dynamic tests that option and gets universities done in 230AD, 3 turns later. In this case many cities stand idle, waiting for education, which is not good, but might be OK if we plan a war since we can then fit barracks/maces into the queu.

07.05

Bemep improves his plan getting universities 1 turn sooner, but with only two maces built for defending the cow city, which Dynamic says is not enough. We are discussing how to build the Oxford wonder itself once all universities are done. If universities are built in 3 turns after education, we can set up a maximum overflow into Oxford and build it in 6 turns, if universities are built in 2 turns we'll need whipping to have max overflow in the capital, and it is not clear whether 1 turn of Oxford is worth loosing a citizen in the capital.

Dynamic proposes to settle the 6th city in Greenland instead of 1N of the cows, this way we won't need so many units in defense. Our only city at the barb coast will be the cow/rice city with only 1 tile adjacent to it, where all the barbs will suicide by amphibious attacks. Dynamic tests that option and gets all universities built in 80AD with no risk of barbs doing any damage.

We discuss how much forests we need to save for happiness. With very few luxuries we think it might be best to have at least 3 forests near each city, to allow growth to about 15 pop (with a couple more luxes after astronomy).

08.05

Dynamic tests the option of settling the city in Greenland + settling the GS, universities in 200AD, all cities have granaries, Oxford is 3-4 turns later compared to bulbing education. Lexad thinks that 4 turns difference at quick is too much and bulbing is better. Obormot disagrees since 4 turns of Oxford only add ~200 beakers to the cost the GS (~1000 beakers), and the question is will the settled GS produce that many beakers before biology and NPark.

09.05

We discuss delaying the cow city and southern cities on the east coast and investing into a war against Babylon to capture the Great Wall (if we need lots of units to protect those cities, why don't we put them to good use?). In that case settling should be better then bulbing, since we won't be able to have a constant 100% research rate by building gold if we are building units, and then we may just run 0% science during the 3 turns of Oxford delay.

10.05

Dynamic thinks that the waris going to be too expensive, since Hammy should soon settle near copper and the distance to his capital will be too long; then if we dow he'll start building an archer every turn by the time our stack reaches Babylon we'll face a huge number of bowmen & Xbows. We'll be able to settle ~11 cities peacefully.

11.05

We don't know what to do, because the war against with maces looks difficult, and peacefull REX doesn't give enough cities (and still requires serious investment into units to protect the coast). We start thinking about a possible war with rifles. For some reason nobody sees that rifling also allows to build paratrropers on this setup.

12.05

Yet again we discuss settling vs bulbing; but it looks like Dynamic has almost convinced everyone that settling is better because cities will then have time to build granaries.

14.05

Dynamic is in favour of a totally peacefull route.

15.05

We notice a steep rise in the power graph of other teams, which means that they went for rifling before biology; but we don't see the paratrooper option, and thinking about a war with rifles, which doesn't look like a good option with rifles being only slightly better then maces.

 

[Obormot]

16.05

Dynamic plays the final pre-Oxford test with education bulbed; he thinks that this way we can get biology 1 turn sooner at best, but at the cost of less developed cities and lower research rate, so settling the GS is now decided.

17.05

Some discussion about micromanagement and worker actions.

18.05

Bemep is busy, so he is swapped with Dynamic. After almost a month of discussion we finally play some turns (61-65). Build two settlers in Corinth & Athens for the planned city sites in Greenland and in the south. Explore Babylon with the airship, find the other continent, meet Wang Kong, Capac. Civil service is discovered in 400BC and we stop here.

19.05

We decide to chop some outer forest for Athens to get Oxford done in 5 turns.

20.05

Obormot comes up with the idea of settling a city near the copper, that will flip the tile SE,SE of Babylon and make the war much easier, since our stack will only have to walk for 1-2 turns, not 5-7 turns. The city won't be able to grow before biology, but after biology it is going to be a nice city. Dynamic likes the idea, but says that if we want to settle near copper we should go for it ASAP, otherwise Hammy will claim the spot, so we now want to build one more settler without
delaying Oxford, which requires more MM optimisations.

21.05

More micromanagement discussion.

22.05

We discuss the number of troops we'll need for war against Babylon. We expect Hammy to have something like 1 Xbow, a couple of bowmen and a couple of swords/axes in his capital, 6 maces and 5 cats should be enough to take the city, but we also need to protect Babylon after that, and perhaps continue fighting to capture more cities (although only Babylon is crucial with the Great Wall and lots of forests, other cities are mediocre).

23.05

Dynamic makes the plan for the rest of his session with the settler for 7th city near copper fit into the queu in Corinth. We'll only have 7 workers for 7 cities before Oxford, but somehow Dynamic and Bemep managed to synchronise their actions so nicely that we manage to get everything done on time. After Oxford we'll have to build a huge number of workers to chain irrigation in advance before we discover biology, so that our cities start growing ASAP.

24.05

Dynamic comletes his turnset (we reach turn 70, 200BC). Two new cities are settled, Argos in Greenland, 1NW of the sheep (leaving some space for another city on the eastern tip of Greenland to get the fish); and Knossos in the south between cows and rice. Phalanx stack is fortified on the tile 1SE of Knossos, since it is the only coastal tile adjacent to the city the barbs will suicide doing amphibious attacks instead of landing their units on free tiles. We discover paper and start education. Airship finds Shaka and Stalin, we trade for their maps and will circumnavigate next turn. We trade monarchy from Hammy. Huayna Capac knows calendar for a while now, but won't trade, he is industrious and has a big capital. We might miss the MoM wonder, which is very important for fast space. Dynamics thinks we should probably learn calendar straight after education, not stopping for 0% research untill Oxford, to make it a sure thing.

Our empire on turn 70 (200BC):

 

[Obormot]

29.05

Bemep prepaires to play the next turnset (turns 70-80). Bemep doesn't like that we have too few workers (the ration will go down to 1.0 workers per city once we settler near copper), but there is not much we can do, since all MM has been optimised to get universities built in all cities ASAP, and trying to fit more workers into the queu won't be possible without delaying Oxford. We should be able to build 1-2 workers in the capital though, but it depends on how much money we'll get from the AI in trades, as the capital has to buil wealth otherwise to support 100% research rate.

30.05

After some more discussion on MM Bemep plays his turns. Education is discovered, and all universities built in two turns, we are ready to start Oxford. Mycenae is settled 1N of the copper and a library is chopped there ASAP to culture flip the tile 1SE of Babylon to enable blitz-crieg with maces and cats. We plan to go to 0% research mode between Education and the completion of Oxford, with the exception of learning calendar, which we need ASAP to build MoM before the incas. Calendar is discovered in the end of Bemep's session and we plan to chop MoM in Corinth, which will
never grow big enough and won't need the forests for happiness.

Our empire at turn 80 (200AD):

31.05

Obormot prepairs to play the next session (turns 80-90). We need to prepair for war with Babylon, and start chaining irrigation around the empire, so that the growth boom in our cities starts immidiately after learning bilology. Another priority is continue REXing, first of all settle in the south before Joao.

We notice that Joao is in WHEOOH mode. Dynamic refused to give him Alphabet as tribute during his turnset, so it looks like he is going to DOW on us soon. So we should also keep some units in the south, and settling the southern cities may be to dangerous right now.

We notice that Hammy discovered aesthetics. Bad news again, because now he will probably beeline music and culture bomb us with the free GA. This will make the war significantly more difficult, and might even disrupt our irrigation chain. Dynamic thinks we should consider learning music ourselves to prevent culture-bombing. This will give us several extra bonuses: the free GA might be required to launch a golden age; we need 3 non-scientist GP for our planned 4 golden ages, and so far we only reliably get one: the GM from economics. We expect to get one more in Athens, which has a lot of prophet points thanks to the Oracle and the 3rd one should be produced elsewhere, which might be tricky. The free artisc will make things easier. Another consideration is the Heroic Epic. We have a phalanx with 7 XP points already, so with some luck we can get it to 10 points and build HE.

01.06

We discuss the number of units that we'll need to start the war against Babylon, and the war plan. We decide that we should aim at 8 maces + 8 cats + 4 airships. Athens will be busy building Oxford, and after that can switch to building maces. Thebes is another powerfull production city and can build more units. If we manage to promote our phalanx to 10 XP in the nearest future, Thebes will get the HE. Other cities are not strong enough currently, but can rush 1-2 cats/airships each. We should also keep at least 1 mace + phalanxes in the south to protect us from Joao.

03.06

Obormot prepairs his pre-play plan. He expects to have enough units to attack Hammy in 620-650AD, i.e. in 14-15 turns from now. He also plans to settle one more city in Greenland, but settling on the mainland will have to be halted, because we don't have enough units to fight Babylon and protect our new cities in the south from the barbs and Joao.

06.06

Obormot plays his turnset. Joao DOWs on us as expected and brings an Xbow and an archer. We only had phalanxes and a cat at Knossos, no maces were built yet. The plan was to sacrifice a cat and then finish off the XBow with phalanxes, but we had a very unlucky battle: 4.8 strength XBow killed out 5.0 strength cat without loosing a single HP point. We were forced to retreat our stack to Knossos, and leave the tile 1SE open for the barbs to land. So things got a bit out of control, as the barbs landed a huge amount of units instead of suiciding doing amphibious attacks as they did before. The portuguese stack fortifies in the forest and did not move out to the open area. In the end of the session we have pulled enough maces and cats to Knossos to take out barbs and Joao's stack, but the attack on Babylon will be delayed. Also we had no luck upgrading our phalanx to 10XP, had now opportunity to attack with it at high odds, so the maces were built without HE. The peacefull part went more or less as planned, we completed Oxford in Athens, built MoM in Corinth, got music before Hammy and started the run towards biology getting engineering, chained irrigation, and built a settler to found another city in Greenland. The settling of our southern land is delayed indefinitely though.

At the end of the session we have 9 maces, 4 cats, 3 airships and 6 phalanxes. Barbs have 4 units in our territory (there were more of them, but several died attacking portuguese Xbows in the forest), and Joao had 2 Xbows and a sword. The tile 1SE of Babylon is nearly flipped (47% greek).

Turn 90 (500AD) screenshot:

 

[Obormot]

07.06

We discuss what to do with Joao, it says that he'll make peace after 8 turns in xml (t have already passed), but Lexad finds out that this value is doubled if the AI is the one who DOWs. It is also influenced by the damage ratio, but we are the ones who had more losses (we lost a cat, Joao lost an archer), so there is no hope of making peace soon. We also don't feel like killing Xbows fortified in the forest with maces, the losses will be too high. So we decide to clear the barb stack only, but leave the portuguese stack alone. Knossos will rush a musket that we will be safe from Xbows even in the open and will lock the key tile 1SE of Knossos from the barbs again; then we'll just wait the required number of turns. Maces & cats will take out the barb stack, heal and attack Hammy.

Lexad plays his turnset (a bit longer then 10 turns). We destroy the barb stack (lost 1 mace at high odds again), we finally manage to promote our phalanx to 10 XP, but the army is now almost complete. We had some bad luck in the first half of the game, but now the RNG gods smile upon us: Hammy has built Pyramids in Babylon. We knew for a while already that he was building a wonder (from the espionage screen sabotage costs), but we didn't know whether it was Pyramids or something useless. Hammy learnt feudalism shortly before the attack, but longbows didn't help him much. We attacked on turn 97 with a stack of 8 maces, 2 trebs & 5 cats, supported by 4 airchips. On turn 98 we bombard Babylon's defense down to zero and take it without losses (killing 1 LB, 1 cat, 1 axe, 1 sword). Other events on turns 90-98: get a GProphet in Athens that will be used for a GA later; learn gunpowder, chemistry; Pharsalos settled in east Greenland.

After taking Babylon we stop for a while to chosoe which city to attack next. Two most productive Babylon cities are now Akkad & Dur-K, Akkad has walls, so we choose to go for Dur-K next. It seems that we'll get biology in 6 turns from now, on turn 104. We decide to launch a golden age right after that, this way we'll be able to build NPark in 2 turns (with some outer ring chopping), during golden age we'll adopt religion and switch to ccastes, representation & pacifism (after 5 turns of org. rel. during which we'll spam missionaries). Joao should start talking in 1 turn from now, and we have got the Great Wall from Hammy, so the south is finally safe; should start spamming settlers ASAP to fill it.

Lexad continues playing and captures Dur-K on turn 103, killing 1 LB, 2 XBows, 1 sword & 1 axe; we loose 1 trebuchet. We get a GS in Athens on turn 102, after some calculation we see that if we launch a GA right now, we'll be able to get biology 1 turn sooner, so we launch our first GA & do the revolts as planned, biology is learnt on turn 103, NPark will be built in 2 turns. We settled Ephesus 1N of the cows, which is now safe thanks to GW, we have 1 settler in the south and will found the fish/pigs/clams city in a couple of turns, and we are building more settlers.

Turn 103 (860AD) screenshots: Babylon, north, south. Planned cities are marked with an "X" sign, but we actually settled them in different locations.

08.06

Our next tech goal after biology is assembly line to use "hammer economy" in the final stage of the game, so we decide to learn steam power next, then the economic branch to corporations, then assembly line. We want to extort feudalism which is required for guilds from Hammy. It is time to start building infrastructure everywhere: granaries, lighthouses, forgers, libraries. Courthouses & universities will probably come after factroies & coal plants. Before we planned to build NEpic in the southern city, but since we did get the prophet from Oracle & the artist from music, we don't really need NEpic; and the city will produce mroe beakers as an industrial city with workshops. Dynamic estimates that we should be able to launch on turn 160 or so.

09.06

We consider building Notre Dame for happiness, but it is too expensive without stone, and several AIs have engineering for a while already, so it is also risky.

12.06

OT4E prepairs to take the next session. Dynamuc says that Hammy might get vassalised by Joao if we make peace for feudalism, so he thinks that it would be better to finish off Hammy ASAP instead. But others prefer extorting feudalism from Hammy & dealing with Joao if necessary. OT4E proposes building the Hanging Gardens. The AI apparently didn't build them yet, because they didn't need aqueducts because of enviromentalism; there are still no aqueducts on the map, so it looks safe. After some debate we agree to build aqueduct & HG in Thebes; it won't delay assembly line by more then 1 turn, and the effect is significant with 16 cities. We also consider waiting for assembly line and building HG after that, but we are afraid that Capac who has a size 18 capital will build an aqueduct soon and unlock HG. We discuss IW location. Before we planned to build it in Thebes, but now it seems that Mycaenae (the city we settled to push Hammy culturally) will be a better IW city, because of the levee: all its tile except one are next to a river. Obormot proposes building NEpic in Akkad. We discuss city placement and decide to move our planned iron city 1SW and the clam city on the west coast 1E.

OT4E plays 4 turns up to 920AD (turn 106). We captured Akkad, built NPark in Athens, whcih has almost doubled our research rate. Settled Halicarnassus in the south.

13.06

We decide to use Sparta and Akkad which have enough food, but low production for GP generation. Sparta will get NEpic and will produce ~3 GP, Akkad will produce one more. The capital should produce a huge amount of GSs, the first 1-2 will be settled, after that we'll bulb Printing Press & Astronomy for trade routes.

Bemep plays several turns up to 1000AD (turn 110). We are ready to capture Nippur next turn. We discover steam power and trade for compass and metal casting. Two more cities were settled and Hanging Gardens built.

Screenshots on turn 110 (1000AD):

14.06

Wang Kon has optics for sale, so we decide to buy it from him and bulb astro ASAP for trade routes.

15.06

Now Dynamic thinks we should launch on turn 155. We want to start our triple golden age (28 turns) on turn 125 (2 turns before optimal date if we really launch on turn 155) just in case.

 

[Obormot]

16.06

Dynamic is prepairing to play the next turnset. The goal is to get assembly line ASAP. Depending on how fast Capac (who is the most advanced AI) gets education we'll either take assembly line or industrialism as the free liberalism tech. It seems like using a GM for cash in the incan capital will be better then bulbing with a scientist (the city is size 18, far away and overseas), so we decide to use the economics GM for cash and then produce a substitute GM in Sparta or Akkad. Athens will be producing GSs non-stop now with the NPark, 2 will be used to bulb PP & astronomy, then the next 3 will bulb electricity. Dynamic thinks we might delay finishing off Hammy (after taking Nippur and leaving him with only one city) untill we get rifles, so that we can do it fast and avoid problems with unhappiness in Babylon cities & Joao. The city iotself is of very little value.

17.06

Dynamic starts playing his turnset, 2 turns are played (110-112). We take Nippur and sign peace with Hammy taking feudalism & theology, the stack is sent south for defense against Joao. Astro is bulbed, we get 2 luxes in trades.

18.06

Dynamic says we might be able to launch 1-2 turns earlier, on turn 153-154. We'll have to look at the micromanagement of our GP farms (Athens, Sparta, Akkad) more closely as an extra GP is basicly the only thing that can have a big enough impact at this stage. It looks like Sparta will produce 3 GP easily, but 4 is almost impossible even with extreme starvation. Akkad will produce 1 GP. Athens will produce the rest for a total of 18 GP counting from the start of the game, but without the ones from techs. Maybe it is possible to get one more in capital with brutal starvation (it should be possible to run 40 scientists there loosing 1 citizen per turn). The last GSs should be used on bulbing fission, computers & fiber optics, but they cannot be used once we unlock laser. So really the last turn on which a GS is still usefull is roughly 148. We consider building a galeon and using paratroopers to take some barb cities for cash & luxuries, they can be disconnected as colonies for even more happiness.

Dynamic continues playing up to turn 114 (1080AD). We learn guilds & banking, economics will be done next turn, so we should get the GM. Galeon is built in Dur-K to transport the GM to Cuzco. A frigate is built in Greenland to blockade Atlantis. We built moai in Pharsalos (east Greenland). Our last city is settled on the SW coast.

19.06

We think we might be able to take our Borsippa, Hammy's last city from the sea without the need to wait for rifling, if he moves most LBs out (we saw him move the LBs in and out).

20.06

Dynamic continues playing up to turn 119, 1180AD. We learn economics (get the GM), nationalism, constitution, corporations, liberalism will be learnt next turn and we'll take assembly line for free. Capac learnt education, so we decided it was too risky to try getting a more expensive tech for free. As expected Hammy became Joao's vassal.

21.06

Dynamic thinks we should launch the triple GA on turn 124, not turn 125, in case we manage to launch even earlier. He continues playing up to turn 124. We get assembly line, started railroads. Time to build factories, coal plants & other infrastructure. Southern city will get globe theater (powerfull, but no forests for happiness). Hammy moved all LBs out of Borsippa except one. We attacked from the sea and took the city, Babylon destroyed.

Turn 124 (1280AD) screenshots:

22.06

Looks like there are no major decisions left. We just need to calculate carefully whether which buildings in which cities will have enough time to pay off before the predicted launch date, and build those those buildings, then wealth/research. Capital gets an airport for trade routes and we consider industrial park. Most cities get forge, factory, coal plant, library, university, levee if on river, courthose, odeon/theater if needed for happiness. Weaker cities usualy skip factories, coal plants, universities. No time for airports & harbours even in the best cities except the capital.

Bemep plays next up to turn 127. GA is launched on turn 124. Buildings are built, workers work, cities grow. We learn steel, rifling, start industrialism. Joao didn't even try attacking us and made peace shortly.

23.06

Some discussion about which city builds which part. Obormot calculates that we may indeed get the 19th GP in Athens, but that will require starving 7 citiezens, or 5 if we build industrial park, but (then we might get an engineer instead, that can only be utilised if if born before the last GA starts). The beakers lost because of starvation are almost equal to beakers gained from an extra GS though.

25.06

Dynamic makes another calculation on estimated launch date; it looks like we may win sooner, on turn 151 or even 150.

 

[Obormot]

26.06

After some more discussion about what building each city should get, and whcih should be skipped, Obormot starts plays the next turnset (turns 127-130 are played). We build Tadj Mahal for the second part of our triple GA. Worker improvements are almost done now, we'll start changing the extra farms we built for fast grows to workshops, freezing cities at a constant size. We built Ironworks in Mycaenae, FP in Babylon, discover industrialism. No need to fight for alluminum. We are preparing to take some barb cities for cash; while scouting with the airship we find a stack of 31 barb units (that were paradropped apparently) in Olmec, the barb city near the incas.

27.06

Obormot plays 6 more turns to turn 136 (1460AD). Alluminum is connected, rocketry, combustion and plastics learnt, we build apollo program and start building spaceship parts. We build 3 paratrropers and capture a barb city in Spain for cash. Another GM mission to Cuzco is conducted.

28.06

The final spaceship construction plan is done by Dynamic. The estimated launch date is shifted again, now to turn 150. Getting 19 GPs is now impossible, since we have less time to generate them, but we should be able to launch on turn 150 even with just 18. Dynamic plays 4 turns up to turn 140 (1500AD). We take the other barb city in Europe and put Justinian in charge there. Start prechopping forest for space parts. We learn radio, satellites.

29.06

Two more turns are played. We learn composites.

30.06

It seems like even a 149 turn launch is possible with some brutal starvation. Hopefully we won't get a prophet from Oracle or an artist from NEpic with 4% chance. Dynamic continues playing and stops on turn 146. Our last GPs are scientists, the last is born on turn 145 and we switch to free religion. We discover composites, fission, computers, fiber optics bulbing 5 GSs into these techs. We have a massive overflow because of the bulbing and should get Fusion done in 1 turn. But we are not sure yet whether it is possible to get ecology in 1 turn. We check the MM and it seems possible, even without too much starvation.

01.07

It is done. We learn both fusion and ecology in 1 turn, launch on turn 149, and win on on turn 155. Obormot and Lexad tried to convince Dynamic to build some nukes after launch and drop them on AI capitals, but all he did was building a bunch of silly wonders. Oh well, we'll have fun with nukes in the next game.

Full discussion log in russian is attached.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Perhaps some motivation for you. I was skeptical, thinking that your summary would give an excellent idea of your strategy and progress but lack your debate structure. The first summary page gives both. Looking forward to the next installment.

 

[Obormot]

Summary updated for the next 10 days of discussion.

 

[Obormot]

Update for next 10 days & added pictures to the first two posts.

 

[Obormot]

Updated again.

 

[Obormot]

Updated.

 

[Obormot]

Updated.

 

[Sam_Yeager]

@Obormot - Thank you very much for the summary so far. I've been finding it very interesting. I really hope that you will continue updating the summary.

 

[r_rolo1]

Agreed. Very informative indeed

 

[Obormot]

Didn't expect SGOTM10 so soon. Now everybody is thinking about the new game, so maybe it is too late, but I'll try to finish the summary ASAP. Maybe I'll just make it a bit more brief in the final stage.

 

[r_rolo1]

Well, the next SGOTM will be done with HoF 3.19, that is still in assembly stage... so I think you might have a while to make the full thing