SGOTM 09 - Xteam

[Frederiksberg]

Remember that spreading corporations cost gold!! This means that we must always have some gold (200-300) left after each turn. Argos will produce some from overflow when it's producing chariots and so will Athens when it's producing execs.

 

[leif erikson]

OK, thanks for all your help and advice.

A couple more questions:
We make peace with Shaka this turn? The city we should try to get for peace is Mlambongwenya, with its proximity to Copper, or Hlobane, with its proximity to Gold?

Stalin and Shaka are buddy, buddy. If we make peace with Shaka, I think it likely that Stalin may become the vassal of Shaka. Does this argue against making peace with Shaka?

I think I may fire the game up in a couple of hours, any objections?

 

[ShannonCT]

OK, thanks for all your help and advice.

A couple more questions:
We make peace with Shaka this turn? The city we should try to get for peace is Mlambongwenya, with its proximity to Copper, or Hlobane, with its proximity to Gold?

Stalin and Shaka are buddy, buddy. If we make peace with Shaka, I think it likely that Stalin may become the vassal of Shaka. Does this argue against making peace with Shaka?

I think I may fire the game up in a couple of hours, any objections?

Mlam's copper is probably within the borders of the city to the south so it wouldn't get us copper anyway. Hlobane's gold will take a while to hook. Might as well keep earning us more gold by attacking Zulu cities. One more mining resource probably doesn't make a difference.

Play on whenever you're ready.

 

[leif erikson]

Started up the game and am playing now.

After 2 hours, I didn't get far, but found that we have a little problem. Public Transportation is only giving us +2 health? It gives us 1 for the building plus another for Oil.

Here is the log thus far:

Turn 151 – 1610 AD
Change Spy in Cuzco to Merchant.
Change builds in the following cities:
Athens – Public Transportation
Corinth – Public Transportation
Argos – Harbor
Mycenae – Factory
Pharsalos – Harbor
Ephesus – Harbor
Nippur – Laboratory
Borsippa – Harbor
Cuzco – Harbor
P’yongyang – University
Ondini – Library
eThekwini – Library
Nongoma – Library
Nobamba – Library

Change Civics from Environmentalism to Free Market. Research time to Radio has increased from 1 turn to 2. Checking to see if a change from Wealth to Research can change this back to 1 turn. Change Lisbon from Wealth to Research, Radio due in 1 turn again.

Using Airlift mode, move Std Ethanol Exec to Thebes.
Spread Mining Inc. to Seoul and Babylon.

Capture Barb Worker near Ollantaytambo.

Battle of Bulawayo
Bombard with two Frigates, reduce city to 5%
Paratrooper attacks Musket at 99.2% and kills him, now at 13.9/24
Para attacks LB at 99.2% and kills him, now at 14.6/24.
Para attacks LB at 99.2% and kills him, now at 20.9/24.
A LB and a Horse Archer remain.

Battle of Ulundi
4 Airships reduce the Zulu Paratrooper to 19.2/24.
Promote a Para near Ulundi to Pinch and we are still at only 46.8%.
Promote the Tank to CR1 and we are only at 48.3%.
Decide to await reinforcements.

Airlift a Chariot to kwaDukuza and then jump a Para from kwa to Nobamba and from Nobamba to Ulundi.
Move a Chariot from Sparta to Corinth and then from Corinth to Athens so we can airship next turn.

IBT
A Russian Chariot attacks a Para and dies.
We discover Radio => Fission.
Athens Public Transportation => Grocer.
Delphi Factory => Wealth.
Sparta Mining Inc Exec => Harbor
Corinth Public Transportation => Observatory.
Argos Harbor => Public Transportation
Pharsalos Harbor => Wealth.
Ephesus Harbor => Wealth.
Akkad Std Ethanol Exec => Std Ethanol Exec.
Borsippa Harbor => University
Tiwanaku Forge => University
Cuzco Harbor => Observatory
Lagos Factory => Harbor
Machu Picchu Factory => Harbor
Wonsan Coal Plant => Wealth
Oporto Factory => Wealth
Guimaraes University => Wealth
Braga Library => Harbor
Leiria Factory => Wealth
Namp’o Library => University
Pusan Coal Plant => Wealth
KwaDukuza Forge => Library
Shaka wins election to the Apostolic Palace.

Our Tank and Paratrooper are attacked by Airships near Ulundi.

Turn 152 – 1620 AD
Battle of Yaroslavl
Para attacks LB at 99% and kills him, now at 17.8/24.
Para attacks Xbow at 99.8% and kills him, now at 18.2/24.
Para attacks Sword at 99.5% and kills him, capturing the city and 183 Gold, unit now at 20.9/24. Set production to Library.

Battle of Hlobane
Attack with two Airships.
Para attacks Rifle at 76.7% and kills him, remains at 24/24.
Para attacks Rifle at 90.1% and kills him, now at 11.8 /24.
Para attacks LB at 98.3% and kills him, now at 20.6/24.
A Great General is born in Athens.
Para attacks LB at 99% and kills him, now at 14.6/24.
Para attacks LB at 99.3% and kills him, now at 24/24. We capture the city plus 73 Gold and set production to Library.

Battle of Bulawayo.
Frigate bombards city to 0%.
Use three Airships to strike the defending units.
Para attacks LB at 93.4% and kills him, now at 11.5/24.
Para attacks Horse Archer at 91.9% and kills him, now at 13.9/24.
Para attacks LB at 99.9% and kills him, now at 15.6/24. We capture the city with 224 Gold and set production to Library.

Spread Std Ethanol to Borsippa, Pharsalos and Thebes.
Airlift a Mining Inc Exec to Thebes.
Airlift Chariot to Seoul for MP.
Switch Lisbon from Research to Wealth.


Save is attached.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Too late to look at save long. Game would seem tedious at this stage. Don't envy leif his task.

Doesn't look like we can take Ulundi this turn, so would suggest attacking the two 70% longbows with our two paras that can get a certain promotion (one E of Ulundi, the other S of Bulawayo) and advancing other paras.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Public Transportation is only giving us +2 health? It gives us 1 for the building plus another for Oil.

- there is an error in the in-game Civilopedia then. I suggest we build Grocers instead. Should be good enough in most places even with one less health point.

Change Civics from Environmentalism to Free Market. Research time to Radio has increased from 1 turn to 2. Checking to see if a change from Wealth to Research can change this back to 1 turn. Change Lisbon from Wealth to Research, Radio due in 1 turn again.

What happened is that the base commerce has gone down in many cities due to loss of 2gpt from every windmill. This is only partially compensated by the extra trade route. On the plus side we should have more gold available because we are paying less in corporate maintenance. This should allow us to build science in some cities because they don't have to build wealth.

Argos Harbor => Public Transportation

Change to Grocer.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Too late to look at save long. Game would seem tedious at this stage. Don't envy leif his task.

It's extremely tedious . We might consider playing only 5-6 turns per set to reduce the load on each player. I think we can manage 3 sets in the remaining 19 days we have left.

 

[leif erikson]

- there is an error in the in-game Civilopedia then. I suggest we build Grocers instead. Should be good enough in most places even with one less health point.

It has been very strange! When I checked the Civlopedia over the weekend, I thought it told me +1 health for the building and +1 for Oil. When you posted, I went back to the Civlopedia and I know it said +3 for the building plus 1 for Oil; I double checked it in fact because I couldn't believe it. After they were built last night, the cities were still starving and so I checked again and it was back to +1 and +1.

So, yes, will switch builds to Grocer. That Banana becomes a bit more important now as it means +4 from Grocer instead of +3.

What happened is that the base commerce has gone down in many cities due to loss of 2gpt from every windmill. This is only partially compensated by the extra trade route. On the plus side we should have more gold available because we are paying less in corporate maintenance. This should allow us to build science in some cities because they don't have to build wealth.

Yes, it was very close. The difference was around 75 to 80 beakers. After this current turn, we'll have more cities on Wealth and should be able to run research in more cities. Also have been spread Std Ethanol, which adds about 25 or so beakers per city.

Doesn't look like we can take Ulundi this turn, so would suggest attacking the two 70% longbows with our two paras that can get a certain promotion (one E of Ulundi, the other S of Bulawayo) and advancing other paras.

As I awake this morning, I am questioning whether we should try to take Ulundi at all? It is now at 100% culture. We now have unhappy cities due to War Weariness and we are approaching the domination limit. Perhaps we should take Vladivostok from Russia and then make peace. We should be able to support ourselves with Wealth building and Research building in our cities, not needing the Gold from conquest in a turn or two, especially if we get our unhappy citizens back to work.

Too late to look at save long. Game would seem tedious at this stage. Don't envy leif his task.

It's extremely tedious . We might consider playing only 5-6 turns per set to reduce the load on each player. I think we can manage 3 sets in the remaining 19 days we have left.

Yes, it is tedious because of the detail and the changes that affect other things. I went through our cities three times before changing turns last night. I mm'ed Nippur to get its build in one turn, only to realize that messed up the GP farm in Babylon. So I decided I'd better check them all again. Especially for me, as a limited talent mm'er ...

 

[Frederiksberg]

Some MM options: Khangela - 2 artists is enough so 2 floodplains can be worked, Nongoma should work both dyes, Corinth can be MM'ed to grow in 1 turn. And don't forget to micro Ondini when it expands borders next turn. Nippur will have a large overflow next turn so it should NOT build wealth. Rather a Mining Inc exec.

I'm inclined to continue the attack on Ulundi. Not now, but next turn. Follow CP's suggestion and kill the two longbows outside Ulundi. Remeber to use a paratrooper that can earn a promotion from attacking the longbow. Paradrop the two units in Nobamba and to replace them use the paratrooper in Nongoma (doesn't need protection right now). After Ulundi we need to capture uMgungundlova also in order to get rid of annoying cultural pressure.

Perhaps we should gift Yaroslavl to Justinian now so that we can move all paratroopers out of the city and continue the attack on Vladivostok.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I think we should postpone the grocer in Argos and build some badly needed chariot MP's.

We are not meeting the goal of producing at least 2 SE execs and 1 MI exec every turn. Suggest we build SE exec in Pharsalos and Borsippa and MI exec in Braga. Next turn they can perhaps return to originally scheduled build. Let's try to put focus on spreading these corporations!

Opporto and Braga can be MM'ed for more hammers.

Why not start the next GA? So that we don't have to fin a way to select the correct Great Persons.

 

[leif erikson]

As always, Thanks.

Loading game to continue.

 

[leif erikson]

Shaka is building Paratroopers in Ulundi and it looks like he is building one per turn as he is in Slavery and can pop rush.
He currently has two Paratroopers in Ulundi, along with 2 Rifles, 2 War Elephants, 2 Horse Archers a LB and a Treb.

EDIT:
Just ran 4 air strikes with Airships. Best odds we can get are 20%, most are at 10 or less.
If we want to take it, I think we need either more Cannons or Bombers. How bad do we want it?

Would you like a save?

 

[Cactus Pete]

Can't give much specific advice on Ulundi without seeing a save, but would blindly ask whether it isn't worth a try this turn. We can always get peace or a cease fire if the attack fails. Presume longbows were upgraded to rifles. Are there more around? Also, would like to know how many additional units can be brought to bear quickly if attack postponed.

 

[leif erikson]

Can't give much specific advice on Ulundi without seeing a save, but would blindly ask whether it isn't worth a try this turn. We can always get peace or a cease fire if the attack fails. Presume longbows were upgraded to rifles. Are there more around? Also, would like to know how many additional units can be brought to bear quickly if attack postponed.

Rather have you look at the save, it is attached. I have already attacked the units in Ulundi with available Airships.

 

[ShannonCT]

I say go for it. We've got 10 units that can attack this turn that should at least be able to kill the 2 paratroopers and 2 riflemen. Jump 1 para each from Nobamba and Bulawayo so we can capture Ulundi next turn. Bulawayo can be gifted to Justinian next turn after the airships there have done a bombing run (airships get teleported out of a gifted city). With Ulundi captured, we can get control of the bananas. If the attack fails, just make peace.

Justinian has new gold and iron that we can demand.

 

[leif erikson]

Getting tired enough to start making mistakes.

We have Ulundi, cost us five Paratroopers.

The continued Log:

Load game to continue.

Move Para’s to attack Vladivostok.
Trireme moves to attack Barb Galley at 98.1% and sinks it, now 1.4/2.
Spread Std Ethanol in Delphi.
Fly our Great General to Nobamaba.

Jump our two Para’s from Hlobane to threaten Mlambongwenya.

OK, Battle of Ulundi continues:
Para attacks Shaka Para at 8.9% and dies, doing no damage.
Pinch promoted Para attacks Shaka Para at 20.3% and dies, reducing enemy Para to 8.2/24.
Para attacks second Shaka Para at 18% and dies, reducing him to 3.4/24.
Para attacks Rifle (CG2) at 50% and dies, Rifle at 4.9/14.
Para attacks Rifle at 52% and kills him, now at 4.1/24.
Para attacks Para at 96.2% and kills him with no loss.
Para attacks LB at 99.5% and kills him, now at 17.8/24.
Para attacks War Elephant at 98.3% and kills him, now at 20.4/24.
Tank attacks Rifle at 95.4% and kills him, now at 3.6/28 but gets a promo next turn.
Para attacks War Elephant at 85.3% and dies, leaving Elephant at 1.3/8.

Jump in reserve units for next turn.
Check cities for mm.

Here we go:
IBT
Wonsan’s water supply is poisoned.
Shaka attacks with 2 Caravels near Bulawayo and they both die.
We discover Fission => Computers
Athens Std Ethanol Exec. => SS Thrusters
Piraeus Observatory => Harbor.
Sparta Std Ethanol Exec. => Std Ethanol Exec.
Corinth Laboratory => SS Thrusters
Argos Chariot => Chariot.
Mycenae Factory => Wealth.
Pharsalos Std Ethanol Exec. => Grocer.
Nippur Mining Inc Exec. => Mining Inc Exec.
Borsippa University => Wealth.
Sippar Apollo => Grocer.
Machu Picchu Harbor => Coal Plant.
Seoul Grocer => Coal Plant.
Braga Harbor => Wealth.
Namp’o University => Wealth.
kwaDukuza University => Wealth.
Nongoma Library => Wealth.

Turn 154 – 1640 AD
We are currently making 29 gpt with 1125 Gold in the Treasury.

Take a look at Ulundi and it contains Paratrooper (promoted with Pinch) at 18.7/24, War Elephant at 1.3/8, three Horse Archers at full strength and a Trebuchet.
Let’s let the Airships strike and see what happens.
The first six attack Horse Archers, the last 2 attack the Trebuchet.
All we have to do is overcome this Paratrooper and we will have the city.
Para attacks Shaka’s Para at 10.9% and kills him, now at 6/24!
Para attacks HA at 99.9% and kills him, now at 22.1/24.
Para attacks HA at 99.3% and dies, HA left at 0.8/6, just got paid back.
Para attacks HA at 99.9% and kills him, now at 21.4/24.
Para attacks Treb at 94.94.8% and kills him without loss, still at 7.7/24.
Tank attacks WE at 99.9% and kills him without loss, now at 15.7/28.
Tank attacks HA at 99.9% and kills him without loss, taking the city and 176 Gold. Set production to Library.
Move remaining Para’s into city to defend it.
Jump in Para’s from Bulawayo and turn city over to Justinian. Airship go to Ulundi.

Move Para’s from Hlobane to Khangela for movement to Ulundi to attack Mgungundlova.

Spread Std Ethanol to Mycenae and Piraeus.
Mining Inc Exec. Goes to Sparta for Air Transport to Thebes.
Gift captured Barb Worker toAsoka.

Wonsan is starving, so change from Wealth to Grocer.

Battle of Vladivostok.
Para attacks LB at 99% and kills him with no loss.
Para attacks LB at 99% and kills him, now at 17.8/24.
Para attacks Xbow at 99.8% and kills him, now at 18.2/24.
A Sword, Airship and Galley remain in the city.

Visit with Justinian and trade him one of our 4 Uranium for Iron and Gold.
Change build in Dur-… from Wealth to Research.

Stop, Save and post for the night. Time for
Save attached.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Stay with it, leif.

Looks like Stalin will take Smolensk from Justinian IBT. Are there any adverse consequences to that?

Might consider getting out of WW and just going after the barb cities at this point.

BTW, do we still have a chance for a laurel?

 

[ShannonCT]

BTW, do we still have a chance for a laurel?

Depends on how many turns after their last posted save CFR and Murky played. We'll at least be within a few turns of them.

Leif, looking good.

Some suggestions:

1) You can build more research since we'll be making cash from overflow in various cities. The goal is to finish the last tech in ~11 turns.

2) Don't build any thrusters yet. Keep research as high as possible, at least 4000bpt. The best way to finish space race is to wait to build cheap SS parts until the last few turns. We can build some workshops over forests now while building wealth/research and cash the hammers in as SS parts later. Any city that has enough food can replace some lumbermills/preserves with workshops.

3) Make peace with Shaka. Getting rid of some WW is more valuable than anything we could capture now.

4) Make peace with Stalin after capturing Vladivostok.

5) Grow Corinth and Sippar quickly. Build the necessary health buildings there. We want these cities as big as possible.

6) Build a factory in Babylon before the observatory/lab. You can fire some specialists now. Babylon is a good place to build workshops over preserves and store hammers while building research.

 

[Cactus Pete]

"We can build some workshops over forests now while building wealth/research and cash the hammers in as SS parts later." Please clarify, SCT. Do we reserve and then cash hammers by not completing the workshop and the chop until spaceship part is being built or can we go ahead and improve to a workshop but the hammers remain in reserve as long as we're building wealth or science?

 

[leif erikson]

Some suggestions:

1) You can build more research since we'll be making cash from overflow in various cities. The goal is to finish the last tech in ~11 turns.

OK. I'll try to run enough research so that the treasury dwindles. Do we need Gold for anything later, besides spreading Corporations?

2) Don't build any thrusters yet. Keep research as high as possible, at least 4000bpt. The best way to finish space race is to wait to build cheap SS parts until the last few turns. We can build some workshops over forests now while building wealth/research and cash the hammers in as SS parts later. Any city that has enough food can replace some lumbermills/preserves with workshops.

I was wondering about that. Building Workshops over forests will remove the forest. In order to save those hammers, the city must be building Wealth or Research, correct?

3) Make peace with Shaka. Getting rid of some WW is more valuable than anything we could capture now.

I like this idea. WW is biting into everything I try to do and is costing us both hammers and Gold.

4) Make peace with Stalin after capturing Vladivostok.

I have to check the save. I think that will mean next turn for Stalin. As CP pointed out, Smolensk may fall in the IBT?

5) Grow Corinth and Sippar quickly. Build the necessary health buildings there. We want these cities as big as possible.

OK. The question is how much more can we expect them to grow in 11 or 12 turns? I can maximize food and health.

6) Build a factory in Babylon before the observatory/lab. You can fire some specialists now. Babylon is a good place to build workshops over preserves and store hammers while building research.

Do you mean to pre-chop the forests and complete that once we turn Babylon on to Wealth or Research? The Workers now are pre-building Lumbermills. Do you mean to switch that to pre-building Workshops so that the forest cuts happen upon completion of the workshop and we have instant access to the Workshop?
Sorry, but I am a bit over what would be best...

What CP said...

EDIT -
Looking things over, the trade of Smolensk for Vladivostok looks like a good one to me?
We gain Corn, Iron and Coal in exchange for Wheat and Ivory.