SGOTM 09 - Xteam

ShannonCT · Jul 10, 2009

Frederiksberg said:
Why? Standard Ethanol is profitable if it's spread with 4 turns or more to the end of research. With 8 turns left it seems that there is enough time to get a few more out.

Conquering barb cities can be done in parallel to the other activities so why not continue?

OK, maybe a couple more turns of ethanol.

I think it will be more profitable to delete paratroopers and airships than to pay maintenance and supply to attempt to kill all the rifles defending barb cities.

leif erikson · Jul 10, 2009

Thanks again for all the suggestions. Firing up again...

leif erikson · Jul 11, 2009

We have completed Fusion and have Satellites in the queue due in 1 turn.
We received both a Great Engineer (in Athens) and a Great Scientist (in Babylon)

Log follows:
Reload Game and continue playing.

Change build in kwaDukuza from Wealth to Hermitage.
Fire Artists in Khangela.

IBT
Sparta Std Ethanol Exec. => Research.
Argos Chariot => Chariot.
Sippar Aqueduct => Observatory.
Seoul Granary => Observatory.
Khangela Courthouse => Wealth.
Ondini Library => Research.
Babanango Library => Research. Fire Artists and hire Scientists.

Turn 156 1655 AD
Change build in kwaDukuza from Hermitage to Research.
Change build in Machu Picchu from Research to Hermitage.
Fly Std Ethanol Exec. To kwaDukuza and Cuzco.
Spread Mining Inc. to Thebes.
Spread Std Ethanol to Ephesus.
Change build in Sparta to Std Ethanol Exec.

Jump Paras in near Vandal.

Change civics to Representation and Free Religion.

IBT
A Barb Galleys move NW out of Atlantis.
We discover Fiber Optics => Fusion (due in 1 turn)
Sparta Std. Ethanol Exec. => Research.
Argos Chariot => Chariot.
Babylon Factory => Laboratory.
Sippar Observatory => Laboratory.
Seoul Observatory => Laboratory.
eThekwini Library => Research.
Shaka has proposed a resolution in the Apostolic Palace that eThekwini be given back to him. Decide to defy resolution.

Turn 157 1660 AD
A Paratrooper has shown itself in Atlantis. :eek:

We sink the Barb Galley.
Move more Paras to Vandal area.
Spread Std Ethanol to kwaDukuza, Cuzco and Lagos.
Change build in Sparta, Lagos and Pharsalos to Std Ethanol Exec.
Change build of Hermitage from Machu Picchu to Pusan.

Been marking pre-chopped forests on the map.

IBT
Asoka calls and wants to trade World Maps, sure.
We have entered the Future Age!
We discover Fusion => Satellites.
Piraeus Harbor => Research.
Sparta Std Ethanol Exec. => Research.
Argos Chariot => Chariot.
Pharsalos Std Ethanol Exec. => Research.
Babylon Laboratory => Research.
Tiwanaku University => Research.
Sippar Laboratory => Research.
Lagos Std Ethanol Exec. => Std Ethanol Exec.
Seoul Laboratory => Research.
Vote in the Apostolic Palace fails.
A Great Engineer is born in Athens.
A Great Scientist is born in Babylon.

Turn 158 1665 AD
Spread Std Ethanol to Seoul and Lisbon. It fails to spread to Leiria. :rolleyes:

Jump Paras into Vandal area.
Change build in Lisbon from Research to Std Ethanol Exec.
Change build in Pusan from Hermitage to Research.
Change build in Delphi from Wealth to Hermitage.
Trade Hit Musicals to Justinian for Iron and 7 gpt.

Stop, Save and post.
Save is attached.

Frederiksberg · Jul 11, 2009

Good progress.

Perhaps we should pause for a while. There are only 5 turns of research left and we have to go over SCT's plan for the space parts and verify that we can get the parts built as planned and that we have the workers available to do the chops required.

We don't need any more SE execs. And keep the science slider at 100%. This is mandatory. It's better to build gold to maintain science rate at 100% than to build science because we have multipliers in most cities that increase the value of the commerce when they are converted to beakers.

Can we get our GG to Vandal somehow? Don't expect any more battles anyway.

I think we should airlift our GMerchant and do a trade mission. Which city is best: Ollantaytambo, Yaroslavl or Halicarnassus?

There are quite a few cities that can be MM'ed for more beakers by taking citizens off low yield tiles and hiring scientists (or merchants) instead.

leif erikson · Jul 11, 2009

Frederiksberg said:
Perhaps we should pause for a while. There are only 5 turns of research left and we have to go over SCT's plan for the space parts and verify that we can get the parts built as planned and that we have the workers available to do the chops required.

I agree. Should probably turn the game over to CP.

Frederiksberg said:
We don't need any more SE execs. And keep the science slider at 100%. This is mandatory. It's better to build gold to maintain science rate at 100% than to build science because we have multipliers in most cities that increase the value of the commerce when they are converted to beakers.

That would be fine. It has been the overflow turned into Gold that has kept us going. Even though we have been running -500 to -600 gpt, we have actually been losing between 100 and 150 gpt from the Treasury. That's why so many cities are able to run research.

Frederiksberg said:
Can we get our GG to Vandal somehow? Don't expect any more battles anyway.

There are several Galleons headed that way. I have been running Workers back to our continent.

Frederiksberg said:
I think we should airlift our GMerchant and do a trade mission. Which city is best: Ollantaytambo, Yaroslavl or Halicarnassus?

Interesting idea. Moving him to Athens or Sparta, we can fly him to where we want him if it is our city, or near the city we want to use him in.

I was surprised we got a Great Engineer. :eek:

It is better then 2 Scientists.

Frederiksberg said:
There are quite a few cities that can be MM'ed for more beakers by taking citizens off low yield tiles and hiring scientists (or merchants) instead.

I'm sure.

My apologies, I have been trying to get mm done before saving. I was very tired by that time and I was having troubles with a computer that seemed about to crash, so I decided to save the game and look at it later, when I could see straight... :mischief:

Frederiksberg · Jul 11, 2009

leif erikson said:
I'm sure.

My apologies, I have been trying to get mm done before saving. I was very tired by that time and I was having troubles with a computer that seemed about to crash, so I decided to save the game and look at it later, when I could see straight...

No need for apologies. It's anyway a minor thing and something for the next player to look into with fresh eyes.

leif erikson · Jul 11, 2009

I've uploaded the save through the submissions system and it can be found <<<HERE>>>

Roster:
Cactus Pete - UP
ShannonCT - On Deck
Frederiksberg
leif - resting my eyes...

PaulisKhan - hope all goes well with your move :thumbsup:

Grover22 - Ticking up the participation! :cheers:

rrau - How are you doing? :dunno:

DJMGator13 - Where is The Gator :scan:

I'll write something up this evening to try to help CP understand what I've done and what is going on. :crazyeye:

leif erikson · Jul 11, 2009

Info from the in game log (part 1 - turns 151 to 153):

Spoiler :

leif erikson · Jul 11, 2009

Info from the in-game log (part 2 - turns 154 to 158):

Spoiler :

ShannonCT · Jul 11, 2009

Thanks for the hard work Leif.

Here's what needs to be done now:

Run GM trade mission somewhere
Use other 3 GPs to start a golden age (clearly we should have started golden ages sooner)
MM cities to work scientists instead of coast (starvation is ok)
Research Satellites, Composites, Genetics, Ecology in 1 turn each hopefully

Start SS parts as follows:

Athens Engine with 1 chop - start T160
Corinth Engine - start T160
Sippar Docking Bay - start T160
Sippar Life Support with 2 chops - start T162
Braga Thruster - start now
Oporto Thruster with 4 chops - start T159
Coimbra Casing - start T160
Leiria Thruster - start now
Lisbon Casing with 6 chops - start T161
Wonsan Casing - start T160
Mycenae Thruster - start now
Pharsalos Casing - start T160
Nippur Thruster - start T159
Babylon Cockpit with 11 chops - start T161
Cuzco Casing with 5 chops - start T160
Seoul Stasis Chamber with 13 chops - start T162

Be sure to maximize hammers when cities are building SS parts by working the highest hammer tiles and using engineer specialists. Chop all forests on T162 except where we have enough worker turns to build a workshop over a forest. We need to get one worker to the Athens area from the Babylon area or Africa. Otherwise, there are enough workers near cities that need chops.

After SS launch, the only things to do are make sure that our capital doesn't get captured and that we don't go over the domination limit.

leif erikson · Jul 11, 2009

ShannonCT said:
Thanks for the hard work Leif.

Thanks for hanging in with me. Without you guys, I could never have done it! :cheers:

ShannonCT said:
MM cities to work scientists instead of coast (starvation is ok)

In cities with Library and University, I found that a coast tile with 3 commerce was equivalent in beakers to working a Scientist? In cities that are about to grow, we could keep working those 3 commerce coastal tiles?

ShannonCT said:
Research Satellites, Composites, Genetics, Ecology in 1 turn each hopefully

Overflow will, hopefully, help us to do this. Keep cities on research as much as possible without going below 100% research to keep beaker production high. As we stop production of units and executives, we'll need to watch the gpt closer. I was pretty amazed by how much gold was produced in this way. :shifty:

ShannonCT said:
After SS launch, the only things to do are make sure that our capital doesn't get captured and that we don't go over the domination limit.

iirc, we have about a 8 to 10% cushion at present.

Nice work on the parts schedule SCT. :goodjob:

Cactus Pete · Jul 11, 2009

Appreciate your efforts, leif. Guess the ball is in my court now.

SS parts timeline certainly makes my task simpler, but will ask for everyone's patience, as I've limited discretionary time and work on a plan may span several days. Further input is, of course, welcome.

One question from reading leif's posts: When and where should I complete The Hermitage?

Frederiksberg · Jul 11, 2009

This was the original plan:

Frederiksberg said:
Suggest we build Hermitage for one turn in each of the following cities to take advantage of stored (and otherwise lost) overflow and double production speed w. marble:

kwaDukuza
Macchu Picchu
Pusan
Delphi
Leiria

And then build it in Nippur to cash in

But now that Leiria and Nippur are assigned to building space parts we must either finish Hermitage in Delphi or find other cities where we can put some hammers into it.

Let's take the necessary time to plan this turn set well. No need to rush with 16 days left to the deadline.

leif erikson said:
In cities with Library and University, I found that a coast tile with 3 commerce was equivalent in beakers to working a Scientist? In cities that are about to grow, we could keep working those 3 commerce coastal tiles?

I think this must have been before the switch to Representation.

ShannonCT said:
Argos Casing - start T160

It would be nice to find an alternative solution here since it's much more efficient to keep building chariots for the overflow. And we may need the gold since our beaker production will be reduced when so many cities are switching to producing space parts.

ShannonCT · Jul 11, 2009

leif erikson said:
In cities with Library and University, I found that a coast tile with 3 commerce was equivalent in beakers to working a Scientist? In cities that are about to grow, we could keep working those 3 commerce coastal tiles?

Representation makes scientists worth 6 beakers now.

Cactus Pete said:
One question from reading leif's posts: When and where should I complete The Hermitage?

I believe you need to set it to complete IBT 159-160 because we won't get the cash until IBT 160-161 and T161 is the last turn we can use the cash. ~~The completing build should be in a high base hammer city like Corinth.~~ Complete it somewhere that's not going to build SS parts. I've calculated build times based on the currently listed overflow and I don't think we should screw with that.

ShannonCT · Jul 11, 2009

Frederiksberg said:
It would be nice to find an alternative solution here since it's much more efficient to keep building chariots for the overflow. And we may need the gold since our beaker production will be reduced when so many cities are switching to producing space parts.

OK, will switch Argos to Wonsan.

I've calculated that we'll have no problem completing the 4 remaining techs in 4 turns even with hammers lost to SS parts:

We need ~22500 more beakers
We make ~6300 beakers this turn
We make ~6200 beakers next turn
We make ~4800 beakers each of the final 2 turns
We can get another 1000+ beakers because of the trade mission
That adds up to 23100+ beakers. Multiply that by the 1.2 prereq bonus, and you get 27,700+. That's a nice big cushion.

The sole focus of CP's next 5 turns should be getting the SS parts built according to schedule. No reason to agonize over irrelevant minutiae.

Frederiksberg · Jul 11, 2009

ShannonCT said:
I believe you need to set it to complete IBT 159-160 because we won't get the cash until IBT 160-161 and T161 is the last turn we can use the cash. ~~The completing build should be in a high base hammer city like Corinth.~~ Complete it somewhere that's not going to build SS parts. I've calculated build times based on the currently listed overflow and I don't think we should screw with that.

I think Akkad would be a good place to finish Hermitage because it can be done with virtually no overflow. So build it for one turn in Delphi then take it off the queue there and let it finish in Akkad.

Cactus Pete · Jul 11, 2009

Frederiksberg said:
I think Akkad would be a good place to finish Hermitage because it can be done with virtually no overflow. So build it for one turn in Delphi then take it off the queue there and let it finish in Akkad.

Then, that is the tentative plan.

"The sole focus of CP's next 5 turns should be getting the SS parts built according to schedule. No reason to agonize over irrelevant minutiae." That's most comforting, but perhaps we should agonize a little bit on how I might screw it up.

ShannonCT · Jul 11, 2009

Cactus Pete said:
That's most comforting, but perhaps we should agonize a little bit on how I might screw it up.

Ways to screw things up:

1) Chopping a forest before T162 without leaving a workshop underneath. Cities that are building SS parts for 3-5 turns may need the extra hammers from a lumbermill/workshop on the turns prior to the chop.

2) Not maximizing hammers when a city starts building a SS part. Some cities that will be building SS parts might not be working their highest hammer tiles right now (e.g., Sippar, Cuzco). Some cities may need to work hammer tiles currently being used by other cities (e.g., Cuzco). Also, some cities can increase their hammers by hiring engineer specialists. Be sure to MM a city when it starts building a SS part and also after any chopping.

3) Having a chop go to the wrong city. Some cities building SS parts have forests overlapping with other cities, which may be currently using their forests. I've listed the number of chops that need to go to each city. Specifically, make sure Sippar gets 2 chops and Lisbon gets 6.

Given the large cushion we have in getting research finished in 4 turns, I'll change the schedule so that any potentially tricky builds are completed 1 turn early, despite the elegance of having every SS part but one finish on the launch turn.

It looks to me like we have enough workers to get all necessary chops done, but there's no harm in building more in any city that's not scheduled to build an SS part. We have plenty of hammers/beakers to spare. Just don't build one in any SS city because it might change the overflow.

leif erikson · Jul 11, 2009

A question:
Since we have all the Great People we need, and we'll have our research done before the last turn, would it be of any help to, in the last turn, to change to Slavery and Universal Suffrage to guarantee the completion of the last build?

Also, and thankfully I got the save uploaded before the end, my gaming rig seems to have died. I think it is the onboard sound? So, I cannot look at the save to write anything up for CP. It looks like you've covered most of it anyway.

On chopping, please be careful because it now requires two turns to chop a forest and it is easy to miss a Worker. I was going to use the global keyboard command to stop all Worker actions at the end of the turn but decided I would have trouble remembering which Worker was assigned to do what, as there are so many of them. Also, watch for roads as some tiles are not roaded and you lose a turn to move onto the tile before you can chop.

Thanks for setting the Scientist beaker count straight, I was talking about pre-Representation. :blush:

Frederiksberg · Jul 12, 2009

leif erikson said:
A question:
Since we have all the Great People we need, and we'll have our research done before the last turn, would it be of any help to, in the last turn, to change to Slavery and Universal Suffrage to guarantee the completion of the last build?

I don't think space parts can be hurried, so it's no use to change civics.

leif erikson said:
On chopping, please be careful because it now requires two turns to chop a forest and it is easy to miss a Worker. I was going to use the global keyboard command to stop all Worker actions at the end of the turn but decided I would have trouble remembering which Worker was assigned to do what, as there are so many of them. Also, watch for roads as some tiles are not roaded and you lose a turn to move onto the tile before you can chop.

So I guess that CP should do the global cancellation of worker actions before pressing enter. What is the key combination? The point is, that if it's not done we risk that some forests are chopped in the IBT.

The forests labelled "prechopped" are they only chopped or have you prebuilt workshops there?

SGOTM 09 - Xteam

Deity

Game of the Month Fanatic

Game of the Month Fanatic

Deity

Game of the Month Fanatic

Deity

Game of the Month Fanatic

Game of the Month Fanatic

Game of the Month Fanatic

Deity

Game of the Month Fanatic

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Game of the Month Fanatic

Deity

Similar threads