SGOTM 09 - Xteam

[leif erikson]

I don't think space parts can be hurried, so it's no use to change civics.

Wish I could give it a try and test it.

So I guess that CP should do the global cancellation of worker actions before pressing enter. What is the key combination? The point is, that if it's not done we risk that some forests are chopped in the IBT.

I couldn't find it and decided against it anyway.

The forests labelled "prechopped" are they only chopped or have you prebuilt workshops there?

The forests marked prechopped have 1 turn remaining until the forest is cleared.

In the others, Workshops are being built. I decided to have the workers directly build the Workshops for two reasons:
1. The chops needed to be delayed until the city was either building Research ro Wealth in order for the hammers from the chops to be saved for the various space parts.
2. I wanted the tiles to be ready to work as soon as the chop took place. That way we could use the hammers produced by the Lumber Mills right up to the point where the chop occurred.

There is not enough food in many of the cities to run all Workshops, so I tried to balance the Workshops versus Lumber Mills to maximize the hammer output and leave the 1 turn chops until the last turn to "surge" hammers to get the SS parts completed where that is necessary.

Athens Engine with 1 chop - start T160
Sippar Docking Bay - start T160
Sippar Life Support with 2 chops - start T162

Babylon Cockpit with 11 chops - start T161

Seoul Stasis Chamber with 13 chops - start T162

Sippar is building two parts. The second requires the chops, so we should make sure no forests will be chopped while it builds Wealth or Research as those would go to the first part and not the second.

In Babylon, there are Workers building Workshops. As long as Babylon keeps building Research or Wealth, it won't matter as the chops remain in waiting.

Seoul is doing the same, there are Workers building Workshops. The chops will remain available as long as we don't build anything else in the city.

SCT's schedule is very good because it doesn't require a lot of multiple parts being built in the same cities.

Back to searching through Motherboards...

 

[Frederiksberg]

I notice that Sippar can be MM'ed to grow in two turns. After that MM for hammers as SCT suggests.

We can trade sheep for silk with Shaka.

Some of the paratroopers outside vandal have moved this turn and can't attack so perhaps we should wait one turn. The top defender is nasty with guerilla 2 and CD2 but the others seem easier to handle.

 

[leif erikson]

Some of the paratroopers outside vandal have moved this turn and can't attack so perhaps we should wait one turn. The top defender is nasty with guerilla 2 and CD2 but the others seem easier to handle.

Yes, some were move there in the current turn.

The last thing I wanted to do was leave some Rifles that could be promoted against our incoming reinforcements.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Gypsy Kings have finished as well. It means that all our close competitors are now done. It's impossible to guess where we will be placed. It can be anywhere between 2nd and 5th!! Really close competition this time.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Finally have a chance to look at the save. Will post some thoughts/questions before retiring.

All the input is appreciated.

 

[Skade]

non relevant lurker post relating to the issues leif reported with public transportation.

Public Transportation 150
Req. Combustion
+1 health
+1 health from oil
+2 health with Environmentalism

I wonder if the civilopedia while you were running environmentalism included the extra +2 for you and now it does not. (would have been nice for it to indicate this)

 

[Cactus Pete]

Makes sense to me, Skade.

For discussion:


SE executive in Athens to Leira next turn? Should I build Ethanol executives in Lagos and Lisbon, and, if so, where should they be sent? In both cases, there are nearby cities that are executive deprived. Also, does the executive in Namp’o go there next turn?

How do I start a GA without using the GM? I can get him to Sparta this turn, and would think his airlift would be more important than a chariot’s next turn. Since we don’t have Open Borders with either Shaka or Stalin, where do we send the GM? (BTW, could we use the GM for the GA and the GE to speed a spaceship part, if we were short of hammers?)

Am I correct that (after swapping some coastal tiles for specialists and possibly taking Vandal [What to do with it?]) I should now set the slider at 100% science and switch from research to wealth in enough cities to avoid red type?

I see no good reason not to attack Vandal now. If we win 4 out of ten of the initial battles against rifles (which is a conservative expectation), that will leave us eight units to finish off the spearman and the six wounded rifles. We might not succeed, but with fresh units available next turn (not to mention wounded units, some of which we will be able to promote), don’t see how we fail to take the city. (BTW, for my own entertainment, I may try to take Atlantis, as deleting units does not seem necessary.)

“It's better to build gold to maintain science rate at 100% than to build science because we have multipliers in most cities that increase the value of the commerce when they are converted to beakers.” Fred, I’m not seeing this hammer multiplication for wealth or research. Would you point to a city as an example.

Will look at workers tomorrow. (I have no idea how to cancel all their actions.)

 

[Frederiksberg]

SE executive in Athens to Leira next turn? Should I build Ethanol executives in Lagos and Lisbon, and, if so, where should they be sent? In both cases, there are nearby cities that are executive deprived. Also, does the executive in Namp’o go there next turn?

I think Knossos is the best city for the SE exec in Athens (don't have the game available so please check) since it has many beaker multipliers. Don't build any more SE execs (cancel builds) there is not time enough left for them to earn back the gold and hammers spent in spreading the corporation. Executive in Namp'o should spread SE there.

How do I start a GA without using the GM? I can get him to Sparta this turn, and would think his airlift would be more important than a chariot’s next turn. Since we don’t have Open Borders with either Shaka or Stalin, where do we send the GM? (BTW, could we use the GM for the GA and the GE to speed a spaceship part, if we were short of hammers?)

I don't know the optimal place to do the trade mission, but I would suggest to airlift the GM to Asoka's capital and do it there. You have time to do this before the current GA ends so there won't be any problems with triggering the next one (just wait until after the trade mission is completed). I don't think a GE can build space parts, he can only hurry a building.

Am I correct that (after swapping some coastal tiles for specialists and possibly taking Vandal [What to do with it?]) I should now set the slider at 100% science and switch from research to wealth in enough cities to avoid red type?

Science slider should be set to 100% and then enough cities should produce wealth to keep the deficit below the available gold in the treasury. We get gold every turn from overflow so it's OK to use up the gold in the treasury. Vandal will probably not come out of revolt before the game is over so it's not important what you do. Perhaps it's easier to gift it to Justinian immediately and then forget about it.

(BTW, for my own entertainment, I may try to take Atlantis, as deleting units does not seem necessary.)

If you do, remember to use the GG to get amphibious promotions for some of the units.

“It's better to build gold to maintain science rate at 100% than to build science because we have multipliers in most cities that increase the value of the commerce when they are converted to beakers.” Fred, I’m not seeing this hammer multiplication for wealth or research. Would you point to a city as an example.

The short story is that we have beaker multipliers in most cities and commerce multipliers in very few thus building wealth to keep the science slider at 100% take advantage of these bonuses. Or you could say that decreasing the science slider to increase gpt is an expensive way to generate gold. Remember that when building wealth or science only the production modifiers come into play.

 

[leif erikson]

How do I start a GA without using the GM? I can get him to Sparta this turn, and would think his airlift would be more important than a chariot’s next turn. Since we don’t have Open Borders with either Shaka or Stalin, where do we send the GM? (BTW, could we use the GM for the GA and the GE to speed a spaceship part, if we were short of hammers?)

When starting a Golden Age, the Great People used are the ones closest to one another, physically on the map, of the type needed. As long as The Great Merchant is not stacked with the others, you shouldn't have a problem.

As Fred says, the Great Merchant should be used, or very far away, by the time you need to start the next GA.

Am I correct that (after swapping some coastal tiles for specialists and possibly taking Vandal [What to do with it?]) I should now set the slider at 100% science and switch from research to wealth in enough cities to avoid red type?

I tracked this a bit during my set.
In one instance, there was 1151 Gold in the Treasury and the game indicated we were losing 619 GPT. At he start of the next turn, we had 1001 Gold in the Treasury, an actual loss of 150 Gold. We had gained 469 Gold in overflow during the IBT. Not usre what the overflows are now as we change some builds, but it is probably close.

This is why it is important to build Chariots in Argos! Nice overflow.
I sure need to learn how to use overflow, it has been pretty powerful in this game.

“It's better to build gold to maintain science rate at 100% than to build science because we have multipliers in most cities that increase the value of the commerce when they are converted to beakers.” Fred, I’m not seeing this hammer multiplication for wealth or research. Would you point to a city as an example.

Found that building Wealth, coupled with overflow, was important to keep the treasury in the plus numbers. Once we are at 100% research, we can't go any higher, so it was converting hammers to beakers, building research, that made the difference.

Will look at workers tomorrow. (I have no idea how to cancel all their actions.)

Canceling their actions may not be the best course as one has to remember what each was doing. The game makes it difficult because of the way it cycles through the units. I tried to go through each city and check the worker actions and stop all those that are chopping. Those building Workshops could continue as their hammers would be stockpiled for later use as the city was building either research or wealth.

I don't think there is an easy answer...

 

[Cactus Pete]

I think Knossos is the best city for the SE exec in Athens (don't have the game available so please check) since it has many beaker multipliers. Don't build any more SE execs (cancel builds) there is not time enough left for them to earn back the gold and hammers spent in spreading the corporation. Executive in Namp'o should spread SE there. Okay, thanks.

I don't know the optimal place to do the trade mission, but I would suggest to airlift the GM to Asoka's capital and do it there. Then, that's the plan, unless someone suggests otherwise. You have time to do this before the current GA ends so there won't be any problems with triggering the next one (just wait until after the trade mission is completed). I don't think a GE can build space parts, he can only hurry a building. Understood.

Science slider should be set to 100% and then enough cities should produce wealth to keep the deficit below the available gold in the treasury. That's what I thought. We get gold every turn from overflow so it's OK to use up the gold in the treasury. Vandal will probably not come out of revolt before the game is over so it's not important what you do. Perhaps it's easier to gift it to Justinian immediately and then forget about it.

If you do, remember to use the GG to get amphibious promotions for some of the units.
What I had in mind, along with utilizing our cannon.

The short story is that we have beaker multipliers in most cities and commerce multipliers in very few thus building wealth to keep the science slider at 100% take advantage of these bonuses. Or you could say that decreasing the science slider to increase gpt is an expensive way to generate gold. Remember that when building wealth or science only the production modifiers come into play.

Follow that. (Misunderstood the logic expresed in your original advise.)

 

[Cactus Pete]

When starting a Golden Age, the Great People used are the ones closest to one another, physically on the map, of the type needed. As long as The Great Merchant is not stacked with the others, you shouldn't have a problem.
As Fred says, the Great Merchant should be used, or very far away, by the time you need to start the next GA. Got it.

I tracked this a bit during my set.
In one instance, there was 1151 Gold in the Treasury and the game indicated we were losing 619 GPT. At he start of the next turn, we had 1001 Gold in the Treasury, an actual loss of 150 Gold. We had gained 469 Gold in overflow during the IBT. Not usre what the overflows are now as we change some builds, but it is probably close. Only see a concern if I can't get the next tech in one turn without presuming overflow to keep from going into the red. Should that be the case, I will pause the game before hitting enter and consult.

This is why it is important to build Chariots in Argos! Nice overflow.
I sure need to learn how to use overflow (Me too.), it has been pretty powerful in this game.

Canceling their actions may not be the best course as one has to remember what each was doing. The game makes it difficult because of the way it cycles through the units. I tried to go through each city and check the worker actions and stop all those that are chopping. I don't think there is an easy answer...

Isn't there a way to get the game to cycle through all the units of one type -- in this case, workers?

 

[ShannonCT]

The only workers I see that need canceling are one building a lumbermill near Babylon (not needed) and one building a railroad near Nampo (prechop Seoul forests instead).

 

[leif erikson]

Only see a concern if I can't get the next tech in one turn without presuming overflow to keep from going into the red. Should that be the case, I will pause the game before hitting enter and consult.

You may also have to look at what the next tech is and how much it costs. Here is my reasoning:
When teching to Fusion, we were able to get Computers in one turn in the way you describe. The problem, then, was that there was no overflow to support Fiber Optics in one turn and so it required two turns. That, in turn, left plenty of overflow to get Fusion in one turn.

If there is leeway in the tech path, we could look at how the beakers would work out and use the overflow to our advantage, if need be, by teching a cheaper tech in one turn and then the more expensive one, using the overflow, to get it in one turn.

 

[ShannonCT]

If there is leeway in the tech path, we could look at how the beakers would work out and use the overflow to our advantage, if need be, by teching a cheaper tech in one turn and then the more expensive one, using the overflow, to get it in one turn.

There should be plenty of beaker to go Satellites, Composites, Genetics, Ecology.

 

[Cactus Pete]

The only workers I see that need canceling are one building a lumbermill near Babylon (not needed) and one building a railroad near Nampo (prechop Seoul forests instead).

Noted.

BTW, anyone have any experience with this error message from Windows? "Corrupted error report

Unfortunately, the error report you submitted is corrupted and can't be analyzed. Corrupted error reports are rare. They can be caused by hardware or software problems, and usually indicate a serious problem with your computer."
Restarted at the last good settings, but if I fail to post over the next two days, continue without me.


Otherwise, planning late tonight to complete the present turn and save without pressing Enter, then post a tentative plan, relying heavily on suggestions borrowed from recent posts.

 

[leif erikson]

BTW, anyone have any experience with this error message from Windows? "Corrupted error report

Unfortunately, the error report you submitted is corrupted and can't be analyzed. Corrupted error reports are rare. They can be caused by hardware or software problems, and usually indicate a serious problem with your computer."
Restarted at the last good settings, but if I fail to post over the next two days, continue without me.

You did the right thing by going back to the last good settings.

Googled "corrupted error report"

This looked helpful. Does the computer system boot? They suggest turning off automatic reboot on error and explain how to do it. This is if the problem persists, so that you can write down the info, from the blue screen of death, you'll need to search to figure out the problem.

I reported earlier that my system gronked and figured out it was due to heat. Cleaned all the dust out and seems to be running OK again.
Summer time can be hard on computer systems...

Otherwise, planning late tonight to complete the present turn and save without pressing Enter, then post a tentative plan, relying heavily on suggestions borrowed from recent posts.

Good Luck!

 

[Cactus Pete]

Played rest of present turn and micro-managed cities – save below.

Traded sheep for silk with Shaka.
Cancelled a worker building a lumbermill near Babylon (not needed) and another building a railroad near Nampo (will prechop Seoul forests instead).
Upon further review, have to agree that Vandal must wait a turn.

Tentative plan:

Keep the science slider at 100%.
Use other 3 GPs to start a golden age after GM is far away
Research Satellites, Composites, Genetics, Ecology in 1 turn each
Build HERMITAGE for one turn in Delphi, then take it off the queue there and let it finish in Akkad.
SE executive in Athens to Knossos next turn.
GM trade mission to Asoka's capital.
SE executive in Namp’o goes there next turn

Start SS parts as follows:

Athens Engine with 1 chop - start T160
Corinth Engine - start T160
Sippar Docking Bay - start T160
Sippar Life Support with 2 chops - start T162
Braga Thruster - started
Oporto Thruster with 4 chops - start T159
Coimbra Casing - start T160
Leiria Thruster - started
Lisbon Casing with 6 chops - start T161
Wonsan Casing - start T160
Mycenae Thruster - started
Pharsalos Casing - start T160
Nippur Thruster - start T159
Babylon Cockpit with 11 chops - start T161
Cuzco Casing with 5 chops - start T160 -- may need to work hammer tiles currently being used by other cities
Seoul Stasis Chamber with 13 chops - start T162
ARGOS - chariots
Make sure Sippar gets 2 chops for second part only and Lisbon gets 6

Maximize hammers when cities are building SS parts by working the highest hammer tiles and using engineer specialists. Chop all forests on T162 except where we have enough worker turns to build a workshop over a forest. On chopping, be careful because it now requires two turns to chop a forest and watch for roads as some tiles are not roaded.

After SS launch, the only things to do are make sure that our capital doesn't get captured and that we don't go over the domination limit.

Questions:

Don’t see how I can build an engine in Corinth without chops, and none have been scheduled. Without chops in Corinth, I don’t see need for any additional workers. With chops, don’t think I have enough workers for Corinth, Sippar, and Babylon. Would like clarification on this.

Is chopping the pre-chopped cottage near Athens necessary part of plan?

Also, a worker has just built a workshop near Seoul. Was this one of the 13 chops projected?

SAVE: http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220983&stc=1&d=1247553430

Assuming computer holds up, can play a little again Wednesday afternoon.

 

[Mad Professor]

I reported earlier that my system gronked and figured out it was due to heat. Cleaned all the dust out and seems to be running OK again.
Summer time can be hard on computer systems...

Heat? You should try April in Chad, Lief, where the shade temperature regularly exceeds 120F during the day, and the eastern sky regularly darkens with an oncoming dust storm. When you see that in the sky, everyone scrambles to hide the computers.... I lived in Chad between 2000 and 2005. I examined the inside of a laptop I used there between 2003 and 2005 after it fried and I've never seen the inside of a cimputer so dirty. No wonder it fried...

Fortunately here in Kenya at over 5000 feet it doesn't get anywhere near so hot, and because it rains so often (does it ever stop?) dust is not such a big problem either. I think this country is much kinder on computers than Chad.

Go for it CP. Go get 'em!

 

[leif erikson]

Heat? You should try April in Chad, Lief, where the shade temperature regularly exceeds 120F during the day, and the eastern sky regularly darkens with an oncoming dust storm. When you see that in the sky, everyone scrambles to hide the computers.... I lived in Chad between 2000 and 2005. I examined the inside of a laptop I used there between 2003 and 2005 after it fried and I've never seen the inside of a computer so dirty. No wonder it fried...

Now we all know why I do not live in Chad.
Too hot for me...

Not entirely convinced my only problem is heat, but we shall see as time passes.

Fortunately here in Kenya at over 5000 feet it doesn't get anywhere near so hot, and because it rains so often (does it ever stop?) dust is not such a big problem either. I think this country is much kinder on computers than Chad.

Sounds like a much better place to be, hope you packed your rain gear?

Glad to see you post, hope all is well.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I tracked this a bit during my set.
In one instance, there was 1151 Gold in the Treasury and the game indicated we were losing 619 GPT. At he start of the next turn, we had 1001 Gold in the Treasury, an actual loss of 150 Gold. We had gained 469 Gold in overflow during the IBT. Not usre what the overflows are now as we change some builds, but it is probably close. Only see a concern if I can't get the next tech in one turn without presuming overflow to keep from going into the red. Should that be the case, I will pause the game before hitting enter and consult.

Please note that gold from overflow can't be used in the same turn it's generated. This means that if the gold deficit is greater than the contents of the treasury the game will automatically adjust the science slider down!! I think this may have happened during leif's turn set and that is why the slider was at 80% in the save.

Also, a worker has just built a workshop near Seoul. Was this one of the 13 chops projected?

CP, are you on top of making sure that chops go to the right cities? This is relevant in all places where cities have overlapping FC's. The way to make sure a chop goes to a certain city is to work the tile. It may be enough to make the tile available (defogged) in the city screen. Perhaps SCT knows?