SGOTM 10 - Maple Sporks

[Norvin_Green]

Do you think that we should come up with some type of form that we post our step-by-step plans? I could probably set something up in excel. This way we can print it to have it right in front of us as we play. Let me know what you guys think?

 

[sturick]

Sounds like you are bored at work today?

I personally wouldn't use anything like that.
I just look back to the forums when I want to reference the plan.
Plus when we get to the later stages of the game this kind of MM just isn't feasible.
I simply wanted to focus alot of the start of the game because getting off to a strong start gives us the best chance of success.

 

[Norvin_Green]

Sounds like you are bored at work today?

You have NO idea. I agree that it would get tedious.

 

[nocho]

I just noticed Moscow's water tiles have a tile yield of at least 2. Did it come with a free lighthouse? On build orders, I would build another workboat to hook up all sea food. Ideally I would let it grow to the happy cap and let it uniquely spam settlers with a few workers intertwined if needed. Of course the happy cap will grow as we hook up ivory and gold and under HR with any city garrisson unit. So while growing indeed a library could be built, though at this stage I think the main focus must be settlers. I'd start on them at least at size 4, better size 5. With 3 sea food, the iron mine and corn and/or rice they can be churned out rapidly.
I agree that gold and moai should go first. If possible I'd settle the blue dot (either from sturick or my dotmap) next, to block Gandhi a bit off. I'm with Norvin that I doubt about settling more to the west (Gandhi permitting). If after blue it's still available we can consider it, but for now it's not highest priority.
Agree with sturick that St Pete is the place to spam units. Gold site or moai site should build some boat relatively quickly to go and explore, both the SE island and that northern neighbour. Moscow could also build a boat for that purpose while growing.

 

[sturick]

I agree that Moai city should come next...for two reasons.

One is to protect from getting snagged by Gandhi.
Two is that once the fish is hooked it can help out with settler/worker duty!

Perhaps when possible we should build a caravel to send our explorer out and about as nocho suggested. For now, I would place him on fogbuster duty.

 

[sturick]

The other thing that I just now realized...settlers have a higher price tag in renaissance starts.
342 hammers!

For regular games it is 149.

That is also something to consider when we go to build them.

Another reason I like building a library in Moscow...it allows the city to grow that much larger before we start cranking out settlers.

 

[nocho]

342 hammers, wow! That's more than double the normal price. Then probably indeed better to grow to happy cap first.

And just so we agree, where exactly do we want to place moai? I'd say the grass hill, but the flat grass could also be a possibility.

 

[Whosit]

I was thinking the grassland tile, but after carefully examining the location, I'm not sure that it makes a big different. Settling on the hill gets the same number of hill tiles plus the grassland for another land tile. We could workshop it. The city would end up with an odd number of food, but hopefully that wouldn't matter much. It just might be harder to stagnate it?

I could go either way, really, though I suppose it would be better to settle the hill in the long run? Oh, yeah, and I think each spot gets the same number of the less desirable ocean tiles.

 

[Whosit]

My computer suddenly became inoperative and I don't know when I'll have it fixed (hopefully there's no "if" there). I might be good to go in time to play my set since things seem to be at a more mellow pace here, but if I'm not ready just skip me until I am. I'll try to continue to contribute, but since I'll have to borrow computers, it might not be that often (again, depending on how long it takes to solve my problem).

 

[sturick]

Upon review...I think the plains hill tile is the best spot for our Moai city.

Settling the grassland would give us 11 land based hammers.
Settling the plains hill would give us 12 land based hammers (assuming we workshop the grassland tile)

Not to be overlooked is the fact that settling on the grass yields us 4 land based food.
Settling the plains hill nets us 6 land based food.

Another aspect to consider is this.
If we settle on the plains hill tile then all of our water tiles would be coastal and grant us two commerce per tile.

So my vote would be to settle the Moai city on the plains hill.

@Whosit: Best of luck with your puter situation...please keep us informed as best you can.
I have no problem giving you a few days to figure it out.

 

[Norvin_Green]

Good luck with the pc Whosit. Like we mentioned earlier we shouldn't be rushing to get to our turns.
I didn't realize this and you guys might have but after you play a turn set and upload the file to the site you can post a link here so that we can all view the save. AlanH did it for us after sturick's set. We are allowed to open the save only. No testing trades, MMing cities or anything, just to examine cities. Again you guys might have figured this out but I confirmed it with him in a PM.
As to our game Maoi next on the sturick spot sounds good. I also like the caravel idea as on the test maps that I played there were often several good smallish islands to settle.

 

[nocho]

Upon review...I think the plains hill tile is the best spot for our Moai city.

That was my initial thinking as well, but then I realized it is 2NW of Moscow so I assume we cannot settle there.

 

[Whosit]

OK, I think that my computer is back in operational order (after much wrangling and frustration, it seems that a simple system restore was all that was necessary . . .). I'm going to make sure that I can open Civ and the save before I confirm, because my laptop crashes just as I was opening Civ (probably a coincidence, but who knows).

I'm for settling the Plains Hill, if possible. We can always drop a settler there first to see if we're allowed to. Would it be legal to set up that situation in World Builder to see if the game mechanics allow another city to be settled in such a situation?

Edit: I've successfully opened the save, so I think I'm good to go when we're ready.

What I understand so far: Grow Moscow to happy limit, building Library for beakers, maybe military buildings after that? Then Settlers, a few workers (not that I'd get that far).
St. Pete: Military builds, barracks, etc. Should I throw in a Monastery so that we can spread the religion around a bit? If nothing else, it would let us build temples and Monasteries (beakers) and eventually a Cathedral for extra culture (put one in St. Pete to push back Indian culture?).

Settle Moai (still to be decided) and gold site.

 

[sturick]

Fingers crossed for you Whosit that your computer problems are behind you.

Yes the plains hill is out of the running.

So instead I say we plant 1N on the grass hill.

Compared to grass it gets one extra food and 2 extra hammers.
Plus the obvious benefit of defensive bonuses.

I think we should let it work one of the seafood tiles from Moscow right away as Moscow could work the rice or corn tiles for growth.

 

[sturick]

Also as a suggestion for players I think it would be wise to writeup a detailed plan of attack perhaps a day in advance of your set.

That way we can all agree on the course of action.
Also, it makes easy reference for the player during their set.

Just a suggestion.

Also...anyone else think its odd that only three teams have played any turns yet???

 

[Whosit]

Also...anyone else think its odd that only three teams have played any turns yet???

Yes. When I went to grab the save, I thought I would see everyone would be centuries ahead of us, but not so. Perhaps the "go it slow" idea is a good one. That, or everyone else is absurdly lazy.

Also, the attack plan is a good idea. It will of necessity become more vague as our civilization's complexity increases, but keeping everyone on the same page would be most helpful. So, I posted my thoughts above. I can play this week (barring any more unforeseen problems) once we've settled on our course of action.

 

[Norvin_Green]

I'm not sure as this is my first SGOTM experience but my guess is that there is much more discussion about each turn especially at the start of a game. There are some really outstanding players involved in this and being as it is a competition I'm sure the competitive juices are flowing. I think we should check with AlanH (hint hint) and see if its allowed to go into prior SGOTM threads to see some of the discussions that have taken place in the past.
I love sturick's idea for a summary post with plans for a turnset and the waiting period as well. Its kind of what I was suggesting yesterday but without all the paperwork

 

[nocho]

Well, the attack plan is fine although I think we more or less discuss quite a bit already about our plans...

I've been thinking and I find it highly unlikely that Gandhi would build a boat to settle moai if he can settle to his south over land. So I favour gold site first, which economically is important. But I can live with Moai first if you all insist on that.

Where is Sirloin by the way? I guess Sengir is still busy moving his stuff.

 

[Sirloin]

I'm around, sorry I haven't contributed to the discussion in the last couple days; I've been locked up with some work, but I think the worst is behind me.

 

[Sirloin]

Settling:

I also favor gold site next instead of "Moai". You guys do realize we can't actually build the Moai with a late-start, right? Its a good city site but I think gold would be a lot more useful short term. I don't think Moai is in any danger of falling to India any time toon; he'll definitely be expanding to the south (or northwest depending on whats up there). I agree that an aggressive gandhi block is not necessary.

Production-wise, I think we should get our settler out pretty soon. Gold site is close, and will pay for itself. I'd like to use that WB to poke around and see if India has iron or horses yet. If not, we may want to consider a macemen or two immediately and a very aggressive dow. Remember that copper isn't really too useful right now; sure they can build axes + spears, but those are obsolete units. Iron is absolutely key for Knights+Maces; if India doesn't have it, there's nothing they can do to defend against pillaging Macemen until they get Gunpowder. Even then, aggressive Maces = 8.8 v 9.0 muskets. Even horses w/o Iron gives them ... Horse Archers? Jumbos could be a little annoying but we can pike them.