SGOTM 10 - One Short Straw

[Soirana]

deleted into oblivion

 

[shyuhe]

Did a couple of ivory runs. I think it's stronger than fish.

triple worker:
Moscow pop 8, 54 bpt, 8 hpt, settler in 13
St. P, pop 6, 20 bpt, 8 hpt, settler in 17
1259 towards Nationalism

quadruple worker:
Moscow pop 8, 54 bpt, 9 hpt, settler in 16
St. P, pop 7, 21 bpt, 8 hpt, settler in 20

1224 towards Nationalism.

I fiddled around with some moves here and there so it's a little inconsistent but I think ivory is stronger than fish. And quadruple worker is not a bad idea with ivory - there are lots of tiles that need improvements.

I haven't tested chopping in place with the worker for either WB or worker in St. P vs. chopping next to Moscow.

 

[shyuhe]

Here are some triple and quadruple worker saves for ivory. The quadruple one has much lower tech since I was pushing for the settler earlier. Because there were improvements done, I worked tiles instead of hiring scientists. But the quadruple worker save has a settler due in 6 (Moscow) and 11 (St. Pete). The beakers are about 100 behind the triple worker save pushing for GPP, but I think this is stronger as it gives us 4 cities early with ample workers.

Also, I think making a GE first and burning him on the Taj followed by the second person being a GS for education looks good.

Edit: in terms of raw stats for this quad worker save:
Moscow 8 pop, 49 bpt, 16 hpt, settler in 6
St. P 6 pop, 12 bpt, 14 hpt, settler in 11
1146 towards Nationalism.

 

[babybluepants]

I don't like the GE. I don't see that much benefit from a golden age that early, and it's one less GS. I think we can just run citizen specialists until libraries are up.

I do suspect that results might be close enough if actions for both sites are optimized.

I think so, too.

 

[Soirana]

deleted into oblivion

 

[babybluepants]

I haven't tested chopping in place with the worker for either WB or worker in St. P vs. chopping next to Moscow.

Switch civics, chop in place and have the hammers go to Moscow for a worker, then immediately have both guys chop another one 1W of Moscow. This gives you 3 workers the fastest. With a bureau chop you get a worker in 1t, so I've been growing while putting a few hammers into a warrior or library in-between.

 

[babybluepants]

if we want exact testing i suggest using corrected save i have uploaded.
Gold mine is clearly plain gold not desert and 2w of phants is desert hill not plain one and so on...

Sure, I missed that before. It shouldn't make that much of a difference (+/-1hpt).

 

[Soirana]

deleted into oblivion

 

[babybluepants]

^ Yeah, that sounds better.

 

[shyuhe]

How are you guys getting the worker's initial chop hammers to go to Moscow? If you settle St. P on the ivory, don't those hammers go to St. P?? Or am I missing something here...

I think the best method of chopping workers is to use 1 worker chopping while building a warrior. The warriors need to be built anyways, and you want to minimize the turns spent building workers to maximize city growth.

I'll re-run off of Soirana's save tonight but I don't think the numbers will change much.

My second city vote is for ivory, fish for #3. The distance to the fish site is a definite consideration. And I think quadruple worker is not overkill given this start. There are lots of tiles that need improvements, and you only lose ~100 beakers while gaining faster settler production.

 

[shyuhe]

I don't like the GE. I don't see that much benefit from a golden age that early, and it's one less GS. I think we can just run citizen specialists until libraries are up.

I left it as engineers partly mostly because I was too lazy to change them to citizens. Is there any use for an engineer in this game? The only use I see for them is mining inc. and SoL. But it sounds like we won't be teching democracy any time soon, and we'll probably use state property over mining inc. So no GE then?

 

[babybluepants]

How are you guys getting the worker's initial chop hammers to go to Moscow? If you settle St. P on the ivory, don't those hammers go to St. P?? Or am I missing something here...

You need to go inside the city screen in Moscow and select that tile.

I haven't tried 4 workers, but I can see it being beneficial. Part of it is getting to Caste reasonably soon, while also keeping up with worker duties past the first two cities. I've been having trouble with that further on. I don't think it would necessarily be bad to run ahead of the cities with improvements.

 

[babybluepants]

I left it as engineers partly mostly because I was too lazy to change them to citizens. Is there any use for an engineer in this game? The only use I see for them is mining inc. and SoL. But it sounds like we won't be teching democracy any time soon, and we'll probably use state property over mining inc. So no GE then?

Yes, I would vote for no GE. I think it's ok to take the extra hammers in Moscow until library, as long as Peter outpaces it after.

 

[Soirana]

deleted into oblivion

 

[shyuhe]

Oooo. I totally forgot that mechanic about chops on worked tiles going to the city... It's been so long since I used that trick

Having four workers also gives you the leeway to start building roads to the fish site.

So, it looks like me, soirana, and bbp support ivory. Paulus, mdy, RRR (who I think is unavaialble still)?

 

[shyuhe]

I actually got away without warriors just few longbows from cap after library. Depends on how much fogbusting we would need of course. On that save initial units do the job.
As growth goes... With corn rice and cows on size three it has +11, honestly it slows a bit only after both gold are worked... I simply piled all over hammers into library...

It can't hurt to build warriors, as we'll use them for city garrisons eventually. Plus they're dirt cheap. I don't think it slows down the library significantly anyways, as Moscow doesn't get significant hammers until the cow + gold mines are online.

 

[babybluepants]

I actually got away without warriors just few longbows from cap after library. Depends on how much fogbusting we would need of course. On that save initial units do the job.
As growth goes... With corn rice and cows on size three it has +11, honestly it slows a bit only after both gold are worked... I simply piled all over hammers into library...

I'm building one warrior in each for happiness since they're much cheaper. LB's are obviously better for fogbusting. With the ivory site giving a happy resource immediately (unlike fish), maybe we don't even need it before gold is hooked up. I'm not sure.

 

[Soirana]

deleted into oblivion

 

[shyuhe]

On my last test, I made a warrior in Moscow but not in St. Pete. I roaded the grass gold, which put the happy cap at 9 and 8 (with a religion spread to Moscow). So it may be better to start building the library before warrior unless exploration of the actual map shows that we need to send the LB out for fogbusting.

 

[babybluepants]

On my last test, I made a warrior in Moscow but not in St. Pete. I roaded the grass gold, which put the happy cap at 9 and 8 (with a religion spread to Moscow). So it may be better to start building the library before warrior unless exploration of the actual map shows that we need to send the LB out for fogbusting.

Are you guys getting pretty consistent auto-spread? Are you adopting a religion before completing a library? I guess it doesn't matter, but we don't really need it before we start running scientists. It would be good to find a sweet spot, where taking a turn of anarchy lets workers catch up with city growth.