Sweetness! Who wants the honour?
SGOTM 10 - One Short Straw
- Thread starter AlanH
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shyuhe
Deity
I'll pick up the save and do the moves. I'll post pictures as you can't re-post the save until you complete a turn because of the way the system works.
shyuhe
Deity
Apparently my fog reading skills need work.
I think we need to move the explorer onto the plains gold hill to look for seafood. If there's no seafood, I think the second city should go somewhere near the floodplains.
I think we need to move the explorer onto the plains gold hill to look for seafood. If there's no seafood, I think the second city should go somewhere near the floodplains.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Me too, let's move that explorer 
Agree (10 chars)
shyuhe
Deity
Moving explorer now.
shyuhe
Deity
I think second city goes on that desert hill to claim all those resources.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
PaulusIII
Unholy Warlord
Cows, clams, gold... 
Definitely thirded.
Definitely thirded.
shyuhe
Deity
I don't think it's worth the 2 turns it takes to move there.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
How many turns of anarchy will we take? We can settle the cap in the gold spot turn 3, so the initial can be on turn 3 too without being the capital. IF the arnarchy is 3 turns too (a chop is more than that), we can do it without troubles...
I think we definitely have our two city sites. I've been primarily testing with a 2-gold capital, for the reason mdy stated, but I've been assuming more cottageable land down there for an entirely commercial bureau city. At this point, I'm not opposed to a start location capital as that would give us a major early production boost going into REX. Also, I think the next step is figuring out our civic switch before we do anything else. Should we all do some play-testing for a few days?
PaulusIII
Unholy Warlord
As far as I can see, the line south of clams is two plains tiles and three ocean tiles. I think the northern phant city (that is, if we're going with Soirana's plan and not the original) would better be founded 1E of the northern phants though - that way it keeps freshwater and the possibility for a levee. With the riverside tiles that city has we'd be missing out on a lot of hammers in the long run.
I still prefer settling in place and on the desert hill, though.
We'll need two turns of anarchy at any rate, so we might be able to move our capital to the gold site in that case.
As for civics, I'm currently thinking:
I still prefer settling in place and on the desert hill, though.
We'll need two turns of anarchy at any rate, so we might be able to move our capital to the gold site in that case.
As for civics, I'm currently thinking:
- HR is the only choice.
- Bureaucracy is better by a mile compared to Vassalage.
- Serfdom to get our improvements up quickly. There's something to be said for Caste and Slavery as well - Caste so we can get the specialists running early, Slavery to get buildings up in our generally high-food core cities.
- Mercantilism is a bit of a gamble, since I don't know yet what the AI will be doing - though in my experience they jump to Mercantilism as soon as they have it so keeping Decentralization in place for the foreign trade routes is of no use. Might as well just switch.
- Religious civic is a bit of a gamble as well. If we have some crazy warmongers next door Pacifism will be backfiring on us, but it's the better civic for the sake of GP production.
Another option would be to settle on the forest W of the gold which would drasticly reduce the number of bad tiles at the expense of losing the clams. If we are planning on getting most of our beakers from specialists the presence of some bad tiles should not matter as we would never work them anyway.
The second city could either go on the grass hill between the fish and the gold or be a floodplains/ivory city.
The second city could either go on the grass hill between the fish and the gold or be a floodplains/ivory city.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Hum... I disagree with you guys... the better GPP site is in place, and I fail to see how the other sites mentionned for the gold are better than the northern desert hill. One desert tile hardly matters, and that site can work 4 food resources. Moreover, I fear we destroy a good site moving somewhere on the river without exploration. True we haven't decide on the worker yet, which could help...
Now I haven't taken breakfeast yet, so take this with a grain of salt...
Now I haven't taken breakfeast yet, so take this with a grain of salt...
My thinking is:
- Bureaucracy is a no-brainer
- I think serfdom is the best overall, though caste has some value. Slavery seems like the weakest of the bunch all things considered. I think we'll need to switch to Caste relatively soon, but that fits nicely with a Rep slingshot. If we go with Serfdom, we need to really rush a Library, which we'd probably do anyway for the extra research.
- Mercantilism is pretty great for REX, only when coupled with Caste. It translates into a 4t border pop, followed by covering at least a chunk of the newly incurred maintenance. Even without caste, a free specialist is nice to have. I think we can pretty much bet on all the AIs adopting it until at least FM. Other then maybe Musa, none of them prioritize Econ too much. And, regardless, I think the benefit of Merc outweighs early trade routes.
- My argument on religion would be that we can't possibly avoid it, go with a specialist economy and beat another team that does the same with Pacifism. Without it, we're generating 2/3 gpp in the NE city and 1/2 elsewhere. That probably translates into a difference between 10 and 15-16 GP. In my two applicable tests so far, I've had no diplo trouble, though one of them was a fairly isolated start. I obviously can't guarantee it, as it really depends on map setup and neighbors.
- Hereditary Rule: I've been skipping it. We have 8 happy (including gold & ivory) to start. The desert hill city wouldn't really want much more pop, while the seafood city would probably stunt a little with a settler spam. If we're beelining Rep, we might be able to get away with depending on securing a couple of more resources with the next couple of cities. This is only if we go with the first 4 civic switches, to avoid an extra turn of anarchy. If we don't go with Pac or something, I'd obviuosly still adopt HR.
About city location: I still think the original plan is the best, but let's keep discussing it. We would get to plant a third city for 2 ivory and FP's, and more decent cities is a good thing here.
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