SGOTM 10 - One Short Straw

[RRRaskolnikov]

Well, I agree with pretty much what you said... I guess I will go on with the galley then

Plan is to play tonight... Shyuhe, try to chime in by then, but I think we shouldn't wait longer, deadline is quickly coming

 

[shyuhe]

Everything looks good. Only things I'd add are that Moscow needs to go xbow -- settler -- Oxford to avoid decay. The sheep/copper site is higher priority than silver, as Gandhi is more likely to settle it.

I would also buy Roos's map (35 gold).

I'd prefer to go for economics as well if possible. It'll help fuel 100% research for a long time. I don't feel strongly about it though.

 

[shyuhe]

Also, PP is very easy to trade for - the AI doesn't apply monopoly tech rules to it. So I'd tech other things first and hope to backfill PP.

 

[babybluepants]

If we're beelining SM, we'll need PP reasonably soon, which is why I mentioned it. It's also preferred by GS over Chem and Astro. Given the AI pace atm, I'm not sure they'll even have it to trade by the time we finish Chem. I guess we can tech other stuff for a while, too.

@shyuhe, do you think we can still get the free GM?

 

[shyuhe]

Given the horrendous AI tech pace, I think we have a good shot at the economics GM. We have roughly double the next AI in terms of GNP, and we're blazing at 100% whereas the AI's likely to be wasting money on EP and stuff. So I feel pretty confident about it. Remember, this IS only emperor, and on a late era start where the AI takes a bit to get going.

 

[shyuhe]

Regarding PP, we're not running cottages so there's no hurry to pick it up. We can tech it when we need to unlock it for a bulb, but that's at least 20-30 turns away from what I can see. So I'd hope for the off chance that it opens up in a trade rather than waste our own beakers on it.

 

[babybluepants]

In my early testing, I found it really easy to backfill everything after more or less completely beelining nukes down the SM line. The AI's really don't tech well on this setup, so you don't even need to give away much of anything. I'm ok with switching to Econ, but I see it as a bit of a gambit. Stuff like Econ and PP is trade filler, except for the bonus GM. I agree that I wouldn't really wanna waste beakers on PP. If we're wasting them, Econ is better for the bonus. The other option might be to just tech Chem right away, then put beakers into something like Astro while we wait for a PP trade to open up SM.

 

[mdy]

Given the AI's tech pace and the state of our relations I think it is very unlikely that Printing Press will be available for trade in time. Given that 2+ Civs had education before my turnset began we will not get the GM if either of them started economics next (which from testing still seems quite unlikely.) Maybe we should set science to 0% until we finish gunpowder. This would also give us more beakers from Oxford.

 

[shyuhe]

We don't need to be friendly to trade for PP - that's the key. We just need the regular trading relationship which is annoyed or cautious for these leaders.

I see the point about the economics GM being a bit of a gamble, but is it not worth trying for given our loss of a city? If others don't want to, then that's fine.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

@Shyuhe: That's because we have lost a city that I would veto any gamble... Beside, we could do it before last set, so it seems really bad to attempt it now. I think we are 3 against economics, i hope you don't mind if I research gunpowder

I will set slider to 0% till Oxford. Playing now...

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

whoa, that was tough... the barbs are more than an annoyance... we nearly lost Moscow!!!... no damages in the end, but we lost a gold mine during two turns, a crossbow (barb amphibie attack at 20% -> success), and a LB (barb attack again at 20% -> onther win!!!). You will see in the pics (tmr) that I put units in all coastal tiles near Moscow, but the barb attacked anyway and screwed us with their luck... Since then I moved the trireme closer to the barb city so it can see incoming galleys earlier. It was too close to Moscow, and couldn't react in time. When the galley appeared, I had only 80% chance to kill it and didn't take the risk. Maybe I should have, but then again with my luck...

Gunpowder finished, GS due in one turn in ST pet, NE due in one turn in Yaro. Oxford in one turn too (happy next turn guys ). I think St Pet should gift one of its sea food to Yaro so we can use the NE to greater effect. We have plenty of cash now (900+) for deficit research.

Oh I was about to forget... Gandhi switched in war mode turn 77, I think he wants a revenge, some phants/pults might come in handy. I have pics of some of his forces (few knights), will update them tmr with details I have skipped tonight

Here is the log:

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1660 AD to 1704 AD:

Turn 352, 1660 AD: Scythian (Barbarian) has been captured by the French Empire!!!
Turn 352, 1660 AD: Alexandre Gustave Eiffel (Great Engineer) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 353, 1665 AD: You have trained a Crossbowman in Moscow. Work has now begun on Oxford University.
Turn 353, 1665 AD: Sir Alexander Mackenzie (Great Merchant) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 354, 1670 AD: Gandhi adopts Slavery!

Turn 355, 1675 AD: You have trained a Settler in Moscow. Work has now begun on Oxford University.
Turn 355, 1675 AD: Barbarian's Longbowman (6.60) vs Stalin's Crossbowman 24 (Moscow) (9.00)
Turn 355, 1675 AD: Combat Odds: 20.9%
Turn 355, 1675 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 355, 1675 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 355, 1675 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 355, 1675 AD: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 355, 1675 AD: Barbarian's Longbowman is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 355, 1675 AD: Stalin's Crossbowman 24 (Moscow) is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 355, 1675 AD: Stalin's Crossbowman 24 (Moscow) is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 355, 1675 AD: Barbarian's Longbowman is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 355, 1675 AD: Stalin's Crossbowman 24 (Moscow) is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 355, 1675 AD: Stalin's Crossbowman 24 (Moscow) is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 355, 1675 AD: Barbarian's Longbowman is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 355, 1675 AD: Stalin's Crossbowman 24 (Moscow) is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 355, 1675 AD: Stalin's Crossbowman 24 (Moscow) is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 355, 1675 AD: Barbarian's Longbowman has defeated Stalin's Crossbowman 24 (Moscow)!

Turn 356, 1680 AD: You have trained a Longbowman in Moscow. Work has now begun on Oxford University.
Turn 356, 1680 AD: St. Petersburg celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 356, 1680 AD: Barbarian's Galley (2.00) vs Stalin's Trireme 19 (St. Petersburg) (3.20)
Turn 356, 1680 AD: Combat Odds: 5.1%
Turn 356, 1680 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 356, 1680 AD: (Class Defense: +50%)
Turn 356, 1680 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 356, 1680 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 356, 1680 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 356, 1680 AD: Stalin's Trireme 19 (St. Petersburg) is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 356, 1680 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 356, 1680 AD: Stalin's Trireme 19 (St. Petersburg) has defeated Barbarian's Galley!

Turn 357, 1685 AD: Stalin's Longbowman 27 (Moscow) (6.60) vs Barbarian's Longbowman (5.26)
Turn 357, 1685 AD: Combat Odds: 75.3%
Turn 357, 1685 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 357, 1685 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 357, 1685 AD: (Combat: +25%)
Turn 357, 1685 AD: Barbarian's Longbowman is hit for 19 (46/100HP)
Turn 357, 1685 AD: Stalin's Longbowman 27 (Moscow) is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 357, 1685 AD: Barbarian's Longbowman is hit for 19 (27/100HP)
Turn 357, 1685 AD: Barbarian's Longbowman is hit for 19 (8/100HP)
Turn 357, 1685 AD: Barbarian's Longbowman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 357, 1685 AD: Stalin's Longbowman 27 (Moscow) has defeated Barbarian's Longbowman!
Turn 357, 1685 AD: St. Petersburg celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!

Turn 358, 1690 AD: Rostov (Barbarian) has been captured by the Indian Empire!!!
Turn 358, 1690 AD: Barbarian's Longbowman (6.60) vs Stalin's Longbowman 2 (Moscow) (9.00)
Turn 358, 1690 AD: Combat Odds: 20.9%
Turn 358, 1690 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 358, 1690 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 358, 1690 AD: (Hills Defense: +25%)
Turn 358, 1690 AD: Barbarian's Longbowman is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 358, 1690 AD: Barbarian's Longbowman is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 358, 1690 AD: Barbarian's Longbowman is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 358, 1690 AD: Stalin's Longbowman 2 (Moscow) is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 358, 1690 AD: Stalin's Longbowman 2 (Moscow) is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 358, 1690 AD: Stalin's Longbowman 2 (Moscow) is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 358, 1690 AD: Stalin's Longbowman 2 (Moscow) is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 358, 1690 AD: Barbarian's Longbowman is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 358, 1690 AD: Stalin's Longbowman 2 (Moscow) is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 358, 1690 AD: Stalin's Longbowman 2 (Moscow) is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 358, 1690 AD: Barbarian's Longbowman has defeated Stalin's Longbowman 2 (Moscow)!

Turn 359, 1695 AD: Stalin's Longbowman 27 (Moscow) (6.60) vs Barbarian's Longbowman (0.76)
Turn 359, 1695 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 359, 1695 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 359, 1695 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 359, 1695 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 359, 1695 AD: (Hills Defense: +25%)
Turn 359, 1695 AD: Stalin's Longbowman 27 (Moscow) is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 359, 1695 AD: Barbarian's Longbowman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 359, 1695 AD: Stalin's Longbowman 27 (Moscow) has defeated Barbarian's Longbowman!

Turn 360, 1700 AD: The borders of Yaroslavl' are about to expand.
Turn 360, 1700 AD: The borders of Yaroslavl' have expanded!
Turn 360, 1700 AD: Roosevelt has founded Philadelphia in a distant land.
Turn 360, 1700 AD: Roosevelt has founded Atlanta in a distant land.

Turn 361, 1702 AD: Roosevelt has 120 gold available for trade.
Turn 361, 1702 AD: Gandhi has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 361, 1702 AD: Novgorod will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 361, 1702 AD: Yekaterinburg will grow to size 9 on the next turn.
Turn 361, 1702 AD: You have discovered Gunpowder!

Turn 362, 1704 AD: Novgorod has grown to size 7.
Turn 362, 1704 AD: Yekaterinburg has grown to size 9.
Turn 362, 1704 AD: Gandhi will trade Economics

Cheers,
Ras

 

[shyuhe]

Yeah no problem - looks like economics wasn't possible anyways. Those barbs sure are getting annoying.

 

[babybluepants]

Those barbs sure are getting annoying.

Yup.

Gandhi's in war mode?! Can't we just give him one tech for +4 or something? Don't really wanna be building defenders.

PS: I'll have a look at the save tmr, and post real comments.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

@Shyuhe: Yeah, eco is the first merchant... we had no window to grab it.

Gandhi's in war mode?! Can't we just give him one tech for +4 or something? Don't really wanna be building defenders.

Because he is in war mode, I would not gift him anything... his decsion is made, now we have to face it . There is a small chance it's not us, but we are definately his land target, so I would prepare a bit. we have LBs in each cities, but that's it.

 

[mdy]

Gandhi and Mao are each others worst enemies so there is some hope he won't attack us. Nevertheless it would probably be an idea to send a longbow to spy on Gandhi and build a few cats/muskets in Novogrod and Yakterinburg. As the barbs now have silver city I think we should found the sugar city next.

I would attack any more barb galleys with the trieme, our odds of losing are lower than of losing a unit on land and if we do lose they are cheaper to replace.

I agree with St Pete giving 1 of it's food sources to the National Epic city.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Will upload pics after work, but with gandhi's current troops, I think LBs/phants are more efficient and cheaper than muskets. he has only medieval troops and is building knights.

About silver: I am not sure if it's a graphical bug after Gandhi took the city (culture display not updated) or if it's a new one... but i agree sugar should go next after sheep/copper in that case. Gandhi is settling west too

When he went in WHEOOHRN, he was Mao's worst ennemy, but Mao wasn't his... that doesn't tell us who he will attack, but I would not count too much on him taking on crazy Mao.

 

[mdy]

About silver: I am not sure if it's a graphical bug after Gandhi took the city (culture display not updated) or if it's a new one... but i agree sugar should go next after sheep/copper in that case.

Good point, it probably is a graphical bug in which case we should probably settle the silver city next. We need the happinness and it will contribute more to the economy than the sugar site. We would need to build a second trieme in Yekterinburg in this case.

When he went in WHEOOHRN, he was Mao's worst ennemy, but Mao wasn't his... that doesn't tell us who he will attack, but I would not count too much on him taking on crazy Mao.

That's odd. In the 1660 save Mao is Gandhi's worst enemy did we do something since them to annoy him?

If the bulk of Gandhi's forces are knights I agree that elephants would be more efficient than muskets.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

We didn't do anything no... I noticed he switched in war mode the turn I was moving the LB away of St Pet to Yaro for MP (brought the LB back later), maybe he saw a weakness there? not sure the AI takes individual city defense in account though...

here are the pics i took, not much time to comment but i hope you will get the essential still :

Spoiler :

 

[shyuhe]

Ok, I think I'm up. Hopefully post a plan later tonight and play over the weekend.

 

[babybluepants]

Because he is in war mode, I would not gift him anything... his decsion is made, now we have to face it . There is a small chance it's not us, but we are definately his land target, so I would prepare a bit. we have LBs in each cities, but that's it.

Sorry, I was joking. This game is really annoying me now.

About silver: I am not sure if it's a graphical bug after Gandhi took the city (culture display not updated) or if it's a new one... but i agree sugar should go next after sheep/copper in that case. Gandhi is settling west too

I was asking about barb spawning before the set, 'cause I was afraid of losing islands. I'm pretty sure they can't anymore. Must be a graphical bug, as you say. I agree with mdy with silver next.

We didn't do anything no... I noticed he switched in war mode the turn I was moving the LB away of St Pet to Yaro for MP (brought the LB back later), maybe he saw a weakness there? not sure the AI takes individual city defense in account though...

We also do have a close borders penalty now. I wonder if that happened after Yaro's borders expanded 2t ago, or before then.