SGOTM 10 - Xteam

[Mistfit]

Great turns Bugs!

I like the progression of this game.

1.) I tick em off
2.) You guys wipe em out

 

[Capt Buttkick]

I will admit that Capt's Spear in Coventry saved our butts, but now that we have Swords, I think we should be building them. I think I would start building more horses with a view to upgrade to Knights?

When I whipped the Spear, Coventry didn't have access to iron. I agree we should build swords instead of spears.
Then again, horses to knights --> even better

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I was thinking spear because they upgrade to pikes and those are nice defenders. If I have a sword, I usually won't hold them back too much.

I have never been a fan of horses. I love knights, but for 30S I just don't see the value in them.

Good eye spotting the city west of Machu. We might need more units the east since that is essentially the Incan core.

 

[DJMGator13]

If we can hit their big cities first we might snag a bunch of those size 2 cities in a peace deal. I may try to play tonight, since there seems to be no pressing points to discuss.

@Bugs - I love horses. Akots taught me the power of them in SGOTM2. They hold their own against spears and with the retreat you save on shields in the long run. Plus they upgrade to knights where swords only upgrade to MDI's.

 

[scoutsout]

@Gator: I love fast units too... but give me MDI over Knights in a combined arms slugfest any day of the week.

Now go forth and

 

[DJMGator13]

Reviewed the save, all looks good. I'm surprised that we are Strong to everyone on our continent. Anyone check out the Barbs power graph? It's huge.

I'll change the spears to swords, I think we can conquer a good portion of our continent with them. I can't checkin while I'm playing C3C ever since I loaded cIV, so I'll be back after my turns.

 

[DJMGator13]

Preturn 90 - 750BC
review game - Barbs have the highest score & a huge portion of the Power graph
we are Strong to eveyone except the Barbs
scroll through cities change the 2 spear builds and put the sheep to work
(exit game and make 1 last check of the team thread, since I can't get online during a C3C session anymore)


IBT - London sword => sword
then this

Cuzco deposes with 5 swords in it
York riots - break into sequence to stop any other riots (Canterbury would have riotted also)
Canterbury sword = > sword

Turn 91 - 730BC
Nice start to my turnset, losing half our army to a flip - we've got a 2/4 vSword outside the city, 1 vSword a turn away and 2 vSwords 2 turns away

reposition troops to go after Cuzco again, fix the happiness issue - lux to 50%

IBT - quiet

Turn 92 - 710BC
the 2 vSword are back at Cuzco, can attack with 3 swords and 2 horses next turn

IBT - MAYA want a MA vrs Dutch and ROP, I decline
Nottingham sword => sword
Newcastle barracks => sword

Turn 93 - 690BC
Cuzco (Part 2)
vSword vrs rSpear - we die flawlessly
vSword vrs rSpear - we win down 2hp
vHorse vrs rSpear - we redline retreat, inflict 0 damage
vSword vrs rSpear - we win down 2hp
4/5 eHorse vrs rSpear - we win down 1hp no promo
Cuzco is back under new old management
lux back to 40%, since we got the spices back

IBT - native barb movement west of London
London sword => sword
Inca's building the HG

Turn 94 - 670BC
pull all troops out of Cuzco, let them heal outside of city - move a warrior towards Cuzco for MP duty

SUM has troops on the move so I establish an embassy to see who they are at war with, the answer is no one, are they barb hunting?

IBT - the Dutch and Maya sign a peace deal
Coventry sword => sword
Maya are building HG

Turn 95 - 650BC
Inca's will talk, they'll give either Construction or the city in the fog - not yet, we want more

lose a sword attacking a rArcher on a mt - my rng must be upset because I haven't played a C3C game in a few months
healing rest of troops

IBT - an Inca rSwords attacks our healing troops and kills a sword, a settler/spear pair come out of Machu Picchu
then this

Turn 96 - 630BC
kill the Inca sword, archer and spear capturing 2 workers but I've left a 2/5 eSword exposed
Moved the MP out of Nottingham, hire a taxman

IBT - bhorse nearing London area
Inca kill 2 of our swords, while losing 1 of theirs
London sword => sword
York sword => horse
Canterbury sword => sword

Turn 97 - 610BC
kill an Inca archer, heal troops, move to intercept bhorse
fire taxman since I have an MP in Nottingham

IBT - another bhorse west of London
Newcastle sword => sword

Turn 98 - 590BC
kill an Inca archer and warrior
gathering a new assualt force - we're back to 10 swords - started this round with 11 before the flip

IBT - Inca sword takes out another of our swords, bhorses advance
Nottingham sword => horse
the Dutch learn Republic - we're 6 turns from it

Turn 99 - 570BC
reposition troops, some still healing
lux to 50%

IBT - 2 SUM settler pairs enter our lands / another bhorse comes from the west
London sword => sword

Massive uprising near London - the bcamp to our west will be loaded - we need to spend our money on a tech and just let them pillage Newcastle

Turn 100 - 550BC
look at the pic from MapStat - we got the massive barb uprising but only 1 civ knows Currency - that means the Tech Theif thingy works with only 1 civ knowing the tech - we need to discuss this

our 4/5 eSword dies attacking a rSword - only inflicts 1hp of damage
eHorse takes out the rSword
I can't kill a thing - vHorse dies attacking a rArcher who promos
use a vSword to take out the archer, we promo but now the sword is exposed
I'm forced to move a sword into Cuzco since I don't want to attack an rArcher with a warrior


After Action Report
1) I was forced to fight defensively but we're close to turning the corner and going on the offensive.
2) I'd seriously consider using up our gold and open up Newcastle for the barbs to pillage, no since in fighting them
3) London's at 10spt so it gets a sword every 3 turns
4) Keep as few troops as possible in Cuzco, I had to put a sword in there to attack the Inca archer
5) If we're not too worried about rep we might want to sign up Maya or Sum to an MA vrs the Inca's then make peace and declare on our MA partner
6) We're falling behind the pace of the other teams, hopefully the rng will be better to Scout, it kicked my backside

The save

 

[Sir Bugsy]

We're doing fine. The flip hurt and that was my fault for leaving so many swords there. With the pyramids, our growth and score will take off. Remember that the victory goes to who subdues the barb nation first. Scores isn't anything.

Good comeback gator.

 

[leif erikson]

Nice recovery Gator!!

Our old friend, the RNG, managed to make things tough for us...

Roster:
Scout the Peacelover - UP
Mistfit the AI Irritant - On Deck
Capt. - Recovering from the
Leif - Starting trouble, as usual.
Bugs - Warmonger at heart!
Gator - Just played, spending more time at the RNG Chapel...

C3C seems to allow flips more easily than PtW. One of the reason I've never really warmed up to it.

On the Barb Nation's secret research program, I am wondering if there is a coincidence here? Do you think the Barb Nation could have researched Currency instead of stealing it? Klarius posted in the maintenance thread that the effe3cts of the GLibrary were hardcoded into the game and couldn't be changed. Does anyone know anything different?

OK Scout, let's see the Incan demise, good luck.

 

[DJMGator13]

C3C seems to allow flips more easily than PtW. One of the reason I've never really warmed up to it.

On the Barb Nation's secret research program, I am wondering if there is a coincidence here? Do you think the Barb Nation could have researched Currency instead of stealing it? Klarius posted in the maintenance thread that the effe3cts of the GLibrary were hardcoded into the game and couldn't be changed. Does anyone know anything different?

I can guarantee you two more occasions when C3C will flip cities.
1st - leave an army in a city after the turn of capture
2nd) when you have the AI down to one city

Leif, I didn't even think about the Barbs researching currency, based on the size of their empire that may very well be the case.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I'd say the Barb Nation is researching and

I would not put it past Gythaar to figure out the hard coding for the G L. I'm sure he has figured out a way to make their techs very cheap to research as well.

Obviously has also given them espionage capabilities. We'll have to live with that until we can get our own spies.

 

[leif erikson]

I am almost afraid to think about what lies ahead when we invade the Barb Nation!!

While I thought it might be nice to have Allies, I am convined we need to wipe everyone on our continent out and use every resource we have, and hope they are all here, to go get the Barbs. I think we need to research to Galleons and Military Tradition and have lots, and I mean lots, of Cavs, some Rifles and Cannons, just to survive. Resource cutting anyone.

It is going to be rough, but I'm sure we can warmonger our way through.

As our empire is starting to grow, do we soon need to start thinking about a Forbidden Palace. At least it increases the OCN so the corruption drops some. I thought I read somewhere that in C3C the optimal placement is near the Capital?

 

[Capt Buttkick]

As our empire is starting to grow, do we soon need to start thinking about a Forbidden Palace. At least it increases the OCN so the corruption drops some. I thought I read somewhere that in C3C the optimal placement is near the Capital?

I agree on FP, but we're not close to OCN yet, are we?
The optimal placement for a C3C FP is around 50% corruption from the palace in a high shield and/or gcs city (imhso). That way, the FP city and 3-4 other cities will have lower corruption.
I guess the reason someone would want the FP closer to the capitol is that it's easier to build then. It probably all depends on how fast you expect the game to be over. If you expect a short game, it's better to place the FP close to the capitol and start reaping its benefits asap. Put it further away the longer you expect the game to go on (out to around ~50% raw corruption).

 

[leif erikson]

I'm thinking that once we have Incan and Sumerian lands, we'll need to be thinking about the FP. The question raised for me from your post is whether to save it for a city on the Barb Nation continent or build one to the south in Dutch or Byzantine lands?

In C3C, we can use a Military Great Leader to rush a FP, can't we?


With their scientific traits, we should see if an island, or the tip of a penninsula or some other mostly sea land form exists that we can exile Sumeria and Byzantia to. That we we can trade them into the next ages to get their free techs but never have to worry about being challenged by them as we are taking on that dreaded, evil empire to the east, well, and west!!

 

[DJMGator13]

I would not put it past Gythaar to figure out the hard coding for the G L. I'm sure he has figured out a way to make their techs very cheap to research as well.

I think that's an easy thing to set in the World Builder. I remember seeing that when I was trying to edit the TDG save. So they may have cheaper techs indeed. We should still be able to catch them at some point, but we won't be able to tell, since we can't talk to them.

@leif - I think the MGL can be used on small wonders, so it can rush the FP. I'd rather use it for an army if we are in the war mode, so building the FP by hand as the Capt said in a 50% corruption area is about the best. If we are worried about the tech pace we may want to build it closer to the capital. An early FP never hurts.

 

[scoutsout]

Okay... I'm in The Other City tonight... so I have to mod this machine up to play SGOTM. I'll check back in an hour or so to see if there are any more comments from the team.

I'll probably end up emptying the garrison at Newcastle, but not before seeing if I can find something to spend gold on.

...and I don't plan to do anything to mess up our reputation. That's the sort of thing that you can't undo...and I would need a very good reason (and consensus among the team) to go there.

...and yes, the Forbidden Palace can be rushed with a MGL. Don't count on a FP if I get a MGL on these turns.

 

[scoutsout]

Pre-flight check - 550 BC: Looks like a basic warmonger footing... building units in cities with a rax, and Cuzco is the only city we have without a rax.

Dial up the Maya and buy Literature for 414g straight out. Thinking I could get a two-fer... nobody will trade me Construction.

Let Canturbury work an oyster for a shilling. Since a barb uprising will likely kill most of our citizens in Newcastle, I short-whip a spear, and then whip a sword. (No way that Sword would've completed in 8 turns...) Whip a horseman in York. I really, really do not like the fact that we've got an Enkidu Warrior and archer outside Canturbury. Seriously tempted to whip a Sword at Canturbury...

Treasury stands at 26g +8gpt, Republic in 5.

IBT - the Inca pillage our supply of spices. I count... I think a dozen horses on the western peninsula.

York: Horseman>Horseman (mm for shields)
Coventry: Swordsman>Swordsman
Newcastle: Swordsman>Archer

The Maya (among others) queue up the Great Library.

Turn 1/530 BC - do some worker stuff. I decide to take one Sword off the forest at Cuzco and risk him quelling resistance. Whack the Incan Archer with an Elite Sword, no promotion.

IBT - Inca advance units on Cuzco, take a shot at a fortifed Sword on a mountain... but lose their swordsman in the exchange.

Hastings trains a sword, starts another. Canturbury trains a sword, starts another.

Turn 2/510 BC - resisters in Cuzco are still resisting... I'd love to quell that resistance before we change governments... to whip the population into a Temple Library.

At Cuzco I whack an Incan Archer with an Elite horse, no leader. Whack an Incan sword with a Vet sword. Swords advance from London to corral the Sumerian settler pairs. I wonder if I ought to just let 'em take their chances with the barbs?

Hire a scientist in Newcastle. The barb horses have fortified for some odd reason. Crap... I'm on the machine in The Other City...and I don't remember whether I did the noaipatrol=0 thing.

Save the game off at this point... and go hunting for the file... change the stupid INI file... and move one swordsman to the front.

Swap Coventry off to a worker. It'll grow next turn with 5 shields in the bin. Queue up a Settler in Canturbury. Time to gear up for "raze and replace" warfare.

IBT - Barb horses shuffle about.
London Swordsman>Redux
Coventry worker>Sword
Our Troops quell 1 resister, and Cuzco trains a worker. Queue up a Library.

Inca advance to an unroaded tile outside Cuzco.

Turn 3/490 BC - mostly shuffling troops around. I pull the banged up Swords to the Spices, where I put the worker. Other swords are put back on roads, but out of reach of the Inca.

I decide to let the Sumerians wander through our territory, and take their chances with the barbs.

Byzantines will trade construction for Literature +60g+12gpt. I decide to hold off... I don't want to feed the AI research machine any more than I have to.

IBT - Nottingham Horseman>Redux

Turn 4/470 - pushing troops towards the front...I'm pushing gently, with Republic due next turn... I want to get Construction before the AI won't accept less than Republic for Aqueducts... (not a fair trade, IMO.) Dial up Sumeria and trade Literature + 79g+8gpt for Construction.

Whoops... I overlooked the fact that Netherlands has Republic. This kills me... Dutch won't trade Republic for anything and I am one turn out. Dial up Theodora and sell Literature for 28g.
IBT - Republic comes in, and I... queue up Currency and Revolt. (I hope that wasn't too early...) Draw 5 turns of Anarchy, and boy howdy, is our empire miserable

Turn 5/450 BC - well... I think I just hired more clowns that I have in a long, long time. I don't think we have a single town that's not on a starvation diet.

Fiddling with scientists gets us to Currency in 20t, at breakeven budget. Whack a stupid Incan Sword with our Elite Sword, no leader.

IBT - It takes a Sword an an Archer to do it, but the Inca kill our Elite Swordsman.

Turn 6/430 BC - Time to create some more 'lite units. First I whack an archer with a sword. Then I whack the redlined Archer with an Elite horse. No leader.

Dial up the Maya and trade Republic for Currency+5gpt+129g.

Welcome to the Middle Ages, team. (I hope that wasn't too early...)

To make up for it, I advance a bunch of troops on Macchu Picchu.

Turn 7/410 Dial up Byzantines and sell Currency for 14g. She gets Monotheism, Sumeria has Engineering. Neither will trade. We'll see if they trade with each other next turn. Whack a barb horse at Newcastle. They seem to be coming in one-sies and two-sies. (Okay, maybe three-zees).

Can't get Feudalism faster than 49 turns... so swap a bunch of scientists to tax collectors.

IBT - Barb horses attack our Sword at Newcastle, promoting him to Elite.

Turn 8/390 Advance troops on Macchu Picchu this turn.

IBT - Sumeria dials up demanding Republic, and he has a unit next to an undefended city. issed: I cave.

The English Republic is born (and it's losing 2gpt too!)

Turn 9/370 You gotta be kiddin' me... a single veteran Sword did this?!?!?!

Fine, nobody'll sell me a tech. I can do something else with gold now. Rush a sword in London for 80g. A horse in York for 40. The Settler in Canterbury for 56.

End the Revolution at 61g, +7gpt, Feudalism in 47.

I missed the screenshot... but the Barbarians just started Sun Tzu's Art of War.

Interesting... the Barbarian towns all have Meso-American names... "NEW Teoitihuacan", "NEW Chinook", "NEW Anasazi"...

Turn 10/350 BC

Move a settler into York. There's a spot about halfway between Cuzco and Macchu Picchu that looks good... and will claim a spice that's already roaded.

Enemy Troops have generally been advancing from Tiwanaku. You've got a couple of swords outside Cuzco (and out of enemy range) who should be able to help fend these off until you can get more there.

End the set at 76g+8gpt.

We're short on infrastructure... troops... settlers... land... reminds me of one of those military proverbs...

"When you're short of everything but enemy, you're in combat."

After Action Review:

• The good: I got us another town, with a lux. I got us a couple of techs too. And we're a Republic now.
• The bad: I only got us one town. And we're still a few turns from re-claiming the spices... so the new lux isn't a "Net" new lux yet.
• The Ugly: We're a Republic now.

 

[leif erikson]

So much for Scout the peacelover!!

Let's see, we're in the Middle Ages, a Republic and we're pounding Incans! Sounds like a good day to me. Loved reading your turn log!!

Roster:
Mistfit - UP
Capt - On Deck
Leif
Bugs
Gator
Scout - Just played, from some other town!

Ok Mistfit, don't have to worry too much about irritating the AI this turn set. More like wiping out the Incans!

Seems as though the Barb Nation had it roots in Azteca?

 

[scoutsout]

Well... I didn't think it one of my greatest sets... but then again... half of it was in anarchy. Not much fun, but it needed to be done.

@Mistfit: You've got 4 swords outside that town to the north. I whacked an archer that came out of that town last turn... so it shouldn't be too heavily defended.

We are seriously hurting for infrastructure. I recommend we keep research on a scientist and do a little short-rushing here and there.

 

[Capt Buttkick]

We are seriously hurting for infrastructure. I recommend we keep research on a scientist and do a little short-rushing here and there.

Agree. We're set on pointy stick research anyway.
scout