SGOTM 11 - ChokoMisfits

[haphazard1]

No marble in sight so far, but we could try for an easier Oracle grab: CoL or MC. Not nearly as powerful a boost as CS, but much much easier to achieve. Whether it is worth it to spend beakers on religious techs just to make a grab for CoL or MC...we would have to think about that.

Pyramids is an interesting possibility, since we have stone within reach. With Math to improve chops and fast workers, our capital could generate a lot of hammers very quickly. Fast workers give us the option of pre-chopping lots of forests without losing worker turns on all the moving around. We could set up for a massive chop-fest, but not actually commit any hammers until we could chop the entire wonder in 2-3 turns. (Ideally one, but we won't have that many fast workers yet.)

How do we want to handle expanding borders in our second city? Libraries are expensive and will take quite a lot of time. Is it worth it to whip one pop for a monument? Of course, we would have to have Mysticism to do that...but if we do want the Oracle, we will need it sooner rather than later anyway. Our proposed city#2 on the plains hill has the oasis in the inner ring, and that's about it. Leaving its borders unpopped until we can build a library would take a lot of time, and leave us open to cultural pressure from Zara.

I don't normally like to build monuments if I have an alternative, but we may want one in this case.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Pyramids is an interesting possibility, since we have stone within reach. With Math to improve chops and fast workers, our capital could generate a lot of hammers very quickly. Fast workers give us the option of pre-chopping lots of forests without losing worker turns on all the moving around. We could set up for a massive chop-fest, but not actually commit any hammers until we could chop the entire wonder in 2-3 turns. (Ideally one, but we won't have that many fast workers yet.)

Yes, we definitely should complete Masonry soon and start building The Pyramids (after a couple of Settlers).

How do we want to handle expanding borders in our second city? Libraries are expensive and will take quite a lot of time. Is it worth it to whip one pop for a monument? Of course, we would have to have Mysticism to do that...but if we do want the Oracle, we will need it sooner rather than later anyway. Our proposed city#2 on the plains hill has the oasis in the inner ring, and that's about it. Leaving its borders unpopped until we can build a library would take a lot of time, and leave us open to cultural pressure from Zara.

I don't normally like to build monuments if I have an alternative, but we may want one in this case.

Religion is another option, but there isn't one on our Continent and completing Monotheism 1st is probably our best chance of getting one soon, right?

However, for our second City, building a Monument seems better than a Library, given the scarcity of Forests there and how long building a Library would take.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Just wondering why all our warriors are all named after Indian cricketers? Just realised.

Anyway take this as a got it.

Planned tech path. Carry on with the wheel, pot, writing. I would normally say once writing is in turn off tech until we get a lib up. Being philo I think we should wait for an academy as well. I do think we should tech AH as well though before turning down tech. I agree our second city should be used as a blocker. Hopefully we will get the ph site. If not will have to wait to see where Zara settles.

City builds. I think Delhi should build warriors till size 5 then start a settler for our second site. Once size 5 we can 2 pop whip/chop him and keep our best tiles in use. One of the workers should start building a road towards the ph site as soon as the wheel is in. We should also have some fogbusters out. One on the ph is definitely needed. Would probably move the one in Delhi out now to that site

Need to explore more. Find out if any of the coast sites have seafood?

Will plan on playing in approx 24 hours from now so plenty of time for comments/suggestions.

Edit Aksum is still size 3 so likely Zara is building a settler now.

Sleepless, your Plan sounds very good! Especially like the plan for an early Academy; we will need it to win.

After Writing, we can do Masonry, connect Stone Quarry and build The Pyramids, after a couple of Settlers and more Workers.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[haphazard1]

If we want Pyramids (and I agree that we do, since we have stone), we are going to want Math to boost the hammers from our chops. Fortunately we can work on all the pre-chopping without Math, and only start finishing all the chops at the end once we complete Math, using our fast workers for speed.

We may also want to fit Animal Husbandry in somewhere, so we can improve the cows and reveal horses.

Religious techs...I do not think we have a realistic chance at Monotheism, even if we started for it right now. Presumably it will fall to one of the AIs. Confucianism or Christianity are more likely to be possibilities, depending on how we choose our tech path.

 

[ianw1610]

We start with Mysticism anyway which should help. In the test game I built Stonehenge to get a free Monument in each city, but not sure we can afford such a hammer investment here.

I think our best chance of a religion is Code of Laws from The Oracle.

Good Luck, Sleepless!!

 

[Sleepless]

Can't say a lot happened in the turns I played but there are some things to note.

Tech Path finished the wheel/pot then on to writing, currently 9 turns to go.

Had a few barb fights and all our warriors were victorious. Downside we are paying costs for one of them and if we move another out of our borders we will pay for that as well.

I let the chop Ian was doing finish and let that go into a settler, then back to building warriors, stopped building them once I realised it was costing us. We currently have 7. I started back on the settler once we hit size 4 and stopped now because we can whip it and the worker has finished roading (just about to) towards the new site. I don't think we need another road but the other worker has just finished our first cottage so if needs be he can build one on the grass hill.

Explored a bit more and have a few fogbusters out. Note there is a barb warrior near Sachin. More land to our West and looks like its a seperate landmass/island to our North.

EP points I have set them all to Zara so if we want we can adjust them later. Note though Zara has met someone else by the EP points so obviously another landmass to our East. Aksum has also grown to size 4, no sign of a settler, perhaps he was building a worker.

Stopped here as we can whip the new settler for 2 pop but until he settles and Delhi grows it will up our unit costs. Otoh with the cows/wheat/oasis it will make a good early settler/unit pump, so the quicker its settled the sooner we get the monument and border pops.

There is quite a bit of food to the West meaning we should be able to produce lots of GPs. Doesn't seem a lot of production though.

Our explored lands.

See the map makers hands in this. Also think there is a good chance of iron under Delhi but will have to wait and see.

last I started mining one of the tundra hills then realised we would be better off pre chopping. Luckily with Buffy Mod it stops one turn before the chop finishes and lets you know how many turns to go before the chop finishes.

Here is your Session Turn Log from 2950 BC to 2525 BC:

Spoiler :

Turn 42, 2950 BC: Barbarian's Wolf (0.40) vs Gandhi's Rahul Dravid (Warrior) (3.20)
Turn 42, 2950 BC: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 42, 2950 BC: (Animal Combat: +10%)
Turn 42, 2950 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 42, 2950 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 38 (2/100HP)
Turn 42, 2950 BC: Barbarian's Wolf is hit for 38 (0/100HP)
Turn 42, 2950 BC: Gandhi's Rahul Dravid (Warrior) has defeated Barbarian's Wolf!

Turn 45, 2875 BC: You have discovered The Wheel!
Turn 45, 2875 BC: Barbarian's Lion (2.00) vs Gandhi's Sachin Tendulkar (Warrior) (2.70)
Turn 45, 2875 BC: Combat Odds: 21.3%
Turn 45, 2875 BC: (Animal Combat: +10%)
Turn 45, 2875 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 45, 2875 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 45, 2875 BC: Gandhi's Sachin Tendulkar (Warrior) is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 45, 2875 BC: Gandhi's Sachin Tendulkar (Warrior) is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 45, 2875 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 45, 2875 BC: Gandhi's Sachin Tendulkar (Warrior) is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 45, 2875 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 45, 2875 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 45, 2875 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 45, 2875 BC: Gandhi's Sachin Tendulkar (Warrior) has defeated Barbarian's Lion!

Turn 49, 2775 BC: Barbarian's Lion (2.00) vs Gandhi's Warrior 2 (Capital) (2.20)
Turn 49, 2775 BC: Combat Odds: 32.2%
Turn 49, 2775 BC: (Animal Combat: +10%)
Turn 49, 2775 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 49, 2775 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 49, 2775 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 49, 2775 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 2 (Capital) is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 49, 2775 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 2 (Capital) is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 49, 2775 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 2 (Capital) is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 49, 2775 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 2 (Capital) is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 49, 2775 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 49, 2775 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 2 (Capital) is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 49, 2775 BC: Barbarian's Lion is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 49, 2775 BC: Gandhi's Warrior 2 (Capital) has defeated Barbarian's Lion!

Turn 50, 2750 BC: You have trained a Warrior in Capital. Work has now begun on a Settler.

Turn 51, 2725 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (1.36) vs Gandhi's Mahendra Singh Dhoni (Warrior) (3.00)
Turn 51, 2725 BC: Combat Odds: 0.5%
Turn 51, 2725 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 51, 2725 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 51, 2725 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 25 (37/100HP)
Turn 51, 2725 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 25 (12/100HP)
Turn 51, 2725 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 51, 2725 BC: Gandhi's Mahendra Singh Dhoni (Warrior) has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

Turn 53, 2675 BC: You have discovered Pottery!
Turn 53, 2675 BC: You have trained a Warrior in Capital. Work has now begun on a Settler.

Turn 56, 2600 BC: You have trained a Warrior in Capital. Work has now begun on a Settler.
Turn 56, 2600 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Gandhi's Rahul Dravid (Warrior) (2.00)
Turn 56, 2600 BC: Combat Odds: 50.0%
Turn 56, 2600 BC: Gandhi's Rahul Dravid (Warrior) is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 56, 2600 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 56, 2600 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 56, 2600 BC: Gandhi's Rahul Dravid (Warrior) is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 56, 2600 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 56, 2600 BC: Gandhi's Rahul Dravid (Warrior) is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 56, 2600 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 56, 2600 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 56, 2600 BC: Gandhi's Rahul Dravid (Warrior) has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

Turn 59, 2525 BC: Capital can hurry Settler for 2? with 19? overflow and +1? for 15 turns.

 

[Sleepless]

Quick couple of thoughts. Looking at the land we can see rep would be a big civic to run so an early run at the mids is a good idea. Personally I would settle 1S of the stone so it can use the bronze tile and get the stone up asap.

We do need a coastal city asap as well so we can find the other AI/trade routes etc but I think that will have to wait for city 4.

I would still prefer to turn off tech though after writing until we get our first Academy. Although masonry/AH are quite high up on the list to get as well.

 

[ianw1610]

Good turnset, Sleepless - no Warriors eaten this time!

None of the required 4 resources are yet in sight, so we may need to obtain these by way of overseas warring.

There is a distinct lack of happiness resources in general - only Silver now, and Incense to follow, post-Calendar. Early Representation would boost our happiness (as would Hereditary Rule, if we had enough military units).

Sun Tzu Wu up next.

 

[JerichoHill]

Tentatively agreed on the 2nd City Stone Mids Route with Chops. That land is ripe for Rep. Not alot of happiness but that is not a big deal.

But why are we NOT blocking with our 2nd city at the labeled 2nd city site? We could possibly be giving up 3 resources to a rival? ???

I want to ask if the cost of potentially allowing a city site across the desert go to a cultural rival is worth the turns saved towards the Mids. I don't honestly know.

Can't we build Settler #3 now and send him to claim the stone having had our workers prechop with warrior protection?

 

[Sleepless]

Tentatively agreed on the 2nd City Stone Mids Route with Chops. That land is ripe for Rep. Not alot of happiness but that is not a big deal.

But why are we NOT blocking with our 2nd city at the labeled 2nd city site? We could possibly be giving up 3 resources to a rival? ???

I want to ask if the cost of potentially allowing a city site across the desert go to a cultural rival is worth the turns saved towards the Mids. I don't honestly know.

Can't we build Settler #3 now and send him to claim the stone having had our workers prechop with warrior protection?

Second city still is going to be a blocking city on the plains hill. Otherwise I've wasted a lot of turns roading to it.

Third city should be for the stone/masonry/mids. If we go that route which I think we should.

My main concern is do we whip the settler now? It will bump our unit costs up but get our second city up 6 turns earlier.

 

[haphazard1]

Gah! Forgot we were India and have Mysticism already.

I agree with JerichoHill about pushing for more cities rapidly. Especially if we plan to turn off tech for a while after Writing, we will be able to afford to put a couple cities down. Blocking Zara for city #2 on the plains hill with wheat, oasis, cow, incense. Something for the stone and copper for city #3.

I also think we should whip the settler for city #2 right now. Our unit costs will go up, but only for a few turns at most. The capital will grow back very fast working both corn. And getting the new city started growing 6 turns earlier is worth a lot, longer term.

Looking at the screenshot...yummy food in the west. The tile 1 NE of the fish...+14 food at size 6! Could be an incredible GP farm, or a massive Globe Theater whipping/drafting city. We might want to break up all that food into two (or even three) cities, but one mega-city is a possibility to keep in mind. Caste, pacifism, and Nat Epic there would be 7 specialists at size 13, for 66 GPP per turn (before any other wonders). With rep it would also get a free 21 bpt before modifiers, 42 bpt if we ran scientists there. Plus commerce from the lakes and fish.

Of course, as others have already noted it may be difficult to grow a city that large. Our lands are not overflowing with luxuries. Getting a coastal city and some more info about other lands will be critical for finding more, or meeting AIs who might trade more. We will need to develop the additional silver and incense sources eventually for trade purposes.

I also agree that we need to be pre-chopping around the capital, as preparation for the Pyramids. Make sure you have the Buffy option set to stop one turn before finishing chops or building over improvements -- very handy settings, those. At least if you occasionally forget, like me. And please remember to put signs on tiles which are pre-chopped.

Nice turnset, Sleepless.

 

[Sleepless]

@Haphazard it doesn't show but 3S of the cow is another fish but I would use that with the deer. As I said lots of food but very little production.

@ianw1610 Should of looked up some more Indian cricketers before I started. I could only remember a couple.

 

[haphazard1]

I have not downloaded the latest save to see the whole map; I was just looking at the screenshot you posted. And as I said, we may want to split up the food to get several good cities rather than one mega-city.

But as long as we have food, the whip will turn out the hammers we need.

At least until we decide to shift to Caste....

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I loaded the current save.

Initial turn set plan:

Research path:

Writing -> Mathematics; At start of Mathematics Research slider will be set to 00%. Plan to Whip Library and immediately work 2 Scientists for 13t (future turn set), GS -> Academy -> Research slider 100%.

Delhi:

I'd like to build a Granary in Delhi to make our future whipping more Food efficient. We can do this before or after whipping the Settler, but I prefer after so we don't lose City site #2. I'd also like to maximize the Population before whipping, so on average we will have more Citizens working Tiles while growing back from using the Whip. After the Settler whip this turn (not next), Delhi will grow back immediately to Pop 3 0/39. A Granary will be started. I'm inclined to work the Cottage before the Silver Mine to increase its Commerce output ASAP. When Delhi grows back to Population 4, the Silver Mine will be worked. At Population 6 x/48 where x < 42, the Granary will be whipped and the next Population growth delayed 1+ turns so it will utilize the Granary.

Next build should be 2 Workers and Settler for City Site 1S of Stone, but that will be th e next turn set or later.

Worker will continue building 2 more Cottages.

Other worker will return from building Road to City #2 and will pre-Chop Forests in Delhi.

Unattached Warriors:

Plan to wait for Barbarian Warrior (noted on Map) to attack one of our Warriors on a Forest or Forest Hill + Fortified somewhat. Failing that will destroy the Barbarian Warrior with minimal risk.

Other Warrior will fog bust (Sentry) in about their current locations on Hills, preferably Forested.

Closest Warrior to unrevealed Tiles, will explore those, looking for a land bridge to the next Continent, if any exists.

City #2 to be built ASAP:

Initial build will be a Monument for 1 Culture/turn. The Oasis will be worked for 11t (3 Commerce/turn), and the City will become Pop 2 and will Whip the remainder of the Monument. (Alternatively, the PHF can be worked and the Monument completed in 9t with no growth and whip and only 1 Commerce/turn.)

Third City location should be 2 Tiles south of Pig. This will be our Great Person Farm as previously mentioned.

Dot Maps:

I will use Dot Maps to denote all our future City Sites. Alt-X toggles Dot Map edit mode and Ctrl-X toggles Dot Map reveal/hide mode.

Please let me know of anything I've missed.

I plan to play the turn set Monday evening. (We are way ahead of all the other Teams; we are perhaps moving through the early Game a bit too fast for "optimal play".)

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Since I don't expect to play the turn until Monday evening, I uploaded the Save with the Dot Maps added.

City #2 has two Dot maps. One adjacent to Shore and another 1S of Stone. We need to decide which one to use. I prefer 1S of Stone, so it can work a Copper Mine.

The upload simply repeated the previous turn sets log which I ignored.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sleepless]

Plan sounds good.

I agree with 1S of stone. It means we can hook it up without a border pop. Farms and workshops it won't be a bad prod site. Assuming we will be running caste a lot of the time. Benefits of spiritual.

Also like the GP city site.

 

[JerichoHill]

Hooking up stone without waiting for borders = faster mids = faster Rep

Agreed with 1S

 

[ianw1610]

Looking good. If we do want fast Pyramids, don't forget to research Masonry very soon!

If the fortified Warrior in the North West (Rahul Dravid) takes a walk to the N / NE he should find some more unexplored land up there.

Anyway, I'm off on a business trip to Switzerland first thing tomorrow, and I'll be away from my Civ computer until I return. I'll try to visit this thread a couple of times while I'm away. I'll be back home next Sunday afternoon, when I'll look to update the front-page posts with all up-to-date info...

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Looking good. If we do want fast Pyramids, don't forget to research Masonry very soon!

Thanks for the suggestion regarding Masonry. It should go immediately after Writing making our Tech path:

Writing -> Masonry -> Mathematics

If the fortified Warrior in the North West (Rahul Dravid) takes a walk to the N / NE he should find some more unexplored land up there.

I'll keep this mind when I start my turn set on Monday evening.

Anyway, I'm off on a business trip to Switzerland first thing tomorrow, and I'll be away from my Civ computer until I return. I'll try to visit this thread a couple of times while I'm away. I'll be back home next Sunday afternoon, when I'll look to update the front-page posts with all up-to-date info...

So, while you are gone, we just continue the turn set rotation 2-4 days per turn set, right?

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[ianw1610]

So, while you are gone, we just continue the turn set rotation 2-4 days per turn set, right?

I know JerichoHill said he was unavailable until something like May 6th, so the rota for the week will look something like this:

Sun Tzu Wu's turnset - Monday

McArine's turnset - Wednesday/Thursday (or later if necessary)

JerichoHill's turnset - Friday/Saturday/Sunday (or later if necessary)

...and then if Mighty Dwaarf is still not back from his honeymoon by then, we can return the rotation to the top of the roster, with haphazard1...