SGOTM 11 - Fifth Element

[Mitchum]

Hmmm... in my test I got Settler #2 on T54 and settled Bombay by the silver on T55. And in this test, I actually finished the warrior before starting the worker. I may be able to beat this by one turn if I go stright to the worker after growing to 3. My build in the capital was warrior #2 -> worker #1 -> Settler #2.

Actually, I think the build in the capital should be warrior #2 (consensus) -> worker #1 -> warrior #3 -> Settler #2. The third warrior can either fogbust west or explore east, whichever warrior #2 didn't do (if that makes sense). The silver wasn't hooked up until T58 or T59, so delaying Bombay doesn't hurt much. My worker went corn -> corn -> partial farm (1 turn) -> mine silver.

 

[Mitchum]

I'll post my actual moves and an autolog later. My wife is after me to finish my project...

 

[Dhoomstriker]

What you missed is that i grew to 4 BEFORE start my settler. So i delayed Bombay, but probably anticipated city 3. That needs to be tested. Tomorrow. Not by me. Strike until Thursday.

From my understanding, you are growing to Size 4 before building Settler 2.

Until we have the Grassland River Irrigated, the best that we can work at Size 4 is one more 3 (Food + Hammers) square. The tradeoff of delaying the Settler is not worth doing so.


IF we'd built a Worker earlier and IF it had a 4th square to improve and IF it could improve that square on the turn that we grew to Size 4 or before that, you MIGHT make a case for growing, but that situation is not the case.

I can tell you right now from having run some tests earlier when I was talking about pumping out two Warriors after the Worker that I discovered that the effect that growing in this way only delayed our empire growth, instead of increasing it. That's why I started pushing for:
Scenario a) Grow to 3 -> Worker 1 -> complete Warrior 2 -> Settler 2 -> Warrior 3 -> Grow to Size 4 (it only takes 4 turns to grow) -> Complete Warrior 3 in 1 turn -> Settler 3

instead of what I mentioned as an idea but later discarded after testing it:
Scenario b) Grow to 3 -> Worker 1 -> complete Warrior 2 -> Warrior 3 -> Grow to Size 4 (it takes a long time--8 turns--to grow) -> Complete Warrior 3 in 1 turn -> Settler 2 -> Settler 3


Scenario a) was the far better option in my tests, because by the time that the city was ready to grow, the Corns were actually irrigated, so City growth could happen in a far smaller number of turns (half of the time!). Add on top of that the earlier settling of City 2, and we have ourselves a winning scenario.


EDIT from here and below:
Can we get Settler 3 out even faster, say with a Scenario c)? The answer is yes, but I say that doing so is very risky, as we won't have enough Warriors to support that Settler in founding City 3
The one extra Food or Hammer from working a 3 (Food + Hammers) square at Size 4 doesn't really help much. If, for example, we add a Scenario c), which is identical to Scenario a) but where we skip building Warrior 3 and skip growing to Size 4, we will STILL beat Scenario b)'s time to complete Settler 3.

Growing to Size 4 is not really a gain in terms of how quickly we can get the Settler out, as Scenario c) would get us a faster Settler than Scenario a). However, I am happy to get Warrior 3 in there, as if we can't fog-bust properly for Settler 3, it won't matter how soon we build it: it will have to spend turns hiding, waiting for another Warrior or two to be built, before it can settle to the east. It would be better to get the 3 Warriors (1 from the capitol and 2 in that timeframe from City 2) out there, fog-busting and scouting out City 3's location.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

I'm uploading the latest test saved game.

I took BLubmuz' planned relocation of Paris, but I did so in a game where we are back on Turn 18.

Also, I adjusted some missing and extra Forests which will determine how many squares our next cultural expansion will help to fog-bust.

Finally, I threw in the same signs that Irgy added, so that you don't have to keep his screenshot open in order to see where the animals were last spotted, while adding another Barb sign by the Warrior, just so that there is no chance of confusion as to which saved game you are playing.

 

[unclethrill]

Okay so while I love the discussions, most of the topics fall after my TS since I plan to stop as soon as the worker is finished. So the question at hand is:

a) Warrior -> worker (as soon as the warrior is done) -> End TS with both units
b) Warrior -> worker (as soon as the city grows) -> End TS with 1 turn left on warrior


I understand the arguments for both and based on the timeframe for the settler being done in the tests, I will concede that we would lose 1 turn on either the PH or the Silver (based on the fact that I don't see us having both done prior to the Settler) (8 *2 for farm + 5 for silver mine + 5 PH mine = 26 Turns + 2 movement (1 to PH, 1 to silver) = 28 turns) So if Dhoom shows the settler down on T55 and worker finished on T35 (choice B) then we have only 20 turns. That means that the 2 corn are done and we have 2 turns on silver (one movement + 5 turns to mine). This negates the PH from the calculation since the 1 turn is lost on the silver due to the city being settled already IMO. ( I get the calcs so yes one turn is lost on the PH but not contributing to settler)

The votes so far are:

a) Unclethrill, Havr, Irgy
b) Mitchum, Dhoom, BLubmuz (I think he changed his mind in post 498 )


If we all agree, then Tata is the tie breaker. Can you confirm your change of vote BLubmuz?

If Tata doesn't vote by this evening and BLubmuz confirms his change of vote, then I will go with choice B since with a tie our Fearless leader's vote will carry the extra weight to tilt the scale.

Everyone okay with this? I believe it is in the spirit of the rules set forth.

 

[BLubmuz]

Until we have the Grassland River Irrigated, the best that we can work at Size 4 is one more 3 (Food + Hammers) square. The tradeoff of delaying the Settler is not worth doing so.

I agree. we gain only 1H for the settler, since the city needs 2 more food. Better have the settler for Bombay out sooner and then grow quickly to 4 while building 2 much needed warriors.

This makes the 2 farms > mine silver > mine PH the only way to go.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

A minor point about where our Warriors will come from

I agree. we gain only 1H for the settler, since the city needs 2 more food. Better have the settler for Bombay out sooner and then grow quickly to 4 while building 2 much needed warriors.

Everything that you said there sounds right, except that in either case I tested, of Warrior 3 -> Settler 2 or Settler 2 -> Warrior 3, City 1 will grow 1 turn sooner than the Warrior is complete. So, we will only build one Warrior in the capitol before proceeding to Settler 3, not two Warriors.

That said, in the same amount of time that it will take to complete:
City 1 : Worker 1/Warrior 2 -> Warrior 2/Worker 1 -> Settler 2 -> Warrior 3 -> Settler 3,
we will have built the following in City 2:
Warrior 4 -> Warrior 5 -> start on something else (Warrior 6 in case one dies?) before Settler 3 is complete.


The value of fog-busting in the west with our first 2 Warriors
Now, because AI units help to fog-bust and their units also help to destroy Barb units, our east and north areas can get their help. Our west is still vulnerable.


Since it is clear that the "Warrior 3 -> Settler 2" path is too poor a choice compared to "Settler 2 -> Warrior 3," the implication is that we will not get Warrior 3 out until after the crucial Turn 50, when Barb Archers start to spawn.


WE DO NOT CARE if the Barb Archers spawn SOMEWHERE in the world. They won't enter our borders for a good number of turns. But, if we can prevent them spawning in the WEST, we DO CARE A LOT! Preventing them from spawning (or maybe allowing the odd 1 spawning randomly over time in the tiny gaps in our fog coverage) brings the overall game difficulty down to Monarch level, as it secures a great number of decent city sites for us to the west.


As a result, Warrior 2 has two duties:
- Scout the Silver area to see if there is a better spot. He will have time to do so if he comes out after Worker 2 comes out and still have time to start moving towards the west in time to watch as a Lion disappears and he takes the Lion's place in fog-busting.

Spoiler Why the south COULD be better :

If there is a Fish or two to the south of the Silver, then we'll have a decision to make. 1-2 Fish could help support a minor early Great Person farm, whereas many Lakes may give us plenty of Food, they won't do so at small enough of a population to be able to grow large enough to keep working them and have extra citizens for Specialists early enough in the game.

Of course, if there aren't any seafood Resouces to the south of the Deer, then we've already picked the best spot to settle.

- Fog-bust the west immediately after. Warrior 3 won't come out until the mid-to-late 50s in terms of turns, and the next ones will come out shortly thereafter. Using one of them to fog-bust would mean that we'd have to fight against Archers just to do so.


Summary
Therefore, although Unclethrill's turnset may appear to be boring, with possibly only Warrior 1 to move or possibly also with Warrior 2 moving, but with Warrior 2 limited to moving south then west, his Warrior 1 movements will shape the entire future of our game. I know that the east looks tempting for Warrior 2, but there will be no other Warriors available to look south, and no other Warriors available to fog-bust west.

However, Unclethrill's turnset will be very important: keeping that Warrior 1 alive is going to be a tough battle, but doing so gives us a Monarch-level game. Losing that Warrior gives us the full bore of Emperor-level Archers, which means we'll have to sink plenty of Hammers into Axemen or a similar anit-Archer unit, while our plans were calling for us avoiding spending early Hammers on military units.

 

[Mitchum]

OK, I re-read the last 4 pages of posts last night. I decided to play another test game which follows Dhoomstriker’s scenario a (Grow to 3 -> Worker 1 -> complete Warrior 2 -> Settler 2 -> Warrior 3 -> Settler 3), which I think is the best option. I played it last night but ran out of time to post it, so here it is:

T18 – Hit space bar with warrior until lion appears.
T20 – Grow to 3. Switch build to worker (15). Agriculture in 10
T22 – Warrior kills lion. I checked the combat log and the warrior did in fact get a fortify bonus (I never knew that).
T24 – Warrior fortified in forest 1E of marble.
T30 – Agriculture to Masonry (11)
T35 – Worker to warrior 2. Farm northern corn.
T36 – Warrior 2 done (explores Silver City and then east = mistake). Set build to settler 2.
T41 – Masonry to Monotheism.
T50 – Both corns farmed.
T51 – Partial farm 2 south of capital
T52 – See first barb warrior. Start mine on silver.
T54 – Settler 2 done. Start warrior #3 (5 turns). Citizens on 2 corns and plains hill for commerce (reduces Monotheism from 7 turns to 6 turns). Grow in 5 (synchronized with warrior).
T55 – See barb archer in northern peninsula!!! Settle Silver City. Build set to warrior. Citizen on un-mined silver. 13 beakers and 1 gold at 80%.
T57 – Silver mine done. 18 beakers at 90%.
T58 – Partial farm
T59 – Start plains hill mine. Learn Monotheism and start BW. Warrior 3 (explores north) -> settler 3. Grow to 4 (two corns and two 2F1H tiles)
T61 – Silver City completes warrior 4 (heads west to fog bust southern peninsula). Starts warrior 5.
T64 – Warrior 4 finds barb city in southern peninsula 1W of pigs guarded by 3 archers!! Plains hill mine done. Citizens work 2 corn, plains hill and 2F1H tile. Settler in 6. BW in 7.
T65 – Worker starts farm 2S of capital. Only takes 6 turns, not 8, due to my 2 partial farm turns.
T67 – Silver City finishes warrior 5 (heads NE) and starts Stonehenge for fail gold.
T70 – Settler 3 done. Start worker 2. Farm done. Citizens on 2 corn, 1 farm (3F 1C) and plains hill mine.
T71 – Learned BW -> Priesthood. Revolt to Slavery and OR. Worker 1 goes to hill 2E of capital to start chopping. Lost warrior on forested hill to archer + warrior attack.
T73 – Settle city #3 and start warrior. 13 beakers +1 gold at 60%. Covert to Hindu.
T77 – Worker 2 done in capital. Start Temple of Artemis for 1 turn. Get 38 fail gold from Stonehenge in Silver City -> start Great Wall.
T78 – Learn Priesthood -> Writing. Switch build in capital to Oracle.
T79 – Get 8 fail gold from Great Wall in Silver City. Start TofA. Silver City could pump out warrior if we need them at this point.
T82 – Delhi grows to 5. Extra citizen goes to grassland hill mine (1F 3H 1C), which was just completed by both workers (perfect timing).
T88 – Learn Writing -> Meditation.
T90 – Complete Oracle in Delhi with 3 chops total. Take CoL. Start Hindu temple.
T91 – Whip temple.
T92 – Finish temple – Start settler 4 (10 turns). Citizens on 2 corn, plains hill mine, grassland hill mine and priest (Great Prophet in 14 turns)
T101 – Archer enters borders from the west!!! I world build in a musket so that I don't disrupt my test...
T104 – Settle city 4.
T106 – Great Prophet bulbs Theology. Christianity founded in city #4. At this point, I’d like to revolt to no state religion to all border to expand quickly in city 4.

Key points:
1. Tech path was Polytheism -> Agriculture -> Masonry -> Monotheism -> Bronze Working (I saw a few test games that went PH next) -> Priesthood -> Writing -> Meditation (so GPro can bulb Theology)
2. Build in capital was partial warrior 2 -> worker 1 -> complete warrior 2 -> settler 2 –> warrior 3 -> settler 3 (warrior 4 was built in Silver City) -> worker 2 -> TofA (for 1 turn) -> Oracle -> temple
3. First barb warrior was seen on T52. First barb archer on T55. First barb city T64. Barbs started entering our culture on T101.
4. Fail gold allowed me to crank up the science slider, which brought in Writing by several turns.

Key learnings:

1. The build path used is the most efficient in getting cities 2 and 3 down quickly. City 4 follows quickly after. See here for details why
2. According to Dhoomstriker, we need our fog busters in place on the peninsula by T50. Therefore, warrior 2 (T36) should scout Silver City and then head directly to the peninsula, not scout east. In my game, the barb city was pumping out archers, all of which headed straight for us. If we don’t have copper in one of our cities, we’ll be cooked for sure!! Therefore, I propose the following movements with our warriors:
a. Warrior 1 – Stay on the peninsula and fog bust the northern half (either on the marble or 1 tile E)
b. Warrior 2 (T36) – Explore Silver City location and then fog bust southern half of the peninsula
c. Warrior 3 (T59) – Start looking for a decent spot NE for city #3 (settler will done in 11 turns&#8230
d. Warrior 4 (T61 from Silver City) – Start looking for a decent spot E for city #3.
e. Warrior 5 (T67 from Silver City) – Head east to help fog bust (assumes warriors on peninsula are in place and fog busting with no issues)

Edit: Crosspost with Dhoomstriker. His suggestion with warriors matches mine.

 

[Mitchum]

As a team we need to decide if 15 turns of exploration is worth 6F and 2H. Now to be clear we are talking about a 1 time 6F and 2H. This isn't something that carries on. In fact as soon as we have 1 turn where the worker has nothing to do, the whole argument falls apart. we have the extra 8 floating through our city until that point and then one turn of idle means that the 6 + 2 is applied and no longer a bonus.

This is an old post, but I just wanted to clear this up as the above comment is not entirely true. It is true that this is a one time thing that does not carry on. If our worker actually had something useful to do after the initial improvements, the advantages would continue to snowball, but that is not the case in this game.

However, what is incorrect is the last statement stating that these 13 (or 8) basic units floating through our city go away at the first idle worker turn. Maybe I'm misunderstood you, but I read this to say that the test with 1 less worker turn will actually catch up and eliminate those bonus units. This is not true.

As a quick example, lets focus on the silver. If I improve this tile 1 turn sooner than you and we both have a citizen ready to work that tile, on T1 I'll have 3H 6C and you'll have 2H 2C (assumes you work the unimproved silver on T0). On T2, we'll both get 3H 6C. I will have a total of 6H 12C and you'll have 5H and 8C. This continues on and you'll never regain those lost 1H and 4C.

 

[Mitchum]

I would agree, for a Diplo game.

For a Cultural game, the Shrines can be somewhat useful, as our economy will stink when we are building Cathedrals in place of Markets, Grocers, and Universities. Considering that our capitol will probably spawn most of our empire's non-Great-Artist Great People, and will probably spawn random ones due to having different Wonders built there (moreso for a Cultural game--Diplo game we might want to focus more on additional expansion or war). Still, the Holy Shrine stuff was just a minor point anyway, as each one only adds 1 Great Person Point per turn. It was the early spread of a religion that could become our State Religion that had me most interested.

I think we need to narrow in on what which victory condition we are targeting. All of this back and forth between diplo and cultural will start causing some sub-optimal decisions soon. We should be focused on our intended victory condition like a laser, no?

For example, if we’re going diplo, we need to start thinking about how we will get a Great Engineer soon. In my last diplo game, I got my GE late even though I was focused on it from the beginning. In addition, it came at ~75%, so it could have failed very easily. If going diplo, we should be thinking about our GE-generating city so that we can build an aqueduct, Hanging Gardens, forge and hire an engineer to start generating some GE gpp as soon as possible. This isn’t a big deal if we’re going cultural. Instead, we would be focusing on finding legendary city locations, a GP farm and a production city to build all of our missionaries.

I would like to take a straw poll to see where people stand right now.

POLL

A. Focus on diplo victory.
B. Focus on cultural victory.
C. Keep options open until the religion beeline is completed and/or we’ve scouted north and east to get a better lay of the land.​

I vote for option A: Focus on a diplo victory now with the following additions:

1. Re-write our high-level strategy now with this victory condition in mind
2. Put together a great person plan, including when we want them, where they will likely be generated, what flavor we want, and our intended use for each (e.g. build academy, bulb tech X, settle, etc.)
3. Put together our intended tech path after the religion beeline. We’ll be at about T106 with only 3 worker techs (Agriculture, Mining and BW). How can we close this gap so that our cities can begin to be more productive?
4. Others?

I think we can discuss this in parallel with unclethrill’s turn set. The earlier we start discussing and agreeing on this, the faster our future turn sets will go. If we don’t do this, we’ll be doing tons of testing and talking between each turn set, thus delaying our entire game.

 

[Mitchum]

Okay so while I love the discussions, most of the topics fall after my TS since I plan to stop as soon as the worker is finished. So the question at hand is:

a) Warrior -> worker (as soon as the warrior is done) -> End TS with both units
b) Warrior -> worker (as soon as the city grows) -> End TS with 1 turn left on warrior


I understand the arguments for both and based on the timeframe for the settler being done in the tests, I will concede that we would lose 1 turn on either the PH or the Silver (based on the fact that I don't see us having both done prior to the Settler) (8 *2 for farm + 5 for silver mine + 5 PH mine = 26 Turns + 2 movement (1 to PH, 1 to silver) = 28 turns) So if Dhoom shows the settler down on T55 and worker finished on T35 (choice B) then we have only 20 turns. That means that the 2 corn are done and we have 2 turns on silver (one movement + 5 turns to mine). This negates the PH from the calculation since the 1 turn is lost on the silver due to the city being settled already IMO. ( I get the calcs so yes one turn is lost on the PH but not contributing to settler)

The votes so far are:

a) Unclethrill, Havr, Irgy
b) Mitchum, Dhoom, BLubmuz (I think he changed his mind in post 498 )


If we all agree, then Tata is the tie breaker. Can you confirm your change of vote BLubmuz?

If Tata doesn't vote by this evening and BLubmuz confirms his change of vote, then I will go with choice B since with a tie our Fearless leader's vote will carry the extra weight to tilt the scale.

Everyone okay with this? I believe it is in the spirit of the rules set forth.

We haven't heard from Tata for some time. I think we should move forward assuming he's tied up with real life and he'll resurface when he's ready. I also think we've discussed the arguments on both sides and several test games have been played. Assuming no one has anything else to add to the argument, it appears that we are deadlocked in a 3-3 tie.

Acccording to our rules, our leader breaks any ties after a 24-hour period. If Havr, Unclethrill and Irgy agree with this, then I propose that BLubmuz breaks the tie and Unclethrill plays his turnset tonight.

Thoughts?

 

[BLubmuz]

Vote for finish warrior.
I'm still not sure which is the best decision. I was focused on grow to 4, which is a mistake.

The pros for warrior first is earlier knowledge of a possible city #3 site and full investigation on city #2 site. This will mainly satisfy our human curiosity, which can be put on hold for game purposes. But i'm curious.

The cons are those 2H+4C 1 turn earlier and maybe the settler out 1 turn earlier.

If anyone can guarantee that we have the first settler built 1 turn earlier, i vote to let the warrior queued. I already verified we won't lose hammers on it.

If not, let's finish the warrior.

Tata
I can't consider him a full team member, until now. 2 measly, lapidary posts are not enough. If i see nothing from him in the next days, i'll ask Alan to cancel him from our team. I would set a deadline and i think May 9th is fair enough.
In case he's busy in RL he did not informed us, so for what i can see, he's MIA.

The Captain vote
There's no need to confirm that vote. Once i vote and the deadline is matched, my additional vote is automatically casted.

 

[unclethrill]

Okay so it has been the requisite 24 hours and as Mitchum said, it is a tie and since Tata has not weighed in we will utilize the tie break rules. Blubmuz vote sways the team and we choose to go with changing to the worker as soon as we grow. In addition we will follow Mitchum and Dhoom and BLubmuz's idea to keep warrior 1 in the west to battle the horrible lions and tigers and bears, oh my!


PPP Not So -Final

T18 Work two corns till grow, Set Espionage to 1 to Zara,Hit space bar with warrior until lion appears
T20 Delhi grows to 3, Start, Start Worker, Work 2 H + 1 food.
T30 Get Agri and Start Masonry
T34 Borders should expand to include Silver.
T35 Finish Worker. Start Corn Farming to the North, Finish TS so that we can decide what to build next.


Warrior will fortify until lion attack Then will move to the forest E of the marble for fog busting duty (maybe a little KP duty too)

As soon as my kids go to bed, I will play.

Okay the new shelves I hung just fell and now that the mess is cleaned up, the kids are in bed. I'll still give it an hour or so in case there are any last minute ideas.

 

[Mitchum]

Okay the new shelves I hung just fell and now that the mess is cleaned up, the kids are in bed. I'll still give it an hour or so in case there are any last minute ideas.

Good luck!!

 

[unclethrill]

PPP not so Final

T18 Work two corns till grow, Set Espionage to 1 to Zara,Hit space bar with warrior until lion appears
T20 Delhi grows to 3, Start, Start Worker, Work 2 H + 1 food.
T30 Get Agri and Start Masonry
T34 Borders should expand to include Silver.
T35 Finish Worker. Start Corn Farming to the North, Finish TS so that we can decide what to build next.


Warrior will fortify until lion attack Then will move to the forest E of the marble for fog busting duty (maybe a little KP duty too)

As soon as my kids go to bed, I will play.

Okay the new shelves I hung just fell and now that the mess is cleaned up, the kids are in bed. I'll still give it an hour or so in case there are any last minute ideas.

Okay so in the cross post with BLubmuz due to a real life disaster (at least from my wife's perspective), he appears to have changed (kept original) his vote to warrior first. So since 24 hours have past and the votes are now 4 for finish warrior and 2 for change to worker, warrior finish wins.

T18 Work two corns till grow, Set Espionage to 1 to Zara,Hit space bar with warrior until lion appears
T20 Delhi grows to 3, Continue warrior,
T21 Start Worker, Work 2 H + 1 food.
T30 Get Agri and Start Masonry
T34 Borders should expand to include Silver.
T36 Finish Worker. Start Corn Farming to the North, Finish TS so that we can decide what to build next.


Warrior 2 will explore south then start to head to Fog busting duty to the west with a easterly route around the capital.


I will play in 1 hour. I believe that we are fully following all rules so if anyone thinks that I have in any way circumvented the rules please let me know in the next 1 hour.

 

[unclethrill]

I think we need to narrow in on what which victory condition we are targeting. All of this back and forth between diplo and cultural will start causing some sub-optimal decisions soon. We should be focused on our intended victory condition like a laser, no?

For example, if we’re going diplo, we need to start thinking about how we will get a Great Engineer soon. In my last diplo game, I got my GE late even though I was focused on it from the beginning. In addition, it came at ~75%, so it could have failed very easily. If going diplo, we should be thinking about our GE-generating city so that we can build an aqueduct, Hanging Gardens, forge and hire an engineer to start generating some GE gpp as soon as possible. This isn’t a big deal if we’re going cultural. Instead, we would be focusing on finding legendary city locations, a GP farm and a production city to build all of our missionaries.

I would like to take a straw poll to see where people stand right now.

POLL

A. Focus on diplo victory.
B. Focus on cultural victory.
C. Keep options open until the religion beeline is completed and/or we’ve scouted north and east to get a better lay of the land.​

I vote for option A: Focus on a diplo victory now with the following additions:

1. Re-write our high-level strategy now with this victory condition in mind
2. Put together a great person plan, including when we want them, where they will likely be generated, what flavor we want, and our intended use for each (e.g. build academy, bulb tech X, settle, etc.)
3. Put together our intended tech path after the religion beeline. We’ll be at about T106 with only 3 worker techs (Agriculture, Mining and BW). How can we close this gap so that our cities can begin to be more productive?
4. Others?

I think we can discuss this in parallel with unclethrill’s turn set. The earlier we start discussing and agreeing on this, the faster our future turn sets will go. If we don’t do this, we’ll be doing tons of testing and talking between each turn set, thus delaying our entire game.

I agree that we need to decide too.

I vote for Diplo.

I think that we have one of the best diplo players around on the team and we should always play to the teams strength. (Plus it looks strongly like there aren't 3 legendary sites unless we take over a couple capitals from the AIs)

 

[Mitchum]

Okay so in the cross post with BLubmuz due to a real life disaster (at least from my wife's perspective), he appears to have changed (kept original) his vote to warrior first.

I read his post differently. I thought he was still voting for leaving the warrior in the queue. He said: "This will mainly satisfy our human curiosity, which can be put on hold for game purposes." He also said: "If anyone can guarantee that we have the first settler built 1 turn earlier, i vote to let the warrior queued"

 

[unclethrill]

Tata
I can't consider him a full team member, until now. 2 measly, lapidary posts are not enough. If i see nothing from him in the next days, i'll ask Alan to cancel him from our team. I would set a deadline and i think May 9th is fair enough.
In case he's busy in RL he did not informed us, so for what i can see, he's MIA.

I agree. May 9th is a good date. Hopefully he will show up and we can get some good inputs.

 

[BLubmuz]

Okay so in the cross post with BLubmuz due to a real life disaster (at least from my wife's perspective), he appears to have changed (kept original) his vote to warrior first. So since 24 hours have past and the votes are now 4 for finish warrior and 2 for change to worker, warrior finish wins.

Don't be duped by the title.
Please read the entire post.
Making it short:
- if we gain only 1 worker turn, i vote to finish the warrior.
- if we gain also the settler 1 turn earlier, i vote to keep it on queue.

Sorry if this was unclear or if the title wasn't appropriate.

 

[Mitchum]

If anyone can guarantee that we have the first settler built 1 turn earlier, i vote to let the warrior queued. I already verified we won't lose hammers on it.

If not, let's finish the warrior.

OK. I guess I misread his post. In my first test game, I finished warrior 2 first and then started worker 1 and I settled Silver City on T55, which was the SAME turn as my test where I did not finish the warrior... Let me try to re-create this now to confirm. Give me 15 minutes. Don't play yet...