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SGOTM 11 - One Short Straw

The thought of running every possible build path down with a test save sounds like a huge pile of boredom and tedium to me. It wouldn't be fun, and after all that's why most of us play this game. Maybe the tedium is the "price" to pay for playing well and doing good, but the level of play to which the last few turnsets have gone is a bit too much for me... Plus the fear of clicking a wrong button and instantly invalidating weeks of play for the whole team... :crazyeye:
Not to beat a dead horse :deadhorse:, but I wanted to take this opportunity to mention that I'm envious of bbp for having the most fun turnset of the whole game. In our last SG, MW had an amazing run-up to building Oxford that was deliciously intricate and involved a Mission Impossible-like effort of timing all sorts of things. What bbp has on his plate is actually even more complicated, if we want to maximize the potential (not to put any pressure on you, bbp, like Erkon always did with his infamous "Remember, this is the most important turnset of the game..." :lol:). MW had a surplus of workers and all the delicious stuff Gyathaar provided on that map. We are severely short of workers and hammers. But, in hopes of shedding light on my MMMania, to me it's not at all about "running every possible build path down," although there is usually an element of that early in the game.

It's about figuring out how to get Oxford done asap, within the framework of our overall game strategy and without killing our economy in the process. About how to get the uni done in Bombay. Steal the worker from Oasis. Then in Rice. Then in Marble. But then maybe the Rice worker needs to go to Marble. Where does the Rice FP worker come from, Gold? But then we get to the hard stuff, Two Fish and Delhi. Okay, forge first in Two Fish, then uni, then NE (clever idea, bbp :goodjob:). Well, Delhi is easy, it's a 2pop. Maybe too easy. If we're going to 2pop the forge in Bombay first, that might push the uni back a couple turns. Hm...that means we can delay the Delhi 2pop a couple turns and have more overflow for Oxford. Wait, that means with 4 chops, Oxford can be finished in 1t, which means we research Literature sooner, which means NE sooner. But only if we can get those three chops in Two Fish done fast enough. So how do we get the four chops in Delhi, followed immediately by the three chops in Two Fish. Hm...the Marble chopper was going to farm the Bombay fp next, helped by the Bombay chopper. Do I need them in Delhi and Two Fish instead. Oh, and when will that worker be coming from Ivory. Oh look, if we can somehow get Construction from Zara, then the worker can move from Aksum to the forest hill east of Delhi in 1 turn...or is this all too fast? Nah, never too fast. Now what about that market in Two Fish, can we poprush it too... :cool:

To me, MM is all about a strategic puzzle. My first goal is always to establish what the team's strategy is for the upcoming turnset. Compare that with our overall strategy. In this SG, it's complex, because there's so many different paths we're travelling at once and it's very difficult to decide what the Critical Path (the longest necessary path) is. If we overlook any critical detail, it can extend our critical path unnecessarily. Like scouting the barbs fur. What if the barbs just happen to know Fasicsm already and are gleefully building paratroopers?! Anyone stop to wonder why Erkon cryptically warned against researching Industrialism and obsoleting Ivory? Probably nothing, but you never know...

Anyway, my point is that CIV is fundamentally a strategy game and MM, to me, is all about implementing the strategy. Not so much about anally retentively dotting is and crossing ts. Just wanted to explain that, in case it clarifies anything or perhaps motivates anyone... :)
 
we need military police, so there chariot in bombei.

Remember, only 5 cities have representation happiness and we need more then 5 to size 7+.

Need protection become -2 or -3 on that size (I do not remember).

So do build chariot, even of you bring one warrior back replacing it with missionary.
 
PRE-PLAY PLAN
Turn 157 (245 BC) - Turn 171 (35 BC)

SUMMARY
Finish Education on Turn 168 - Switch to OR/SLavery - Whip 6 universities on Turn 170 (to complete on Turn 171)

ACTIONS
IMMEDIATE
Western WB moves into Byzantine city to wait.
Eastern WB slowly heads to whales.
Taoist Missionary moves south to replace warrior.
Rice warrior moves to Marble.
Trade clam to Mehmed for 2 gpt.
What's the consensus on the resource deals with Toku? LC suggested going NSR to renegotiate those, but I don't think we can afford NSR right now.
Demand 110g from Zara.
T+7
Cancel gold deal when our gold roaded.
Math for cash to Isabella and Mehmed, as per LC's suggestion?

Could you guys remind me of anything I'm forgetting here? Too much to keep track of this TS.
:mischief:


CITIES
  • DELHI
    Lose corn from T+0 to T+8 (forge complete); start working corn and running Eng; start on University asa Edu done - 2pop whip; start on Oxford.
    Do we want hammers into Market or Confucian Monastery next? I'm for Market.
  • BOMBAY
    Borrows corn from T+0 to T+8; start on forge right away. Grows to pop 6 and 3pop whips a university.
    I'm not sure I can whip forge, then whip Uni on the proposed schedule. Maybe you can give me the requisite MM, LC?
    Edit: No, I can do 2pop forge - 2pop University on schedule.
  • TWO FISH
    Grows one more; starts on forge right away; 3pop whip forge; 3pop whip university; save overflow for NE.
  • OASIS
    Switch to library right away and grow; 2pop whip library with max overflow - 2pop whip university.
  • RICE
    Grow to pop 8; 2pop whip library for max overflow - regrow one; 2pop whip university.
    I'm planning to chop a forest here, as well - resulting in some 25 spare hammers. What do we wanna build here? We could get started on a trireme or spy... Or just put some hammers into further infrastructure.
  • MARBLE
    Finish LH; start library with one chop; grow to pop 7; 2pop whip the library - regrow one; 3pop whip university. (Or: get Confu autospread. :cool:)
  • IVORY
    1t Galley - 5t Buddhist Monastery (44h) - 2t Galley (27h) - Moai - 2pop whip Galley - overflow into Moai - 2pop whip Monastery - overflow into Moai
    Do we want LC's suggestion of overflow into missionary instead?
  • VIAGRA & PATA
    Line up basic infra whips...

WORKERS
  • Fast Worker 1 (Rice): Cancel action - chop Marble - chop Rice - start farm @ Bombay FP.
  • Fast Worker 2 (Sugar): finish mine - mine Vija 1N. If we happen to get Calendar, cancel action and improve sugar.
  • Fast Worker 3 (Oasis): finish mine Oasis 2W - road two tiles - chop Bombay.
  • Fast Worker 4 (Ivory): pass the turns 'till galley complete.
  • Fast Worker 5 (Delhi): finish cottage - pre-chop Delhi 2E - pre-chop Delhi SEE - chop Delhi 3E - chop Delhi 2E - chop Delhi SEE
  • Fast Worker 6 (Delhi): finish cottage - start chain irrigation in Bombay.
  • Fast Worker 7 (Pata): finish gold mine - road gold - farm Rice FP.

PS:
I could play this tonight or tmr morning (12-24hrs). Given how much has been happening lately, the TS might need to be cut short for consult anyway (exploration / new trade opportunities / etc.)
 
The plan looks good. I wouldn't worry about Delhi's build post Oxford as I think we need to stop once after Oxford is complete so that I can re-calculate GPP. I'm starting to warm up to mutineer's plan of 2-3 GM's to speed base research and just using the GS for PP, physics, and electricity (i.e., self-research astro and SM).

I'd start a spy in rice. It has low hammers so it won't be building much more this game.

Ivory, I'd dump overflow into a missionary. We need at least one spread to Delhi by the completion of Oxford. 2-fish and marble can wait about 10 turns before they need Buddhism.
 
I wouldn't worry about Delhi's build post Oxford as I think we need to stop once after Oxford is complete so that I can re-calculate GPP.
Delhi has turns of production to spare between forge and uni.
 
How many turns are we looking at? If it can complete either building in the interim, I'd go market over monastery since we're going to be in 0% research after education?

We can re-negotiate with Toku while we are researching towards education, but once we get education we'll be stuck in a religion.

I'm fine selling math. I'm still hoping for that calendar trade! This doesn't give us WE penalties right?
 
We can re-negotiate with Toku while we are researching towards education, but once we get education we'll be stuck in a religion.
We're already stuck - need Pacifism for the next GS.

How many turns are we looking at? If it can complete either building in the interim, I'd go market over monastery since we're going to be in 0% research after education?
3t for 54h, I think. Not enough for either. I'd invest in a market and complete post-Oxford.
 
Post-Oxford, we'll be running at 100% science but I don't think we'll have enough gold to make it till when we cash 2-fish's GM. So market sounds good.
 
Guys, this may seem sudden, but I am going abroad. My input from here on out will be limited or none. Sorry about that, can't be avoided. Things are just starting to get exciting too. I hope to chime in now and then, but can't promise anything. My view is that we just need to:

* beeline MM
* spam buddhism to all but Saladin
*capture the furs (plus add buddhism if the furs are in city center)

It's be great fun working with you all up to now. This is an excellent team. Keep up the good work!
 
About resource deal with Toky, we can not. WE have -2 with him for not go to war. so even in no state will will not get it.

In addition, the only resource Toky can trade as will be gems (we got everything else) and Issa will get gems soon.
Build Moa first, it should be finishing with help of overflow and thta will speed up missionary,
 
Packed and ready to go. :)

PPP looks good, bbp. Clever solution for max pre-builds in Ivory. You might even have too much overflow (since the monastery is capped at 90h), but that just goes to gold, so no probs.

Toku can trade, but we'd have to go NSR and trade him a tech to get the +4 trade relations again. But we can't do that for 5t anyway, because evidently we just switched to Conf this turn. But just do what you guys think is best. It doesn't look like Toku is likely to get clams any time soon, so keep that going and maybe we can still trade fo gems later.

Good luck!!!
 
Packed and ready to go. :)

PPP looks good, bbp. Clever solution for max pre-builds in Ivory. You might even have too much overflow (since the monastery is capped at 90h), but that just goes to gold, so no probs.

That is incorrect. Seens last patch excess of overflow does not convert to gold any longer. So, have too mach overflow become bad thin.
 
About WB, simple hide it in city does not work. I already try that in previous city, Barbarian Galley will just turn around and continue to block path.

What I was trying to do it to lead it to Justian clams.

So, that was an idea:

this turn move galley forward, barbarian will follow you. Next turn hide in city. Hopefully this will cause Barbarian galley to go after Justian Clams.

Spoiler :




I put barbarian Path wrong on picture, it will move one more tie forward, but it still illustrate idea.
 
That is incorrect. Seens last patch excess of overflow does not convert to gold any longer. So, have too mach overflow become bad thin.
Okay. Anyway, it's a bit too much overflow only if not into Moai, but rather on consecutive turns, then into missionary.

The Rice production could well go into a galley for the barb spy.

-----

We would also be wise to gradually build roads connecting Aksum and Rice for the buddhist missionaries.
 
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