SGOTM 11 - Plastic Ducks

[Duckweed]

^#1 -- is necessary to get #3 marble trade.

Ran a test to T175 (25AD), complete HE and HG, Finish Machinery and Phi (held on teching after Machinery and resumed after Univ done in Pat). I think it's a good stop rather than continuing on.

Pretty tedious to write down the worker move, so I'd suggest skip worker move detail in the plan, just the overall direction instead. In short, 5 Workers will chain irrigate from Vij->Bombay->Cal. Uncertain about which improvement you want on the hill tile in Hyd?

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Your build orders look sound to me, Duckweed.
The spy in Varan is a very good idea. I also like the use of a cottage city to build missionaries... I'm not used to doing that but I can see how that's a good use for a low hammer city.

Regarding the trades...
Why give Saladin Marble and Aesthetics since we won't invade him ?
Having Zara and Izzie in wonder mode is a nice thing, though. But we'd rather have them complete the wonders than Saladin, right ?
--> No problem with 2&4.
Not sure I get the intricates of 1&3. Is it to spoil relations between Saladin and Toku ? If that's efficient, well... why not ?

 

[Duckweed]

@BIC

Toyed around the diplomacy and found something interesting. Do we want to do this?

Toku -- Cur<->stop trading with Sal + 40g
Izzy -- cancel horse deal, gift Aes, Marble<->2g
Saladin -- Horse<->Marble
Zara -- Aes<->WM+20g

We can anticipate 1 or 2 free wonders from Izzy and Zara

I do not give Aes and Marble to Saladin, that's for Izzy since I hope she can build Part for us, although as kissin pointed out, she may also build SoZ. Considering the war will be short, therefore it does not matter too much.

The reason I want trade #1 is that Saladin has the marble trade with Toku, and we need it to gift Izzy and ourselves for ~25 turns until the completion of MoM. Another small reason is that I don't like AIs has chance to touch MoM, although it's quite small since no one has Calendar for now.

@bugg123
Need your ideas so that I can go for real test and plan.

 

[kossin]

Ah, that's why you want to cancel trades (hadn't checked the save).

Fair enough... the demerit should have plenty of time to wear off in ~100 turns.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Ah ! My bad, Duckweed. I misread the marble trades.

Sounds fair

 

[Udey1]

Good afternoon Team Plastic Ducks,

I am sure it has not escaped notice that I have fallen off the radar for the last month and a half. I have had some things to deal with personally. A death in my wife's family and a not-approved wedding in my own. These took me far out of town to the roots I try to escape. Now I return back to campus and am dealing with yet another class intended to kill off weak CS students at U of I.

I simply can't keep up with the game right now, I haven't even been to the boards for the trademark snarky comment or (one of kossin's) deity entries for months.

I am sorry to have let the team down. Clearly though you guys can handle yourselves even being a body short.

I wish you guys the best of luck here. I am sorry I wasn't more help.

Udey
udey1

 

[kossin]

Farewell.

 

[kossin]

Alrighty, now that we're officially down to 4 players a few changes should be needed.

First, the roster looks like:
1-Duckweed
2-Bugg123
3-kossin
4-BornInCantaloup

Second, I propose we consider 3 votes as a majority... 2 isn't enough unless 24 hours has passed.

Third, if you have to be away for some time, it's pretty important to warn the team now. Should 2 players be away for say a week, then we can consider putting the game on hold for that time.

Fourth, an un-notified absence of several days (I'm thinking 3+) will be an automatic skip should your next turn come up during absence. We need to keep this moving.

Fifth, anything else you can come up with.

~~~

Let's get ready to hit Zara and then Izzy (hopefully).

 

[Duckweed]

Detail plan:

Tech: Machinery->Phi
Workers -- 5 Workers will chop a forest for Var and chain irrigate farm from Vij->Bombay->Cal (7 more farms available). 1 worker in Hyde improve mine or windmill on hill tile. (imo mine is more flexible)

T163
Agra(Whip HM), Lah(Galley will send FWs back and a HM to Var and a CM to Hyd), Madras(Cot->Deer), Del(takes cot and Corn back and on them, Univ, GS bulb), Bombay(takes FP), Vij(take FP from Var), Banglore(whip), Western WB to clam, Eastern WB to Whale, Toku ( Cur<->stop trading with Sal + 40g) Izzy (cancel horse deal, gift Aes, Marble<->2g), Saladin (Horse<->Marble), Zara (Aes<->WM+20g), R 0% until the completion of Univ in Delhi. EP focus on Meh or Jus since we can switch one of them to Hindu if the other becomes the UN opponent. (I think Meh is better). We have enough EP to revolt Zara's capital.

T164
Agra(CH), Lah(whip Gra), Pat(Eng to lake tile, Lib), Bombay(5th citizen on 1F2H), Vij(whip Bar), Banglore(LH)

T165
Lah(LH), Vij(FP->3F1C), Var(takes back FP, build wealth since there's a forest chop done),

T166
Lah(whip LH), Madras(takes cot),

T167
Saladin(beg cash), Convert Confu, Lah(CH), Pat(whip Lib), Del(whip Univ), Bombay(whip Forge), Vij(takes back FP from Bombay), Var(spread HM and produce HM), Banglore(CFB, citizen on clam),

T168
Pat(Univ), Bombay(Bar), Var(whip Lib), Hyde(spread CM, whip Gra), Cal(whip Forge), R 100%

T169
Madras(whip LH), Del(takes cot from Madras), Hyde(LH), Cal(Trieme)

T170
Pat(whip Univ), Madras(Forge), Var(Univ, HM to Delhi), Vij (6th citizen to 1F3H)

T171
Pat(Bar), Bombay(Maceman), Banglore(takes 3F tile from Vij), Hyde(whip LH),

T172
Hyde(Lib)

T173
Del(HM spread)

T174
Pat(Maceman), Banglore(whip LH), R (partial slider to finish Phi)

T175
Phi done, HE, HG online, you will be very happy with the score.

 

[kossin]

T163
I assume you mean that Vijay takes horses from Bombay.
IMO Mehmed has more room to grow into our UN opponent. We can work with Toku against Justinian (get shared war bonus) to make him smaller if need be. The added bonus of warring on Justinian is that the fur is close by his land. The EPs won't matter much imo.

Don't have the time to check via the test game but from reading it looks fine.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Too bad about Udey. In the end he won't get to play with us, or we with him...

Alrighty, now that we're officially down to 4 players a few changes should be needed.

First, the roster looks like:
1-Duckweed
2-Bugg123
3-kossin
4-BornInCantaloup

Second, I propose we consider 3 votes as a majority... 2 isn't enough unless 24 hours has passed.

Third, if you have to be away for some time, it's pretty important to warn the team now. Should 2 players be away for say a week, then we can consider putting the game on hold for that time.

Fourth, an un-notified absence of several days (I'm thinking 3+) will be an automatic skip should your next turn come up during absence. We need to keep this moving.

Fifth, anything else you can come up with.

5th : we can play last man standing (mini pun...).


Ok for the absence notifications and the rest.

I'll look into your plan tomorrow, Duckweed (late and tired right now). I'm confident it's sound, though.

 

[Duckweed]

T163
I assume you mean that Vijay takes horses from Bombay.
IMO Mehmed has more room to grow into our UN opponent. We can work with Toku against Justinian (get shared war bonus) to make him smaller if need be. The added bonus of warring on Justinian is that the fur is close by his land. The EPs won't matter much imo.

Don't have the time to check via the test game but from reading it looks fine.

I let Vij takes a FP from Var, so that Bombay 4 citizens can work on all improved tiles. It will make sense for Vij takes back Horse after Bombay has more improved tiles by the time FWs can irrigate around.

Regarding the diplomacy, there's a chance that we can't get Toku's vote. Either there are too many demands or he has good progress on the war. In that case, by switch Meh to Hindu, we can get his vote for sure. Meh's rest land is pretty crappy and that won't contribute too much to his population.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

I've looked into your plan, Duckweed, and nothing jumps into my mind.
--> You got my vote to play it as it is.


@Hyderabad, I also think a mine is better.
@EP : no preference on my part. I tend to think we don't generate much EP anyways.

 

[kossin]

Ok

I don't have time to check before tonight (8-9 hours) so if you feel like playing before it's fine with me.

 

[Duckweed]

^Will play tomorrow night, take your time.

 

[Bugg123]

@duckweed:

As stated in post 1109 i was away for the weekend, so couldn't post any ideas. Just got back.

Have read through discussion so far, and it seems like a good plan (although I haven't tested the details). So I'm ok.

@dingding:

Too bad you can't continue. A shame it had to end like this. You really bring good arguments to the discussion.

@Udey1:
I'm sorry to hear you're definately leaving as well. Real life intervention is hard.

@all:
I'm with kossin on trying to get this thing done as soon as possible. I know right now I'll be unavailable from july 2 through the week after. I also know life will be crazy from mid-august or so, so the sooner the better.

Good luck duckweed!

 

[kossin]

Plan looks fine.
Feel free to play whenever you wish to.

 

[Duckweed]

Pretty much played as plan, except that I held Trireme in Cal so that we can do 2 pop whip. In the 1st turn, got a surprised trade of 50g after I cancel the horse deal with Izzy. Also caught Justinain's last turn at Math and got 30g in T173, did not bother to take the screenshots.

Log

Spoiler :

Turn 163, 155 BC: You have discovered Education!
Turn 163, 155 BC: Gandhi has completed The Colossus!
Turn 163, 155 BC: Isabella adopts Theocracy!

Turn 165, 125 BC: Justinian I adopts Theocracy!

Turn 166, 110 BC: Saladin adopts Theocracy!

Turn 167, 95 BC: Gandhi converts to Confucianism!
Turn 167, 95 BC: Hinduism has spread in Varanasi.
Turn 167, 95 BC: You have constructed a University in Delhi. Work has now begun on The Hanging Gardens.
Turn 167, 95 BC: Tokugawa adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 167, 95 BC: Mencius (Great Prophet) has been born in Constantinople (Justinian I)!
Turn 167, 95 BC: Zara Yaqob adopts Hereditary Rule!
Turn 167, 95 BC: Zara Yaqob adopts Theocracy!

Turn 168, 80 BC: Confucianism has spread in Hyderabad.
Turn 168, 80 BC: You have constructed a Library in Varanasi. Work has now begun on Hindu Missionary.

Turn 169, 65 BC: Justinian I has completed The Temple of Solomon!

Turn 170, 50 BC: You have discovered Machinery!

Turn 171, 35 BC: Robert E. Lee (Great General) has been born in Thessalonica (Justinian I)!

Turn 172, 20 BC: St. Augustine (Great Prophet) has been born in Osaka (Tokugawa)!
Turn 172, 20 BC: Mehmed II adopts Hereditary Rule!

Turn 173, 5 BC: Delhi has grown to size 9.
Turn 173, 5 BC: Pataliputra has grown to size 5.
Turn 173, 5 BC: Justinian I has 120 gold available for trade.
Turn 173, 5 BC: Hinduism has spread in Delhi.
Turn 173, 5 BC: Varanasi will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 173, 5 BC: Madras will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 173, 5 BC: Bangalore will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 173, 5 BC: Hyderabad will grow to size 3 on the next turn.

Turn 174, 10 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Delhi!
Turn 174, 10 AD: Varanasi has grown to size 6.
Turn 174, 10 AD: Varanasi can hurry University for 3? with 22? overflow and +1? for 36 turns.
Turn 174, 10 AD: Madras has grown to size 4.
Turn 174, 10 AD: Bangalore has grown to size 4.
Turn 174, 10 AD: Bangalore can hurry Lighthouse for 2? with 28? overflow and +1? for 19 turns.
Turn 174, 10 AD: Hyderabad has grown to size 3.
Turn 174, 10 AD: Zara Yaqob has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 174, 10 AD: The borders of Pataliputra are about to expand.
Turn 174, 10 AD: Bombay will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 174, 10 AD: Vijayanagara will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 174, 10 AD: Pataliputra will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 174, 10 AD: Calcutta will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 174, 10 AD: Taoism has been founded in Lahore!
Turn 174, 10 AD: You have discovered Philosophy!
Turn 174, 10 AD: Gandhi has completed The Hanging Gardens!
Turn 174, 10 AD: The borders of Pataliputra have expanded!
Turn 174, 10 AD: Isabella adopts Hereditary Rule!

Turn 175, 25 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Delhi!
Turn 175, 25 AD: Delhi has grown to size 10.
Turn 175, 25 AD: Bombay has grown to size 6.
Turn 175, 25 AD: Vijayanagara has grown to size 8.
Turn 175, 25 AD: Pataliputra has grown to size 7.
Turn 175, 25 AD: Pataliputra can hurry Maceman for 2? with 16? overflow and +1? for 80 turns.
Turn 175, 25 AD: Varanasi has grown to size 7.
Turn 175, 25 AD: Agra has grown to size 6.
Turn 175, 25 AD: Calcutta has grown to size 5.
Turn 175, 25 AD: Lahore has grown to size 3.
Turn 175, 25 AD: Madras has grown to size 5.
Turn 175, 25 AD: Hyderabad has grown to size 4.
Turn 175, 25 AD: Mehmed II will trade Feudalism
Turn 175, 25 AD: Zara Yaqob will trade Feudalism

Screen shots.

Spoiler :

1 neutral demand, 2 bad demands, but expected.






Tech -- Theology and Feudalism are available, We definitely want to run Theology for 5 turns to get some elite units.


Empire view -- for the score. Zara finally settled the river site.

 

[Bugg123]

@duckweed:

Good job .

And got it. Will look at it some time during the day (hopefully) and get started on some ideas. Though I suppose it's mostly continue on Lib/Uni on one side, military on another, and get started on MoM.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Situation is sweet. Well done, Duckweed !
(and the score... yeah... you announced it... Farming is good... teching is good... HG is tremendous... That's +122 on the last turn... It doesn't happen everyday.
It's a nice thing we let Agra and Lahore grow. I was fearing after my set that we would leave them on work mines and don't grow mode)

The farm road was much needed.
Do we want an incense plantation, now that our workers are around Calcutta ? Or would it take too long ?

- We should send 1 worker to Delhi, since it has only 11 improved tiles.
- If we want to chop forests east of Delhi, it should also be now (Zara's new city is closer).
- We haven't decided yet what kind of improvements we want in Madras. If we grow it further without running specs, then we will need improvements there. Seeing how the game looks right now, I'd say farms would be ok. Or is the Colossus enhanced coast good enough ?

Spare worker points --> the road ? We will need one to get maces moving...