SGOTM 12 - Ivan

[I. Larkin]

1) For now military isn't that important, at least until AI get MM.
2) So grow and get lux hooked up should be priority imo.
3) Maybe temple before SoZ, but shouldn't wait to long for that.
4)As we can keep 10fpt for some time it might not be that surefull to get workers and join them back.
5) It will waste 10 shields per worker and gain only 2 turns.
6) AT might have a point in maybe swords better then horses. WW won't be a problem as wars will not last long.

7) If Niftan doesn't play today, I will tomorrow.

Chariot for MP, and it has best upgrage path.
2) We may only hook lux with Colonies. Even with Temple it is too long to wait expansion
3) Better to wait when Pyramid cascade will be resolved. Or when we get Math. (BTW, Math next after IW)
4) I think 2 for lux Colonies, 1 to join when 10 fpt will be impossible, 2-3 to work tiles.
5) But Integral (total) effect of 2 turns earlier is huge... 25-36 schield, 70 gold...
6) When we finish SoZ we will see what next to do...
7) I agree... Please, when somebody start playing send msg :"Playing now!"

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I completely disagree about researching math - we should go writing until we can trade for it, then go either philo or literature. The AI will research math for us - it's one of teh first things france gets.

This is a fast research game - for us, research should be things that the AI wont' get - literature and currency - and not things they will - math.

 

[Nitfan]

I just started playing. Sorry for the delay, I'll post the results in a couple hours.

 

[Nitfan]

Preturn Summary – We are currently at tech parity or ahead of all the civs we know. Spain, Rome, and Aztecs lack Masonry. The goal is to still be at parity after 20 turns if not ahead. IW is due in 8 at -1gpt.

We are currently building a chariot which I change to a spear so that it can be upgraded. Did we discuss how long we are going to wait to put a rax in?

Anyway, hit enter

IBT – Maya tell us to leave so we say sorry

2900BC – spearmen >curragh, Constantinople grows to size 5, MM tiles for 2 turn growth, workers to 2nd ivory east of Constantinople

IBT – New techs mysticism and HBR

2850BC – worker>irrigate, worker>irrigate, worker>road. Japan and Aztecs are both up mysticism and HBR so they are obviously trading together. Hopefully can get both with IW in 5 turns. I decide to change the build to a temple instead of curragh for a couple reasons.

1) I don’t see anywhere else another curragh will explore before the ones we already have
2) Our borders expand in 38 turns, I’d rather not have to waste workers on colonies if we don’t have to, we’re going to need the happinees when we grow next turn.

IBT – Aztecs are building the Oracle

2800BC – Constantinople is going to riot, so lux to 10% but we’ll lose a turn on IW doing that, wonderful. MM tiles. Aztecs and Japan still the only two with HBR and Mysticism

IBT – Japan and Korea say get lost, Japan is building the Oracle.

2750BC – We get our turn back on IW now that the Ivory tile is done. Move workers Northeast to next Ivory tile. We meet the Inca, they have nothing of use to us. Japan and Aztec still have a monopoly on HBR and mysticism. IW in 3, Constantinople growth in 1, temple in 5

IBT – Korea beats us to IW by two turns

2700BC – MM tiles back for 4 turn growth. Science down to 60% at 3 +gpt. I’m not going to buy IW for 50gold because Korea is a long way away from Aztecs and Japan so I’m going to take the chance that they don’t trade. Japan has 0 gold and Aztecs 33 so we wouldn’t make our money plus get both techs.

IBT – nothing

2650BC – Maya now have IW as well. Korea will sell for 11g so I buy it since Aztecs have 35g hoping to swing a profit on the trade.

Wow I wasn’t expecting this great of a deal. Monty pays Mysticism, HBR, and 35g for IW. To top that off we also have iron right on top that little hill 2 west of Constantinople. Mathematics in 23 turns at -1 gpt. We have way too much money in the bank we need to get rid of some of it before the AI says they want it.

IBT – Spain says get lost

2630BC – workers done on ivory tile MM down to 18 turns. We meet the Ottomans.

IBT – nothing

2600BC – Constantinople temple>worker, the Aztecs sold IW to Japan.

IBT – Aztecs and Ottomans say get lost, we say sorry

2550BC – Constantinople worker>curragh. Start hooking up our iron with the new worker.

IBT – nothing

2510BC – worker>irrigate, worker> irrigate, worker to iron. I can sell HBR off to Korea and Rome and make a total of 37g. I don’t want to trade with Korea because they usually research writing asap so I want to be able to trade for it.

IBT – nothing

2470BC – Constantinople curragh> curragh. After this curragh we will be at the unit limit.

IBT – Paris completes the Pyramids

2430BC – I decide to send our curragh on a suicide mission to get to different color borders south of the Aztecs, keep your fingers crossed. 2 workers to jungle to clear. Contact with Persia from our curragh across sea. They have writing, but won’t trade it. I sell HBR to India for 30g, Masonry to Spain for 12g, Mysticism to Korea for 30g. Persia still won’t trade.

IBT – Mecca completes the Oracle

2390BC – Curragh>barracks, planning to use granary as prebuild for SoZ, Constantinople grows to size 8. Contact with Sumeria, sell them IW for 18g. India has MM. Won’t trade.

IBT – nothing

2350BC – workers road>mine, India won’t trade.

IBT – nothing

2310BC – Contact with England, they lack HBR, Myst, and IW. Contact with Egypt, sell them Alphabet for 28g.

IBT – nothing

2270BC – not much going on

IBT – Egypt says get lost

2230BC – Barracks>sword, trade with Persia HBR/Myst + 8g for Writing. Trade with India Mathematics for 138g. Japan has MM and Ivory so this is going to be interesting but I start the SoZ anyway. Lux up to 20% to prevent riot. Would've been nice to be able to trade on the prior turn so I could've switched over to a granary and had a 4 turn prebuild but I guess those are the breaks.

Constantinople is at size 9, in order to keep 4 turn growth we need to keep a laborer on the fresh water. SoZ that way takes 16 turns. If we change over to forest ivory, and take off the plains ivory to iron we still have 5 turn growth and SoZ in 13. Literature goes from 27 down to 29 that way. Japan just got MM and has ivory hooked up, it is a size 7 city. At this point I’m not even sure if it is worth going after but I start it anyway. Start philosophy at 80% -2gpt, in 15 turns. We have 56g.

IBT – Big surprise the Japanese are building SoZ. Germany says get lost.

2190BC – nothing

IBT – nothing

2150BC – nothing

2110BC – Worker mine>road incense for border expansion in 4 turns, worker mine>road forest ivory. SoZ in 9, growth in 2 and we are running at +8fpt for 5 turn growth. MM tiles we can switch back to plain ivory for an extra gold and still get SoZ in 9. I debated selling off some techs to pay for an embassy in Japan to see if we want to switch off of SoZ. We’ll have to discuss that and make a decision. We currently have tech parity with every known civ.

 

[glenmetz]

An Embassy in Japan is a fantastic idea. If you haven't hit enter to change turns, try for it. It would be good to know. I imagine with how poorly the AI MMs tiles, we'll probably beat them to it by a good 5 turns or more.

 

[I. Larkin]

Are we going to build SoZ? What Barracks now for?
May be to sell it before Soz?
Why we did not try Phylosophy?

2 workers to jungle to clear.

I am affraid it is not a good idea... Did we finish all Ivoryes?

Constantinople curragh> curragh. After this curragh we will be at the unit limit.

We are. We could use workers for Colonies...
I asked several time, did we agree for build order. It was nothing about Barracks, but we obviously need more workers.
It is no reason to afraid demands. Vise a versa, better to get it and do not cave for war happinies.

 

[I. Larkin]

An Embassy in Japan is a fantastic idea. If you haven't hit enter to change turns, try for it. It would be good to know. I imagine with how poorly the AI MMs tiles, we'll probably beat them to it by a good 5 turns or more.

Yes, it is. Please take screenshort to find out, if it is possible to beat us with this rase.

 

[Nitfan]

Larkin we are researching philosophy not literature. I was torn between which one to research and my post was confusing. Several civs beat us to writing which was why I was going to go directly to lit. I built a barracks because I was going to start building swords to invade japan. They have no iron or horses just a ton of archers and spears running around.

We should have Map Making in the next 20-30 turns, we need to trigger our GA asap and get off of this island. We'll be able to make 1 turn swords during it and we can start shuttling them onto the marsh outside of Japan's border expansion.

As far as that not being in the build order we're only going to need one worker for a colony because our borders are expanding in 3 turns. That leaves 3 workers and we only have to road 2 forest ivories and work one jungle. We are at size 9 with growth in 2 turns those workers are just going to end up getting disbanded. Also we have enough curraghs it's just going to take time until they explore and meet everyone. Any new curraghs are just going to be backtracking already explored land.

As far as posting a screenshot of their embassy from the save I'm not sure if that's a good idea. Since I already submitted the save won't that dq us unless the next player does the exact same thing? Maybe it is better for the next player up to do it and post it.

 

[nerovats]

Will play now, unles the save askes for questions.

 

[nerovats]

Pre-turn
things look ok
get embassy with Japan for 45 gold, no worries here, just 3 spear as well. Kyoto will make a fine addition to our empire.
Hit enter
2070BC
spot dark blue border
2030BC
Need gold so sell HBR to egypt for 19 gold and 1 gpt (they have no horses)
Constantinopel grows to 10 SoZ in 6 philo in 9
1990BC
Contact the Dutch. They are down Myth, math and HBR
IBT
Rome demands writing, we say no thank you
Maya want our troops gone, say ok (refex)
Dutch want our troops gone, say ok, only other option is declare ourselves
1950BC
Incense connected, can increase science to 90%, philo in 6
workers helps road forrest as colonizing wine won't help science improve
Contact the Babylon. They are down Myth, math and HBR
Check city sizes Paris is 12, other cities are 8 or less, Accidently hit enter, was gona trade with Babylon
IBT
Babylon wants us out, say ok again, now sell them HBR for 35 gold
1910BC
first jungle is cleared start road and mine
Japan and India have tech parity the rest is behind
1870BC
Ivory forrest roaded move to second, will connect wine in 3
1830BC
More civs are getting even sell writing to civs with cash, 20 from Portugal, 15 from Sumeria
Constantinople grows, SoZ won't even waste a single shield
1790BC
We have SoZ, start on sword, philo in 2
Ottomans get Poly, they won't trade it for all our techs (4)
Contact the Dutch. They are down Myth, math and HBR
lower science
IBT
India wants 23 gold, no way, they declare
Ottomans start on ToA
1750BC
connect wine
Contact Iro's they lack math
lux to 0% science to 60%

Stop here to decide what to de with free tech, lit, we can almost certainly get Glib and need a libary. But we need dromons too, building GLib will take 20 turns so then well be exposed to attacks. Probably prefer to get contruction or so as expensive tech for trade options, then research lit our selves and trade for MM. Will pass on to next player.
Constantinopel is now size 11 growth in 3.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

IF we get free tech, it should be either construction or currency - maybe currency will be better - AI will research construction before currency, so maybe we can get them to research it for us - plus we can build a market right off, which we will need for unit support.

No reason to build GLib in this game, I dont' think - we will be right with the tech leaders - ahead of them once we start taking cities. Will take a long time.

Do we know all civs?

I assume our first target for expansion is Japan or Aztecs (those are the two right near us, right?) Which do we want to take on first? Do either have iron?

We need to figure out:

A) how much to ****** research for units
B) Which curraghs we bring back and which we allow to sink.
C) When do we go to war

 

[I. Larkin]

Best free tech is currency. (Wrote withot reading AT post)
War will generate GA, are we ready?
War with India or what?
Well, we are not ready for war.
Better to have Library for effective GA, and of cource we need MM.
However, I recomend Currency and build Market.
For war we need MA, I am afraid, that we trade "too much active". I hope we will have some tech to trdae for MA.
we do not need TGL as we are Sci leaders.
did you contact France? After colosus/Pyramid they are at GA and, probably research
all AA.

 

[I. Larkin]

A) how much to ****** research for units
B) Which curraghs we bring back and which we allow to sink.
C) When do we go to war

A) I hope tech trade will give some cash for units.
B) we met less then half civs, and AIRC may continue without suicide mission.
but better not to return at all.
C) well, when we will have 4-5 AC+2-3 Swords +3-4 ships.

Did nerovats finished?
Anyhow, let discuss this turning point what to do with free tech and what to do without it...?

 

[AutomatedTeller]

yeah - if we have met 1/2 civs, we need to keep exploring.

no war until GA, and I would prefer to have lib/market and fully developed mil by then. Can we get to 27 SPT before GA? if so, we can wait until feud is in and kick out MDI to go along with our AC...

 

[Nitfan]

I see no reason why we wouldn't go after Japan first. They have no horses or iron and all we have to do is park 1 dromon in the canal for transport purposes. Aztecs have horses from what I could see.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

well, it's an interesting question: do we go after japan, with help from monty, who will be in a GA soon after it starts? or do we go after monty, with help from Japan, to help deal with his GA - then, after japan is gassed, take out japan.

it probably depends on who declares war on us first

 

[glenmetz]

Can't we trigger our GA with Dromons??? If so, once we get in a war, we'll have our GA (if we can sink someone elses ship with one). It might not be a bad idea to use one to romp on some random civ halfway across the map just to trigger our GA, then go to war.

I think if Japan is close and have no horsies or iron, they should be our target. If they only have 2 cities, a landing force of 12 units supported by 6 Dromons should probably do the job. I say we skip on Lib and Market for now and get immediately to work on the only thing that will make us stronger, TAKING OVER TERRITORY. Swords, Swords, Swords.

 

[Nitfan]

Glenmetz had the right idea. Swords, swords, and more swords. We don't have anything else we can build right now actually, lol. We are going to be severely cramped by units costs real soon which either means disbanding curraghs or workers. We can get rid of the spear and warriors in Constantinople too once we start building swords. Someone should put together a mock invasion plan for Japan. It's going to be about how quickly we can take out two cities not 60 archers/spears. We may be able to get away with not killing 2/3 of their units if we do it right. I don't see any reason to bring monty into this.

I think the best thing to do is drop a lone sword out in the marsh in no mans land and declare, have about 3 dromons move into the canal and drop units on the hill by Osaka. We'll need to wait till they look like they have enough of their units out of the way chasing our decoy to bring in the stack.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

ooh - I like it! tactics!!

Anyone read Theodora's excellent adventure? The Byzantine Bikini babe comes back for more!!

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I do think we should build a library before we go to war, and the market will help us deal with the unit support cost, which is insane under feudalism.

This variant is about fast research - I believe we can get faster research from a lib in our ivory filled city than we can from a second, poorly developed city that may not be size 12.