SGOTM 12 - Ivan
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
I. Larkin
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Yes, but try to do it with minimal loses, with MA with Korea. It will be OK if we take just Lisbon, and Korea will take another. Build-up (University in Capital) and preparation to final assult of Aztecs are more important. The aim of Portugal war is to have 8 Cities for next Army and FP and Leader fishing. Bring Archer(s) in Teno and build Archers after Library there.
Pre-turn
Use civ-assist to see flip risks, Teno has 0.2%, Bombay 0.3%, the rest is 0%.
FP needs 10 cities on standard map, so we need 4 more.
IBT
Rome lands 2 legionaires
590BC
Get embassy with Korea, they are strong compared to us.
Bombay lib->rax (for now)
Make peace with Rome we get 1 gold
move 1 archer to Teno other will take Portugal
Have to get scientist and entertainer to keep happy
570BC
Constatinopel gets both AC and MI, send them to Portugal
550BC
declare on Portugal
send stack on forrest
get Korea in for lit and currency, that should help them grow
IBT
Portugal does not attack
530BC
kill 2 spears, 2 archers, 1 horse, 1 galley, lose 1 archer, gain 2 elites
IBT
kill archer on defence
510BC
kill spear and archer, we claim their horse as well
IBT
Again defend against spear, Portugal is falling for empty Bombay
490BC
Teno lib->archer
Bombardments miss, decide to let units heal
IBT
France declares on America
470BC
moving
IBT
lose archer, Romans and Maya appear to be at war
450BC
take Lisbon with 3 AC, no losses
kill lose spear and archer
IBT
Rome lands 2 legionaire next to Teo
430BC
kill spear
prepare to send wounded units towards Teo
IBT
Romans did not attack
410BC
Move stack towards Oporto, Korea has large stack closing in
390BC
Korea has 10 swords ready so decide to give it a go
Capture Oporto as it just had 2 spears, Portugese are history.
Prepare to send units home, leave AC fo protection
Forgot to mm Constantinople couple turns before education, will get it in 4 now.
We got lot of units so should be able to take Aztecs easy. Aztecs are even kind enough to have units in our territory.
For FP we now just need Teo and Thebes
Haven't traded much, we probably can get some gpt if we want, we also can get more embassies.
Got former India on barracks for now but maybe better courts.
Edit:
See now I forgot to mention we got Education and started on Astronomy at max ofcource, 17 turns if I remember correctly. Butthat we decrease when we take teo in 4-5 turns.
Use civ-assist to see flip risks, Teno has 0.2%, Bombay 0.3%, the rest is 0%.
FP needs 10 cities on standard map, so we need 4 more.
IBT
Rome lands 2 legionaires
590BC
Get embassy with Korea, they are strong compared to us.
Bombay lib->rax (for now)
Make peace with Rome we get 1 gold
move 1 archer to Teno other will take Portugal
Have to get scientist and entertainer to keep happy
570BC
Constatinopel gets both AC and MI, send them to Portugal
550BC
declare on Portugal
send stack on forrest
get Korea in for lit and currency, that should help them grow
IBT
Portugal does not attack
530BC
kill 2 spears, 2 archers, 1 horse, 1 galley, lose 1 archer, gain 2 elites
IBT
kill archer on defence
510BC
kill spear and archer, we claim their horse as well
IBT
Again defend against spear, Portugal is falling for empty Bombay
490BC
Teno lib->archer
Bombardments miss, decide to let units heal
IBT
France declares on America
470BC
moving
IBT
lose archer, Romans and Maya appear to be at war
450BC
take Lisbon with 3 AC, no losses
kill lose spear and archer
IBT
Rome lands 2 legionaire next to Teo
430BC
kill spear
prepare to send wounded units towards Teo
IBT
Romans did not attack
410BC
Move stack towards Oporto, Korea has large stack closing in
390BC
Korea has 10 swords ready so decide to give it a go
Capture Oporto as it just had 2 spears, Portugese are history.
Prepare to send units home, leave AC fo protection
Forgot to mm Constantinople couple turns before education, will get it in 4 now.
We got lot of units so should be able to take Aztecs easy. Aztecs are even kind enough to have units in our territory.
For FP we now just need Teo and Thebes
Haven't traded much, we probably can get some gpt if we want, we also can get more embassies.
Got former India on barracks for now but maybe better courts.
Edit:
See now I forgot to mention we got Education and started on Astronomy at max ofcource, 17 turns if I remember correctly. Butthat we decrease when we take teo in 4-5 turns.
I. Larkin
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Make a quick look. Nice turn-set, nerovats. Are you going to starve Oporto?
Have a little mercy… It is a pity, that you miss university prbuild in Constantinople. When it will ready we have to start Copernicus pre-build. You miss trade with France. Now they pay nothing for Monotheism. Hopefully somebody will discover Invention. We may trade Mono for Republic, but may be better wait until Invention trade? Just ask, why you send troops via Romans water? Obviously, we have to attack from Teno, as Legioner block. But it is OK. Roman trade with Aztecs. Most probably Iron. Nothing else they have. But I do not think it will be a problem.
Barracks is not we want in India, we have in Lisbon for upgrade if any. Delhi may build Dormons and University (Bring troops for MP), and Bombay worker and Courthouse.
After Aztecs gone Teno also may start University. Fishing for Leaders, we need FP soon.
I. Larkin
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Nitfan up.
Few things to do:
At preturn:
Trade:Aztecs Currency for g and gpt. May be they will build Market for us.
Russia Mono for Rep and g and gpt.
Scandinavia Feudalism for g and gpt
Otto Ivory for g and gpt.
Gpt balance still negative, but OK.
Renew dice deal with Sumer when expire.
Looking forward to trade Invention
Build up: Const: After Uni start Copernicus pre-build. Micromanage 25 spt.
Teno: 1-2 Archers, then Uni with forest cup.
Delhi: Change to University; send workers to road and mine spices. Put 3 units for MP.
Bombay: workers and Courthouse.
Kyoto University -> Pickman.
War: At 7 turns Aztecs peace will expire (250 BC). I hope 2-3 turns need to be done Aztecs. AC may kill spear and unload MIs and Archers (LBs) at attacking point next to Teo. Pull Army from Kyoto to strike from Jungle. Prepare in advance, use Bombard. We have strong Army, may leave in India some troops to protect and MP. Better to use elite units to fish for Leader. (Next target Egypt).
OK, for 10 turns. Anything I forgot?
Few things to do:
At preturn:
Trade:Aztecs Currency for g and gpt. May be they will build Market for us.
Russia Mono for Rep and g and gpt.
Scandinavia Feudalism for g and gpt
Otto Ivory for g and gpt.
Gpt balance still negative, but OK.
Renew dice deal with Sumer when expire.
Looking forward to trade Invention
Build up: Const: After Uni start Copernicus pre-build. Micromanage 25 spt.
Teno: 1-2 Archers, then Uni with forest cup.
Delhi: Change to University; send workers to road and mine spices. Put 3 units for MP.
Bombay: workers and Courthouse.
Kyoto University -> Pickman.
War: At 7 turns Aztecs peace will expire (250 BC). I hope 2-3 turns need to be done Aztecs. AC may kill spear and unload MIs and Archers (LBs) at attacking point next to Teo. Pull Army from Kyoto to strike from Jungle. Prepare in advance, use Bombard. We have strong Army, may leave in India some troops to protect and MP. Better to use elite units to fish for Leader. (Next target Egypt).
OK, for 10 turns. Anything I forgot?
I. Larkin
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Recently we had a discussion with nerovats about research path after Astronomy. We both have feeling that Invention-> Gunpoweder, Chemistry, Physics, ToG is the best route, But I want to verify what will happend if make a detour to Sheakspere.
The Idea is to have 20+ City much earlier, than in IA, for our Constantinople it may be good. First we need some model for research rate (bpt) . Until now it fit well with parabola (thin black line). And I think in a future it is also the same. (It is not OK if we want to win this competition, but it is a separate question).
Purl dots is our play, I insert 1 more, next turn after glenmetz finish to take into account Lib next turn. Anybody know how to put picture IBT lines? Red and green dots are projected bpt; I expect jumps when Uni and Copernicus in Const will be (prebuild, of cource). Red dots are "optimal" path to Newton (turn 168 ) and Sanitation (198). I assumed, that it this route AI will research Invention and Banking for us.
Green Dots are Shecspere route (turn 164). Initially it helps a bit more, but delay with Newton (194) and next delay with Sanitation (212) reduces this initial advantage. 14 turns is a big delay and we can not handel it.
I optimistically assume that at MA - IA transition we will trade IBT, not turn after as AT did. I did not take into account FP, that may help.
I think to bend our research parabola up we need focus on Universities build up. Hopefully nobody kill us at this period.
The Idea is to have 20+ City much earlier, than in IA, for our Constantinople it may be good. First we need some model for research rate (bpt) . Until now it fit well with parabola (thin black line). And I think in a future it is also the same. (It is not OK if we want to win this competition, but it is a separate question).
Purl dots is our play, I insert 1 more, next turn after glenmetz finish to take into account Lib next turn. Anybody know how to put picture IBT lines? Red and green dots are projected bpt; I expect jumps when Uni and Copernicus in Const will be (prebuild, of cource). Red dots are "optimal" path to Newton (turn 168 ) and Sanitation (198). I assumed, that it this route AI will research Invention and Banking for us.
Green Dots are Shecspere route (turn 164). Initially it helps a bit more, but delay with Newton (194) and next delay with Sanitation (212) reduces this initial advantage. 14 turns is a big delay and we can not handel it.
I optimistically assume that at MA - IA transition we will trade IBT, not turn after as AT did. I did not take into account FP, that may help.
I think to bend our research parabola up we need focus on Universities build up. Hopefully nobody kill us at this period.
I know the uni was mistake, I do believe it wasabout the only mm mistake. As said before I'm not veru good at multi-tasking.
Maybe we can get MA with rome against Aztecs, that should take care of those legionares, otherwise they will attack us sooner or later.
Probably better to sure corrupt cities to farm workers, wasn't sure how corrupt the northern cities will get. Barracks are no good, but they can be changed without problem.
Don't quite get your curve, but I seem to have forgotten we needthe chemistry road as well before getting ToG. If no one has researched invention by the time we get Astronomy we might as well go for banking just to wait and get invention for free. Then we can decide again about shakes or not. France is now at war with America, if they win quickly they will reseach faster. Maybe that we we can go for Shakes while the get powder and maybe even chemistry.
We can wait the 7 turns to take out Aztecs, do we go straight for Egypt after that?
Maybe we can get MA with rome against Aztecs, that should take care of those legionares, otherwise they will attack us sooner or later.
Probably better to sure corrupt cities to farm workers, wasn't sure how corrupt the northern cities will get. Barracks are no good, but they can be changed without problem.
Don't quite get your curve, but I seem to have forgotten we needthe chemistry road as well before getting ToG. If no one has researched invention by the time we get Astronomy we might as well go for banking just to wait and get invention for free. Then we can decide again about shakes or not. France is now at war with America, if they win quickly they will reseach faster. Maybe that we we can go for Shakes while the get powder and maybe even chemistry.
We can wait the 7 turns to take out Aztecs, do we go straight for Egypt after that?
I. Larkin
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1) Also it was resonable to pre-build. But OK, your war was good, and we still have less units then allowed. May be fast war will compensate late Uni.
2) Yes, it may be an idea, If they will be still there. BTW, where dissapear 2 Legs from near Bombay?
3) Worker, Lib, with forest cut is OK for Portugal. Lib needed for expanssion.
4) Curve come from "experimental data". It is simple parabola fit of our previous saves. It is science output at 100%. (Vertical axes). Horisontal Axes is turn's number. I checked "in mind" what will happend next turns, and future prediction looks resonable.
As we research faster and faster we may pass Chemestry-ToE route at 168 turn. (Now you finish 107). Calculation shows, that Newton route 14 turns more effecient than Shakespear. I do not belive, that nobody will research invention, but most probably GP we research ourself.
5)We must wait 7 turns, after win and heal we declare to Egypt, bring Persia in MA. Astronomy permit to take Army.
glenmetz
Prince
Wow, thats some detailed analysis Ivan. Lets get those Aztecs out of the way quickly and move onto the next target. I don't think its time for us to start worrying about our reputation yet. I think we're doing great. Has anyone checked the maintenance page lately to see how we stack up with the rest of the teams?
I. Larkin
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I agree that reputation means not much for us, but there is no rush with Aztecs. 7 turns is not that much. Also, they will pay 2 gpt. It is more important to strike them just in 2 turns: Declare, Unload, and kill them all next turn, to have size 6-7 City without opression, not Size 1.
The same true with Egypt. War must be short.
As far as we are compared to other teams I checked it out and we are only behind one team. They drew some separation ~20-30 turns ago so I'm guessing they were able to completely knock out the aztec continent and have that build up. I wouldn't bank on much more than that. Capturing Rome isn't that much of a power increase as those cities are on dirt land.
Preflight - Feud to Scandinavia for 31g and 9gpt. France will only pay 4 gold for Monotheism. Delhi barracks>uni. Mono to russia for 18g and 7 gpt. We're still running at -7gpt. Hit Enter.
IBT - Rome has a ton of Legionaries we need to be careful with them. Koreans units move out back to Seoul. Spain has a stronger army than korea so we may want to consider helping Korea out to take those towns if we want some research help from them. SoZ produces an AC.
370BC - Teno Archer>Uni due in 17. Change bombay to uni since I forgot last turn. Load eMDI and eAC into dromon by Lisbon. Move dromon stack out of Roman waters. Unload vMDI onto hill by Teo.
IBT - Aztecs move out of our territory unfortunetly. A sword and spear move out of teo into jungle which is kind of weird. Unload units next to teno. Are we managing workers for growth or production up by bombay and delhi? Our dyes deal expires and for some reason we can not renew it???? I think england had a culture expansion and knocked out some sumerian dyes. Constantinople/Delhi is now rioting. We can either go 10% luxury and get Astro in 19 or I mm tiles in constantinople so that we're at 0 zero growth and Astro in 18 without any luxury. Delhi will either starve or have a Uni in 43 turns instead. Hopefully we can get those dyes back I don't understand how we can't trade now. I go with 10 lux till we can get MP's shuffled around.
IBT - not much other than some units moving around. French are building Leo's.
350BC - Kyoto uni>market. Archer from Teno to dromon to go to Constantinople for MP. AC from Oporto to Dehli. Able to hire a geek now and Astro back down to 17. Mono and Rep to France for Invention and 31g they don't have any gpt. Move dromons into place for bombard. MM tiles in Constantinople Astro down to 16. Mono to Scandinavia for 6 g and 3 gpt.
IBT - nothing other than moving aztecs units.
310BC - Constantinople Uni>Sistine Chapel at 25spt. Astro in 13 turns at -6gpt. Teno grows. Archer into Constantinople but we still need another MP to run 0 lux. Constantinople hits 1k culture. I screwed up the years somewhere in this writeup it's turn 112 and 310BC though. 3 turns left on the peace treay.
IBT - Greeks are building Leo's. Aztecs are moving around.
290BC - Kyoto and Bombay grow. MDI into Constantinople for now but we still need 10 lux unfortunetly. Everything is pretty much ready will upgrade archers next turn.
IBT - Persians now building Leo's. Ottomans are buidling Sistine Chapel?
270BC- Invention to Ottomans for 60g and 1gpt. Upgrade Archers to LB's. 1 turn left on Peace with Aztecs. Army out of Kyoto up next to jungle. Load dromon with MDI and AC out of Constantinople.
IBT - Aztecs move off of hill for us, how nice of them. Trade with Korea for a worker and 8g give them Construction. Dehli Lisbon and Osaka grow.
250BC- Dial up the Aztecs and tell them we are at war again. Treb bombards spear in jungle and hits Army attacks and LOSES to an rspear, what the )(#$ is that. Move dromons down to the south end to help out with bombardment since I thought the army would take care of that. EMDI out of osaka takes out 1/4spear. RMDI out of Osaka takes out 1/4spear and RMDI takes out 1/4 archer. Unload AC and eMDI onto jungle. Move north stack onto LB's out of Teno. Teno goes crazy hopefully this ends real quick.
IBT - Vikings building Leo's, rsword attacks AC on jungle and makes it retreat.
230BC-EMDI takes out vspear north of Teo. I'm going for it with the AC's now. Bombard Teo with dromons to see how many spears are in it. 2/5 dromons hit and there is still a full spear left. 5/5 AC takes out vspear and promotes. 5/5 AC takes out 4/5espear. 5/6AC loses to 3/4spear. eMDI takes out spear s of Teo. 2/5 MDI takes out sword s of teo.
IBT - Aztec galleys drop units by Lisbon and Teo drops down to size 6 from a poprush hopefully this happens this turn.
210BC - Bombard with dromons 2/5 hits. EMDI loses rspear, EAC takes out 1/3rspear, AC takes out 1/5espear and teo falls with aqueduct and harbor in place. Start it on library due in 8. Bombay grows and hire a geek. Astro in 8.
IBT - nothing
190BC - buy another worker off of Korea give them rep get 6g. Oporto grows.
End turn. I suggest we go straight for Thebes in the next couple of turns since all of our units are right in Teo.
IBT - Rome has a ton of Legionaries we need to be careful with them. Koreans units move out back to Seoul. Spain has a stronger army than korea so we may want to consider helping Korea out to take those towns if we want some research help from them. SoZ produces an AC.
370BC - Teno Archer>Uni due in 17. Change bombay to uni since I forgot last turn. Load eMDI and eAC into dromon by Lisbon. Move dromon stack out of Roman waters. Unload vMDI onto hill by Teo.
IBT - Aztecs move out of our territory unfortunetly. A sword and spear move out of teo into jungle which is kind of weird. Unload units next to teno. Are we managing workers for growth or production up by bombay and delhi? Our dyes deal expires and for some reason we can not renew it???? I think england had a culture expansion and knocked out some sumerian dyes. Constantinople/Delhi is now rioting. We can either go 10% luxury and get Astro in 19 or I mm tiles in constantinople so that we're at 0 zero growth and Astro in 18 without any luxury. Delhi will either starve or have a Uni in 43 turns instead. Hopefully we can get those dyes back I don't understand how we can't trade now. I go with 10 lux till we can get MP's shuffled around.
IBT - not much other than some units moving around. French are building Leo's.
350BC - Kyoto uni>market. Archer from Teno to dromon to go to Constantinople for MP. AC from Oporto to Dehli. Able to hire a geek now and Astro back down to 17. Mono and Rep to France for Invention and 31g they don't have any gpt. Move dromons into place for bombard. MM tiles in Constantinople Astro down to 16. Mono to Scandinavia for 6 g and 3 gpt.
IBT - nothing other than moving aztecs units.
310BC - Constantinople Uni>Sistine Chapel at 25spt. Astro in 13 turns at -6gpt. Teno grows. Archer into Constantinople but we still need another MP to run 0 lux. Constantinople hits 1k culture. I screwed up the years somewhere in this writeup it's turn 112 and 310BC though. 3 turns left on the peace treay.
IBT - Greeks are building Leo's. Aztecs are moving around.
290BC - Kyoto and Bombay grow. MDI into Constantinople for now but we still need 10 lux unfortunetly. Everything is pretty much ready will upgrade archers next turn.
IBT - Persians now building Leo's. Ottomans are buidling Sistine Chapel?
270BC- Invention to Ottomans for 60g and 1gpt. Upgrade Archers to LB's. 1 turn left on Peace with Aztecs. Army out of Kyoto up next to jungle. Load dromon with MDI and AC out of Constantinople.
IBT - Aztecs move off of hill for us, how nice of them. Trade with Korea for a worker and 8g give them Construction. Dehli Lisbon and Osaka grow.
250BC- Dial up the Aztecs and tell them we are at war again. Treb bombards spear in jungle and hits Army attacks and LOSES to an rspear, what the )(#$ is that. Move dromons down to the south end to help out with bombardment since I thought the army would take care of that. EMDI out of osaka takes out 1/4spear. RMDI out of Osaka takes out 1/4spear and RMDI takes out 1/4 archer. Unload AC and eMDI onto jungle. Move north stack onto LB's out of Teno. Teno goes crazy hopefully this ends real quick.
IBT - Vikings building Leo's, rsword attacks AC on jungle and makes it retreat.
230BC-EMDI takes out vspear north of Teo. I'm going for it with the AC's now. Bombard Teo with dromons to see how many spears are in it. 2/5 dromons hit and there is still a full spear left. 5/5 AC takes out vspear and promotes. 5/5 AC takes out 4/5espear. 5/6AC loses to 3/4spear. eMDI takes out spear s of Teo. 2/5 MDI takes out sword s of teo.
IBT - Aztec galleys drop units by Lisbon and Teo drops down to size 6 from a poprush hopefully this happens this turn.
210BC - Bombard with dromons 2/5 hits. EMDI loses rspear, EAC takes out 1/3rspear, AC takes out 1/5espear and teo falls with aqueduct and harbor in place. Start it on library due in 8. Bombay grows and hire a geek. Astro in 8.
IBT - nothing
190BC - buy another worker off of Korea give them rep get 6g. Oporto grows.
End turn. I suggest we go straight for Thebes in the next couple of turns since all of our units are right in Teo.
glenmetz
Prince
Excellent. Does that means the Aztecs are no more???
Am I up now???
Lets make a plan, and I'll play tomorrow afternoon if I am up.
Am I up now???
Lets make a plan, and I'll play tomorrow afternoon if I am up.
I. Larkin
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Yes, you are up. Let make a "plan" first.
I. Larkin
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OK, here is some revew... Please, do not think thar red color mean that I am angry. It is game, after all and bad luck, actually, overhemlet minor mistakes.
In this case we could finish them at 230 BC.
I did not anticipate, of course, that Army will losse that way...
Will look at save and write more.
Idea was to strike from North with AC and unload 8-10 LB-MI to point N of Teo.
In this case we could finish them at 230 BC.
I did not anticipate, of course, that Army will losse that way...
Will look at save and write more.
I. Larkin
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Look at save, things OK except minor things:
for glenmetz:
1) Change Kyoto Market-> MI and MMange for 1 turn. We will have Astronomy soon and it will give us many Lux, I belive. Now we are short of Units. Bring AC to Kyoto. Then Pickman in Kyoto. Think how to make MP better. For example in India-Portugal, Delhy more important. Bombay better to build Corthouse first.
2) Stop worker near const, to Plant Forest. Forest gives 2 Schield mined gl only 1.
3) Teo may work on Cow.
War with Egypt. We are avarage to them and weak vs Persia. I think it will take 4-5 turn for Persia to take Memphis. And, I think it is OK. But Theabs must be ours. Why not to declare now with MA? We may bring 10 Units in Egypt in 2 turns and if it will not enough. Well, I thought Army will alive and Astronomy will faster...
for glenmetz:
1) Change Kyoto Market-> MI and MMange for 1 turn. We will have Astronomy soon and it will give us many Lux, I belive. Now we are short of Units. Bring AC to Kyoto. Then Pickman in Kyoto. Think how to make MP better. For example in India-Portugal, Delhy more important. Bombay better to build Corthouse first.
2) Stop worker near const, to Plant Forest. Forest gives 2 Schield mined gl only 1.
3) Teo may work on Cow.
War with Egypt. We are avarage to them and weak vs Persia. I think it will take 4-5 turn for Persia to take Memphis. And, I think it is OK. But Theabs must be ours. Why not to declare now with MA? We may bring 10 Units in Egypt in 2 turns and if it will not enough. Well, I thought Army will alive and Astronomy will faster...
I think now is a bit early but we should declare 4-5 turns before landing, hope to draw as many units to Persiaas possible. Will opesave later today and comment more. To bad about army but should not be that big a handicap as it's just 2 defence, ai might still attack that. Next 10 to prepare then claim Mephis. Was think of landing on hills in between egypt cities, but as said will write more later.
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