SGOTM 12 - klarius

[klarius]

The alliance with America can and should be canceled. We are paying gpt for it w/o getting anything currently. But you can sell them eduction before for a few coins, which will drive them into negative income after it's canceled. Still you could also look to unblock the choke, to let the Americans enter France.
America isn't very interesting land, but as our armies will have nothing better to do...

Other than that I would rather go for Egypt with knights, when we have troops to spare. Originally this was thought as land for Persia to expand, but Xerxes failed miserably. So we might want Thebes for ourselves.

For sure I don't want to go to any island with only 1 AI on it w/o army coverage. There will be very large numbers of units, which will eat every landing.

For diplomacy, I still think to make alliances for gpt and sell then techs. But really the alliances also should get canceled, when they expire w/o the AI breaking them.
We are currently paying Greeks for nothing.

Tech: Sure physics->magnetism is fine. And yes we want Newton in Paris (colossus) . If we manage another leader for FP it should be no problem to build there and there will be not much need for a prebuild as Paris will be at around 40 sh per turn.

 

[Northern Pike]

Thanks for your response. I'll apply all that to my planning.

If we decide to fight America, how should we trigger the war?

 

[klarius]

Well, if we can get him to declare by a boot order would be fine.
I wouldn't do peace renegotiation coupled with alliance with him. He might make peace then prematurely or to late.

But any ay, France is still a problem. They will have several pikes, which have to whittled down first with armies. And they will produce now one unit per turn (longbows and spears) in each of their cities.

 

[Northern Pike]

400 AD, end of turn

 

[Northern Pike]

290 (0): We renew our anti-Iroquois alliance with the Greeks, but now without paying anything.

We're able to stop paying for our anti-French alliance with the US, too. Before this we send them Education for 74 gold and 4 gpt.

I look around for possible allies against the Celts, but none of the obvious candidates seem to have contact with them.

We send Catherine Education for 55 gold and 2 gpt, then make an anti-Iroquois alliance with her (without payment).

We give Mao Chivalry directly for an anti-Iroquois alliance, since he has no money we could extract anyway.

A Mayan galley sinks attacking one of our caravels (1-0).

Constantinople worker (full food box) --> knight.


300 (1): We grind down a French stack of a pikeman and two LB, after it helpfully emerges from Paris (4-0).

Hattusas university --> knight, Ta-Tu harbour --> library.


310 (2): We merge two native workers into Osaka.

Chemistry --> Physics.

Tarsus university --> marketplace.


320 (3): French units are pouring out of their cities, which is basically good, but does delay our attacks on the cities. We smite a Crusader, a spearman, and an LB (7-0).

We sink a Mayan galley redlined by one of our allies (8-0).

We cut down a French LB landed next to Karakorum (9-0).

The Greeks eliminate the Iroquois.


330 (4): Our attack goes in at Paris. We get some frightening RNG luck, almost losing our AC army, but ultimately take the city from its garrison of nine (four pikemen, three spearmen, and two LB) for the loss of an AC and an MDI (18-2). We capture a worker and gain a Great Leader, whom I'll save to rush the FP in Paris when it's safe.

Outside cities we slay two French LB (20-2).

The French pick off one of our MDI (20-3).

Persia and Egypt make peace.

The Incas eliminate the Maya, so we're only at war with the French and the Celts.


340 (5): We send Chivalry to Isabella for spices and 1 gold.

We start bringing irrigation from the Persian lands to Tarsus.

We dispose of a French horseman landed next to Karakorum (21-3).

We smite a French LB and a French spearman, both around Paris (23-3).


350 (6): We wait and heal.

We get our first Crusader from Knights Templar.

Kyoto courthouse --> knight, Osaka university --> barracks.


360 (7): We wipe out a French LB and a French pikeman around Paris (24-3).


370 (8): We ride down a barb warrior NW of Bergen (25-3).

We shoot down a French LB landed next to Karakorum, though it costs us an MDI (26-4).

We trample a French spearman near Paris (27-4).


380 (9): Our strike force having finally healed sufficiently--it couldn't be done safely in Paris, of course--we advance on Orleans.

One of our caravels repels the attack of a French caravel (28-4).

The Americans have landed next to Orleans and are softening it up for us a little.


390 (10): We move our SoD next to Orleans.

France and America make peace--a little too late for Joanie, I hope.


400 (11): We storm Orleans, held by a garrison of seven (two pikemen, three spearmen, and two LB), and take it without loss, though again one of our armies has a terrible RNG run and almost dies (35-4). We thus eliminate the "Solid French". We capture two trebuchets.

Two elite victories this round produced one Great Leader.

 

[Northern Pike]

I mis-clicked Constantine , so we can't rush the FP in Paris immediately, but it can be done next turn, assuming that that's what we want.

Is it possible, though, that we might want the FP and Newton in Orleans, since that's where Copernicus is? I suppose not, especially with the Colossus in Paris, but I don't really know how powerfully Cops and Newton interact.

The French war has drawn nine American units that we can see out of their cities, which should be helpful if we decide to attack them. I think we should, since galleons to move our armies elsewhere are still some distance in the future.

We can trade for our ninth luxury (dyes) from Sumeria whenever we want. I've held off on this because we'll probably want to send Gilgamesh wool and silks, which we can't consider completely secure yet if we're going to attack the Americans.

There's a Celtic galley on the tile marked "1" on the screenshot, and another approaching Karakorum.

There's a barb camp at the tip of Bergen's peninsula. We can leave it in being in hope of promotions to elite.

I've left several workers with their movement, to let the next player decide whether he wants to merge them into Tarsus, merge them into Paris, or use them for ordinary labour.

I've also left ships with their movement, just to call attention to them.

Osaka will need MM when it completes its barracks.

 

[Northern Pike]

Joanie on the pyre:

 

[Wotan]

Good news, NP! Frogs are gone. Lovely to have Paris and the potential production it should give us! FP there, right?

 

[klarius]

Paris needs one more unit to quell resistance. Or build stuff by disbands.
I would move in all 3 possible knights. Then change to library and disband the 2 Elite* ACs and the veteran AC. The remaining 3 sh will probably be built by natural production when the resistance is quelled (though it's a tight call). Then rush FP next turn.
Orleans would starve now. Rather rush an explorer for 2 pop then change to library and rush it for another pop.

We need tons of workers to get Paris up to speed. Maybe build a few in Paris (Pyramids) after lib and FP are done and merge them again later when the work is done.
But also move workers from Hittiteland. Paris has priority.
It's also a question if we want to disband one of the armies for uni in Paris. We soon should start Newton prebuild there and would like to have lib, FP, courthouse and uni before that. Paris is the clear better location for Newton and FP. It has 12 tiles generating 3g and 2 sources of tourist income already.

I would change Bergen to library and rush it next turn. The harbor is not urgent.

I would also generally MM our core more towards commerce. We are paying a lot unit support already, so I'm not that eager to build a lot more units (and we have now 2 sources of automatic units).

I'm still thinking ironless Egypt would be a good next target. Thebes is a very good commerce city.
America can also be taken on (but let them declare by making them furious and boot order), but the cities aren't that interesting. New York will increase rank corruption in Orleans and needs an immense amount of work. Washington isn't that hot overall.

We still have a lot FoW on our map. 1 or 2 caravels should go out exploring. With the slow AI we don't know when we will get navigation to trade maps.

I would get republic from Babylon for chemistry, just to have it . There's still no reason to hold back techs from sci civs, as we will gift them anyway later. But it's probably too late to expect any science help now (we still can hope for banking, but metallurgy will come too late), so it's also not important to get chemistry out.

 

[Ronald]

I am back from North Africa, but found out the RL really does not allow me to play for the next 2 weeks, sorry. Please skip me untill beginning of April.

Thanks

 

[Wotan]

I guess that leaves the game in the hands of klarius now. And the ideas you discuss in you recent post are all good and worth pursuing so go for it. An egyptian campaign seems appropriate now.

 

[Mighty Dwaarf]

Pike, congrats on the capture of the French cities.

Good news, NP! Frogs are gone.

Wotan, careful!! the PC police will be after you!!

 

[klarius]

I got it. I intend to play tomorrow.

 

[klarius]

Well, I played (a few turns more to achieve something ). The save.

Egypt is ours. We got banking from Babylon. We will be in IA in 8-10 turns. We are at war with America with no real progress and no leaders.
Paris is size 12 and our best research city, even though Newton has still 9 turns to go.

Turn log:

Turn 0 400:
I MM a bit towards more science and implement my plans for Paris and Orleans.
I wait a turn before doing any diplomatic moves. Nothing really strikes me as necessary.

IBT: 2 celts landings. Paris and Orleans complete libraries.

Turn 1 410:
Kill the landings. Wait another turn for diplomatic moves.

Turn 2 420:
Declare on Egypt and ally Babylon, Persia and America.

IBT:
Physics->ToG

Turn 3 430:
Nothing interesting.

Turn 4 440:
Lose a knight in Egypt.

Turn 5 450:
Another bad battle in Egypt.

Turn 6 460:
Still not much happening

Turn 7 470:
zzzz

turn 8 480:
Still nothing of real consequence. I'm so bored that I give America a boot order to have them declare.

turn 9 490:
America will not be that easy. Maybe even not worth it.

IBT:
ToG->Magnetism
Paris Uni->Newton

Turn 10 500:
Still not much.

Turn 11 510:
I'm still trying to do something in Egypt. Capture Memphis.

turn 12 520:
Moving in on Thebes

Turn 13 530:
Capture Thebes finally. Pop-rush library to avoid starvation.
Babylon has banking. I buy it for physics and a few coins.
I get a few coins by selling banking

Afterthoughts:

I'm not quite sure what to do next.
America isn't really interesting and we will probably lose an army IBT.
We can as well make peace, though we lose war happiness.
On the other hand Lincoln has to die some time, as he will not vote for us.
We should delay the research of magnetism and metallurgy by 2 turns, so Newton's completes first.
This will start the golden age, which we will need to have enough gpt to buy into IA free techs (note we need peace renegotiation to be able to buy with gpt).
I want all first tier and a second tier tech on this trade also, if possible.

 

[klarius]

Well, I thought some more.
GA might not be necessary for the IA trading. We can make over 300gpt and around 2500g. Several of the sci civs don't know each other and we have republic on some of them.

So I think we can risk to go full steam to mag and met (3+5 turns) and still be able to trade for everything (nationalism might get critical if only one gets it).

Roster:
klarius just played
TimBentley up; are you with us again?
Wotan on deck
Mighty Dwarf
Ronald skipped till April
Northern Pike

 

[Northern Pike]

I'm glad that we tried our luck against the Americans, rather than letting our armies sit idle. But now we should definitely make peace with Abe to save our redlined army outside Washington, which could still be useful as a stack anchor. We're not close to taking an American city anyway.

The closest Inca city to our capital has a river. Should we start attacking on that island, assuming that our policy is to leave scientific civs (Persia, Babylon) alone for now?

 

[TimBentley]

Got it. I think I'll play Wednesday.

 

[TimBentley]

Didn't get a chance to play, but I'll be able to tomorrow today (I seem to write this often after midnight). I don't see anything better to attack than Incas offhand. Nationalism should cost <10000g and <5000g for the other two, so with ~7900g the GA shouldn't be necessary considering klarius' comments. Buying nationalism slightly raises the chance of getting an optional tech free anyways.

Edit: Homework took longer than expected, so a delay of another day.

 

[klarius]

Well, if you count only required techs the chances are indeed better when not buying nationalism. That's what one should do in a normal game where one easily reaches 4-turn research.
If you're looking for useful techs in our game, the picture is a bit different. Communism is useful for police stations in our set up. And it will not come from the AI soon.
So buying nationalism first, trades one dud against a dud and a useful tech. This reduces the chances for a required tech, but increases the chances for a useful tech.

The differences are small anyway, so I would say get nationalism if you can easily, otherwise stick with getting the other starting techs.

 

[TimBentley]

530(0): some MM
kill longbowman, then sign peace with America, getting 14g

IBT: Thebes library->university
Constantinople knight->knight
Orleans knight->knight
lose spices

540(1): sell invention to Spain for spices

IBT: Hattusas knight->knight

550(2): zzz

IBT: learn magnetism, start on metallurgy
Tenochtitlan market->rax
Kyoto knight->worker

560(3): zzz

IBT: Babylon demands gems, give in
Kyoto worker->knight
Constantinople knight->knight

570(4): zzz

IBT: Orleans knight->worker

580(5): sending some units from Egypt to Inca

IBT: Orleans worker->knight

590(6): zzz

IBT: Tenochtitlan rax->knight
Hattusas knight->knight
Constantinople knight->knight
Tarsus knight->worker
Osaka knight->knight

600(7): That's annoying, Teotihuacan needs a MP

IBT: barb appears NW of Bergen
buy steam power from Greece for wines, silks, gems, wool, republic, 2913g, 50gpt
sell steam power to Korea for medicine
sell medicine to Greece for 2627g
buy nationalism from Germany for republic, steam power, medicine, wines, silks, gems, ivory, 1615g
sell nationalism to Greece for 286g, 52gpt
Hattusas worker->knight

610(8): Electricity is our free tech
Our AC army stands next to the barb camp; I had forgotten about the barb uprising
I'll leave trading to the next player even though it's obvious. Note the current ROP with Sumeria, and the deals with Persia, Babylon, and Greece ending in a turn.
I forgot to build workers for railroads

Notes: there's coal by Constantinople so Iron Works can be built there; there's also coal unconnected by Memphis
We could research industrialization, replaceable parts, scientific method, sanitation, communism, or something worthless. The AI will research replaceable parts first. It looks like they'll go for middle age optional techs next, so that's the extent of their help. It looks like everything else other than sanitation would take 6 turns. Quick calculations showed we probably have about 100 turns to go, so I guess researching communism and sanitation would be worthwhile.
Troops are ready to invade the Inca

Here is the save.