SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

Okay, I'm fine with learning what roosy is researching T+5 from now. Maybe 20% slider on Roosy this turn and passive for the next turns? mdy did you factor in the reduction of our passive espionage for the next 5 turns with bureaucracy? Maybe 20% or 30% espionage slider this turn just to get a bit of a boost on Roosy, help with detecting his spies, help pay for counter espionage, riflery steal, possible switch to confu?
 
Yes, I did leave as safety factor to take account of the loss of espionage.


Given that it looks like we have enough land units for the Gandhi war perhaps it would be better to stay in Nationalism. Representation beakers from scientists in Oxford will be much more efficient than building wealth. This means we would only need to run the slider at 10%, not 20% to see his research. Alternatively we good hire a few extra spies, as we would be very very close without any espionage from the slider.

EDIT: I've just noticed we already have 149 espionage on Rooservelt so in Nationalism we can see his research in 5T without touching the slider. Nationalism also gives us a very cheap improvement that gives us +2 happy which could become useful in a number of cities shortly.
 
Checking in... :mischief:

^^ Execs? No? Bureau would help there and in RR-AL, but it's not necessary, I guess.

I would be overjoyed if we decide to NOT steal MSci, btw...
 
What are planning to build in Moscow now? Not cannons?

I reckon we already have enough siege. We don't need it to build executives in the immediate future as other cities are better placed. We could use a grocer there for health, but right now some gold for wealth will probably be more useful. Once we get astronomy we could revolt to Civil Service for a short to help build an observatory/grocer there.
 
What about Mining execs, though?

It would be more useful for these especially as we would have started to lay down railroads, however I can't see mining corps being spread her until T+9 at the earliest.
 
I did the analysis in an earlier post, but Nationalism's 10% bonus gives ~ 20 epp IIRC. Let's not use epp as a reason to stay in Nationalism. I'm away from my computer, so can someone figure out how many extra beakers Bureaucracy gives?
 
Okay, mdy, we can revolt three times in one GA, also if we start on T+1, so you should probably ask yourself if we want to revolt to Bureau on T+6, leaving open the possibility of revolting again on T+11, for whatever reason.
 
I've done some calculations and it turns out that Moscow will produce the most beakers if we revolt to CS, but work scientists instead of the production tiles which do not give us any commerce.
 
CS is probably better, running a few extra spies or the espionage slider 10% 1 turn isn't the end of the world (unless it delays RR a turn)

The calculation was made and CS was better even with the higher maintenance cost when under 100% science. I think switching to Nationhood T+6 would be possible if we need more espionage then based on what we learn.

I assume running scientists in Moscow doesn't mess up with great person plan.

Edit: I just took a look at the game
bureaucracy costs 56 gold more * 1.39 inflation =78 gold
Under a GA Moscow's commerce is 64 so bureaucracy adds 32 commerce * 3 = 94 research
And working all land tiles with Caste system workshop bonus and GA bonus an extra 34 hammers.

The value of bureaucracy is only worth it if the happiness from barracks does't help us and we have little use of espionage it seems to me. Especially if we run scientists instead of some of the workshops

The cost of bureaucracy will go up with time and as our empire expands
the benefits of bureaucracy will increase slightly (since the hammers from mining corp would be multiplied by 50%) when mining corp spreads here.
I believe Moscow would be able to produce mining executives 1 per turn easily without the bureaucracy bonus (unless it is running a lot of scientists, but even then probably could do it under Nationhood and mining hammer bonus)
 
Pre Play Plan:

Techs-Research Astronomy(1T)-steal steam power-research railroad-finish astronomy if we can't trade for it-afterwards depends on rooservelt.


Cities:

Moscow:
Hires only scientists. Will produce GP for 3 GP golden age, can also provide scientist for the 5GP golden age.
Builds missionary-wealth - but interrupt for an observatory/grocer when necessary.

Fish:

Fish: works fish, all land tiles except watermill(1T), then works watermill instead of gold.
T+0 Hires 2 merchants
T+1: grow and work lake
T+2: Hire an extra merchant and stop working the lake
T+4: Grows, Wall Street finished. Hire 14 merchants. Build wealth to preserve overflow.
Once mining corp founded fire 7 merchants for 1T to build the executive in 1T, then rehire them. Start workboats for eastern islands.
T+11: GP generated


Pigs:
T+0: Hire 2 artists only
T+1: Hire 9 artists (total)
T+2: Hire another artist
T+10: Hire max artists without starving
Whip university immediately, then build wealth.
Spread Sushi with the executive built in GP farm next term
This city can produce a GP for the 4 person golden age.

GP FARM:

works all hammer tiles, and however many farms are needed to ensure we grow at one pop a turn. After finishing the executive builds building allowing us to run specialists and spies. Specialists assigned in order - prophets-engineers-spies-merchants
This city can produce a GP in time for the 4GP golden age.

Siberia:

Immediately hire a spy and engineer, and then 3 more engineers once we have the ironworks, this should put this city in a position to generate a GP for our 4 GP golden age.Hire no more GP's here for now to work workshops.
T+2 Spread Shushi with executive from
T+3 Shushi executive for Beijing
T+4 Shushi executive for Paris
T+5 Build Levee
T+6 Shushi executive for Orleans
T+7 Mining corps executive
Continuously build mining corps executives.


Kamachka:
T+0 whip Sushi executive
T+1 Build Sushi executive for Siberia
T+2 Build Sushi executive for Orleans
Hire a spy, and then scientists as the city grows.
Build 3 settlers, 1 for the copper site in the south 1, 1 for the iceball iron city, and 1 for the 2 clam island. Then build a couple of spies. Then start university.

1 galley in this area permanently assigned to transporting executives


Bananas:
Whip university, workboat for clams near Moscow, workboat for the copper sites fish, build wealth, hire spy other than that hire only scientists
Builds any extra spies we might need.

Bermuda:
Spread Sushi using executive built in Bahamas next turn
Finishes Versailles, builds 3 settlers/jail/market/university/temple
Hires, engineer, spys, prophet, then scientists as it grows
Should generate a GP in time for fourth GP golden age

Bahamas:
Builds executives.
Keeps the current 5 spys. Slot in happy buildings in any gaps.
Hire scientists as additional specialists.

BCool:
whips university, spreads Sushi using executive currently in Bahamas. Builds workboats for island cities, and later executives/harbour.

Haiti:
T+0: Borrows BCool workshop
T+1: whip courthouse.
Hire merchants as specialists as it grows.

The Crabbes:
Whip library then builds university, hire spy, engineer and then scientists as specialists

Iron Spice:
Continues with granary(chopped), then start courthouse

Cuba:
Whip university, start grocer start market hire spy and engineer specialist only.

Steam;
Continue building wealth.
Hire citizen instead of working farm.
Only use it to steal steam power from Churchill.

Rheims:
Hires merchants once it has run out of land tiles.

T+0 Shushi spread by executive in steam
T+1 Shushi executive built, send to hammer city
Builds more executives. When numbers limit interferes build
caravel- university-temple-jail-colloseum
Order:
London
Shanghai
Other executives go to the China/England area.
Can generate a GP in time for 4 GP golden age.

Orleans:
Build longbows for military garrisons, and later executives

Paris:
start temple, whip T+1, overflow into knight, then build 2 more temples-Buddhist missionary for London-library-university-buddist
Immediately hire 3 prophets, and build temples to allow us to hire 2 more. Hire 4th prophet on T+2, 5th when second temple built.

Hammer City:
Build forge
Sushi spread on T+1 with executive from Rheims.
Whip forge next turn, build leveee/library
Build executives for other cities.
Build market in any gaps, we will need the happiness here at some point.

Tours:
T+1 whip courthouse
Build granary-forge


Hastings:
T+0:whip courthouse
whip galley
whip Jewish missionary for Paris
T+1:Build Jewish missionary
T+2:Build galley
T+3:Build Courthouse
Continue with granary

Nanjing:
T+0: Whip courthouse, start granary
T+1: Whip granary
T+2: Finish Courthouse
T+3: Finish Granary
Build Forge

Shanghai:
switch to caravel, whip next turn, build grocer-wealth, hire merchants as specialists

Beijing:
whip university-start galley-whip galley-temple then 3 workboats. Hire only prophet and engineer in addition to the spies.This city can produce a GP for our 4 GP golden age.

Guangzhou:
start galley-whip galley-lighthouse-library-university

Chengdu:
whips library, starts university

Catured cities from Churchill:
build replace courthouse/granary/lighthouse, then build library/university.




New Cities:

We have 6 sites we would like to settle for there resources fairly soon:
1) A city to grab the fish and copper SW of crabs
2) 4E 1N of Bermuda
3) 3N of Bermuda
4) 3S 2E of pig
5) The clam island near Stalin
6) Iceball iron city south of Curchill


Sites 4, 5 and 6 can be founded with settlers from Kamchtka

Bahamas can build the other 3 by T+8 .

There are some other islands we can settle, but they will have to wait till astronomy.

Build courthouse-granary in all new cities

Workers:

BCool island currently has 4 workers. Leave 3 to improve/scrub that island, move one back in time to railroad mines on Bahamas island. The worker currently scrubbing the island to the north will join them, then more those 2 workers back to the mainland. But only do this once critical improvements are finished.

9 worker in Tours-Hammer City area scrub the surrounding area then 3 build railroad into England and Gandhi. 2 remain to workshop around hammer city. 4 workers move to immediately build a fort by Hastings on T+2, then continue building railroads.

3 workers in France area scrub then build railroad extension into America area.

4 workers in Moscow area scrub, farm, and then railroad towards Rheims.

3 workers to the north scrub, then railroad Siberia-Troy-Moscow.

Once this hub is set up railroad over mines and to link other key cities up.

Improvements to be built by workers: any corporation resource-workshop-other improvements-scrubbing.





Churchill War:

Cease fire next turn after capturing Canterbury/Newcastl. Canterbury attack starts this turn. Gift steam and steal steam power. Redeclare next turn.

Newcastle stack is then sent North in preparation for the Gandhi war.

When we redeclare war send the London stack to take Nottingham

Canterbury stack takes Warick then moves to Newcastle in preparation for the gandhi war.

I think we should leave Churchill Coventry as it will allow the London stack to join the India war sooner.





Mao War/Stalin War

Cancel plans for this and leave him in St Nick. Gift Bing Mao to France to avoid maintenance costs and diplo demerits with Rooservelt.

Gandhi War

Send trieme in Hastings to Newcastle
Caravel built in Shanghai to Guangzhou so they can be upgraded to frigates later.

3 New galleys ere built in Hastings/Guangzhou/Beijing.
3 galleys to the north of the main continent head to Xian. Arrive by T+7.
The galleys in/being built in Beijing and Guangzhou are also sent there, transporting units from the Oxford peninsualar there on the way. This will allow us to land 14 units on NW of Viagra on T+9.

The 3 galleys built in Hastings and 2 near Mitchums Oasis head towards Newcastle so we can land 10 units on Gandhi's southern flank on T+9.

Leave Gandhi in Galley city, but keep knight on the hill next to the city just in case he sends a unit out. Send the cannon to Xian.

Abort the Marseilles attack. Leave a couple of muskets in that area just in case Churchill sends out a couple of pillagers. Get it from Churchill in a peace treaty if possible, otherwise leave it in his hands. The rest of the units are sent onto Xian-arrive between T+6 and T+7.

Only upgrade trebuchets when necessary to keep the advance going.



Espionage: Send 1 spy near Troy to Vladivostok and one from north of St Nick, the other goes Nick to Troy. If we have at least 1 survivor from stealing steam power send it to Troy. If we lose both build another spy in bananas.

We will have enough espionage by T+6 to see Rooservelt's research, as things stand but by hiring a few additional spies for 1T I think we can manage this by T+5. By my estimate on T+5 we will have 1432 espionage and we currently need 11446 to see his research.



Misc:

Trade Gandhi dye for fish.

Revolt to caste system/pacifism/Civil Service on T+1.

Settle next GG in Moscow

If we can't be sure that Mao will sign a cease fire in a turn or two delay the Mao war and military tradition steal.


I propose to pause once we have steam power on T+6 when we should know what Rooservelt is researching, or on T+5 if we can trade for astronomy by then.
 
Here's my earlier comparison of working hammer tiles versus sci under bureau:

6b sci * 3 = 18b + 18gpps

5h mine * 2.75 = 13.25b
7h iron mine * 2.75 = 19.25b
6h1c wkshp * (2.75 and 1.5*3) = 17.5b + 4.5b = 22b
 
Bureau gives +96b versus
Nationhood gives +58g + 38EPs
I get 38 EPs too, but the maintenance you calculate assume Moscow builds wealth? Or overflow gets converted to wealth?

Of course if that 96b means RR 1 turn earlier all the discussion is moot I guess.
 
PPP looks good to me, Just be sure to stretch to finish RR as early as possible (extra MM for science turn or two before if it is close)
Moscow
Builds wealth
can build another confu missionary here! this turn. We might need 2 confu missionaries to spread to london, good odds mission will fail. If it doesn't the missionary can spread confu somewhere else for ~150 gold over the rest of the game.

play when ready mdy :)
 
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