I forgot all about that. Canterbury sounds reasonable. Are we considering that? It would presumably help with Indian maintenance. I was planning to have it spamming execs for west England...
SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
bcool
Deity
I think the capital in canterbury probably is more important than an executive or 2. It isn't that expensive is it?
I agree. It's 160h, so nothing really.
LowtherCastle
Deity
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
- Messages
- 23,756
Hi guys! Happy New Year!!! Sorry I've abandoned you. Got certain things in RL that I'm not willing to compromise on. Truth be told, I haven't kept up with your progress at all since my last post, but I see you're all actively involved so I assume you're doing great. The only input I can give is that I think we would want to use the same overflow trick that we use in Fish for Wall Street for the final space parts (2 engines, and whatever). I never got around to testing it, but I assume it might be possible to finish each engine (Siberia + Moscow) in 1t or at most 2t. Complications are having buildings that cost enough to generate massive OF and poprushing before The Kremlin obsoletes (Fiber Optics?). The recycling centers have a large base cost, then maybe some sort of wonders for the max needed. If you've already built recylcing centers, another idea I toyed with but didn't test was using the cathedral-type buildings we can build after building 3 temples each.
The other complications, of course, are running slavery at some point (is it doable and worth it?), and having enough pop for the poprushing, without limiting max hammer production at the same time. This is all theoretical. Needs to be optimized somehow.
Good luck, guys!
The other complications, of course, are running slavery at some point (is it doable and worth it?), and having enough pop for the poprushing, without limiting max hammer production at the same time. This is all theoretical. Needs to be optimized somehow.
Good luck, guys!
That's too bad, LC. It's really not the same without you. 
The game's going reasonably well, though I think all of us are a bit uncertain about some strategic decisions.
On this topic, bcool and Mitchum, how are you guys for time? TBH, I'm really sacrificing some RL duties right now, and even just finishing this TS is really, really a stretch. A bit worried about being able to even complete the game shorthanded, if we hit some snags at turnplayer hand-off somewhere. There should be another 35-40t left, and I imagine all of them will be quite intense (even the last ones, since we're pushing the limits with fallout-clearing). That's one more TS per player, I guess.
The game's going reasonably well, though I think all of us are a bit uncertain about some strategic decisions.On this topic, bcool and Mitchum, how are you guys for time? TBH, I'm really sacrificing some RL duties right now, and even just finishing this TS is really, really a stretch. A bit worried about being able to even complete the game shorthanded, if we hit some snags at turnplayer hand-off somewhere. There should be another 35-40t left, and I imagine all of them will be quite intense (even the last ones, since we're pushing the limits with fallout-clearing). That's one more TS per player, I guess.
Doubt we'll be going into Slavery again. We're already running 10 Sci in quite a number of cities. Building Cristo for a 1t switch for SS OF might be doable at the end. Keep it in mind as an option, for sure. Perhaps we should have an idea of where the parts will be built and what it would take for a 1-2t build of engines and stasis chamber sooner rather than later.
For LC and other lurkers...
Some cities @ 1575 AD:
India & Advisor screens @ 1575 AD:
Some cities @ 1575 AD:
Spoiler :
India & Advisor screens @ 1575 AD:
Spoiler :
shyuhe
Deity
Happy new year all. Many apologies in advance for completely disappearing for a few months. I've managed to get my books in order again though, and would like to rejoin you guys for the home stretch if you'll have me back. Of course I have to go read 100 pages of discussion now...
No way! You're still alive?! 
Ofc, we'd love to have you back. [happy to hand off captain's armband - doesn't really fit]
It's almost 200 pages, btw.
I was keeping a summary in my first post, but I've fallen way behind now.
Ofc, we'd love to have you back. [happy to hand off captain's armband - doesn't really fit]It's almost 200 pages, btw.
I was keeping a summary in my first post, but I've fallen way behind now.Mitchum
Deity
Welcome, shyuhe. We'd be glad to have you. We've lost LC to RL, so you've got big shoes fill...
I'm pretty busy in real life myself but should be able to play another turnset if/when needed.
bbp, can you play another mini turnset until shyuhe catches up? We should also be getting mdy back soon, yes?
BTW, I display 40 posts per page, so I only see 97 pages when I view our thread...
I'm pretty busy in real life myself but should be able to play another turnset if/when needed.
bbp, can you play another mini turnset until shyuhe catches up? We should also be getting mdy back soon, yes?
BTW, I display 40 posts per page, so I only see 97 pages when I view our thread...
bcool
Deity
Quick get the net maybe we can capture the elusive LC before he disappears again. We miss you...
Welcome back shyuhe
You recruited me and then disappeared
Summary of our current thinking and major decisions we need to make
Major decisions
1) beeline Plastics and build the 3 gorges dam Or beeline superconductors through an unnecessary refrigeration so we can build the wonderful research institutes about 8 turns earlier. I'm currently thinking the Plastics beeline makes more sense even though I argued the other way.
This is my latest post on that issue http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10067732&postcount=3818
Although I didn't full realize we obsolete fur, whales, and ivory with the plastics beeline
2) ceasefire with Gandhi now (probably a sure thing)
But there is some question as to whether we need to declare again soon since we will be dealing with some significant happiness issues with fur, whales and ivory going obsolete
3) We expect to use the cultural slider soon for help with happiness (since sushi is powering our population beyond normal limits) We expect this will have a net gain on research since we will be able to run more specialists, but we are uncertain about this. Maybe the slider can be used to deal with fur,ivory, and whales going obsolete. Not sure how many happiness buildings we should build I suppose either. (which includes barracks under nationhood)
4) we expect 2 more GA (at least after this one) we have a detailed plan for this that needs to be slightly tweaked by bbp to reflect his actual use of specialists
5) We are not sure when to finish Rocketry and if we should gift techs to Roosy to encourage him to research artillery for us since we have a few cities set up for cheap espionage missions against him.
6) we need a detailed plan for the fallout cleanup and need an estimate of how many workers/ships we need to build soon
7) LC suggests maximizing use of Kremlin by whipping with staggered OF into expensive buildings into the last spaceship parts. Would need to do this before Kremlin goes obsolete with fiber optics?
8) We are prioritizing corporation spread. Mining Inc everywhere. Sushi where we have courthouses, although at some point sushi spreading might be a net negative since the city would not have time to grow to fully use the extra food but we would be paying the very high maintenance for it.
9) We are planning to settle a few more cities to get some more mining inc and sushi resources.
--I would like to see the new settled cities perhaps facilitate some of the cleanup too. by perhaps building workers out where we need them.
10) If we go with the Plastics beeline, most developed cities are building factories and then wealth/research. Observatories and other essential builds mixed in here and there. Courthouses for any city without them is a top priority.
11) current thinking on roosy is that we will conquer him and clean up his fallout in the 10 turns after we launch the spaceship.
@bbp
My vacation is basically over, but I should have time in the home stretch.
Welcome back shyuhe
You recruited me and then disappeared Summary of our current thinking and major decisions we need to make
Major decisions
1) beeline Plastics and build the 3 gorges dam Or beeline superconductors through an unnecessary refrigeration so we can build the wonderful research institutes about 8 turns earlier. I'm currently thinking the Plastics beeline makes more sense even though I argued the other way.
This is my latest post on that issue http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10067732&postcount=3818
Although I didn't full realize we obsolete fur, whales, and ivory with the plastics beeline
2) ceasefire with Gandhi now (probably a sure thing)
But there is some question as to whether we need to declare again soon since we will be dealing with some significant happiness issues with fur, whales and ivory going obsolete
3) We expect to use the cultural slider soon for help with happiness (since sushi is powering our population beyond normal limits) We expect this will have a net gain on research since we will be able to run more specialists, but we are uncertain about this. Maybe the slider can be used to deal with fur,ivory, and whales going obsolete. Not sure how many happiness buildings we should build I suppose either. (which includes barracks under nationhood)
4) we expect 2 more GA (at least after this one) we have a detailed plan for this that needs to be slightly tweaked by bbp to reflect his actual use of specialists
5) We are not sure when to finish Rocketry and if we should gift techs to Roosy to encourage him to research artillery for us since we have a few cities set up for cheap espionage missions against him.
6) we need a detailed plan for the fallout cleanup and need an estimate of how many workers/ships we need to build soon
7) LC suggests maximizing use of Kremlin by whipping with staggered OF into expensive buildings into the last spaceship parts. Would need to do this before Kremlin goes obsolete with fiber optics?
8) We are prioritizing corporation spread. Mining Inc everywhere. Sushi where we have courthouses, although at some point sushi spreading might be a net negative since the city would not have time to grow to fully use the extra food but we would be paying the very high maintenance for it.
9) We are planning to settle a few more cities to get some more mining inc and sushi resources.
--I would like to see the new settled cities perhaps facilitate some of the cleanup too. by perhaps building workers out where we need them.
10) If we go with the Plastics beeline, most developed cities are building factories and then wealth/research. Observatories and other essential builds mixed in here and there. Courthouses for any city without them is a top priority.
11) current thinking on roosy is that we will conquer him and clean up his fallout in the 10 turns after we launch the spaceship.
@bbp
My vacation is basically over, but I should have time in the home stretch.
Mitchum
Deity
To add to what bcool said, we also have to figure out how and when to eliminate Stalin. I'm thinking we take out Stalin soon (start gearing up now, even before we finish of our war with Gandhi which should be over in 5ish turns) and then shift all of our troops toward Roosevelt once we've stolen a tech or two more from him. We need to keep gifting Roosevelt techs until he starts researching something we need, like Artillery. I'd prefer not to wait until the last 10 turns to take on Roosevelt, but we'll have to see how early we can slot in a war with him.
Mitchum
Deity
We also need to figure out our play order after you, bbp. I think both mdy (when he comes back) and shyuhe should be in queue before me unless they aren't feeling up to speed yet.
bcool
Deity
I suspect it would be best if you played next Mitchum, that would give mdy and shyuhe time to catch up.
Are you okay with the plastics beeline? I think both bbp and myself support that path now instead of superconductors beeline. The 3 gorges dam is going to benefit so many of our cities before a coal plant would pay off for them, and that frees them up to build wealth so our research doesn't slow down too much.
I think roosy is best left for the end since it will cost more to take him now than any benefit we would get from it.
If we attack before the spaceship
1) we lose trade routes with him (which isn't that significant)
2) we lose trades with him (for some reason he isn't canceling the seafood trades)
3) we lose the benefits of the builds that we would do instead of a modern military. We can't take roosy's rifles/cavalry/cannons with our current army without a lot of losses. (we need wealth builds now along with observatories and other useful buildings in most of our cities)
4) we suffer more war weariness that we can't easily deal with, without taking a significant research rate hit.
5) it would not be wise to gift him any more techs (if he gets artillery we definitely want to wait to attack him for example--or it just becomes even more expensive to attack him)
6) each addition military units costs us at least 3 gold per turn in addition to its actual cost. Just 1 tank is 180 gold up front and then 3 gold per turn that could otherwise keep our research going...
7) We do get the production of his cities that we capture. But realistically we start the war in 10 turns? Then revolt for 6-10 turns which gives us 10 productive turns?
If we attack after the spaceship launch
1) We only have 10 turns, but every city can be devoted to his destruction.
2) We might be able to steal artillery from him (by gifting him some techs)
Are you okay with the plastics beeline? I think both bbp and myself support that path now instead of superconductors beeline. The 3 gorges dam is going to benefit so many of our cities before a coal plant would pay off for them, and that frees them up to build wealth so our research doesn't slow down too much.
I think roosy is best left for the end since it will cost more to take him now than any benefit we would get from it.
If we attack before the spaceship
1) we lose trade routes with him (which isn't that significant)
2) we lose trades with him (for some reason he isn't canceling the seafood trades)
3) we lose the benefits of the builds that we would do instead of a modern military. We can't take roosy's rifles/cavalry/cannons with our current army without a lot of losses. (we need wealth builds now along with observatories and other useful buildings in most of our cities)
4) we suffer more war weariness that we can't easily deal with, without taking a significant research rate hit.
5) it would not be wise to gift him any more techs (if he gets artillery we definitely want to wait to attack him for example--or it just becomes even more expensive to attack him)
6) each addition military units costs us at least 3 gold per turn in addition to its actual cost. Just 1 tank is 180 gold up front and then 3 gold per turn that could otherwise keep our research going...
7) We do get the production of his cities that we capture. But realistically we start the war in 10 turns? Then revolt for 6-10 turns which gives us 10 productive turns?
If we attack after the spaceship launch
1) We only have 10 turns, but every city can be devoted to his destruction.
2) We might be able to steal artillery from him (by gifting him some techs)
shyuhe
Deity
Thanks guys I'm still reading... I might go churn out one of the xotm's quickly to make sure I remember how to play. I haven't touched civ in months!
I did open the save though, and what can I say... impressive! The -47 with DeGaulle, -27 with Mao are both great
I haven't looked super closely yet, but are we more worker limited (scrubbing) than research for the space race?
I'm still reading... I might go churn out one of the xotm's quickly to make sure I remember how to play. I haven't touched civ in months!I did open the save though, and what can I say... impressive! The -47 with DeGaulle, -27 with Mao are both great
I haven't looked super closely yet, but are we more worker limited (scrubbing) than research for the space race?
bcool
Deity
Getting the workers to where they need to be is the most limiting factor I think. Especially the islands to the west. That's one reason I'm in favor of not settling the 2 clams site but maybe 1 city per island in the west (with mining inc) churn out workers and galleons. (first workers can chop forests for more workers)
I wouldn't even necessarily put sushi in them.
I wouldn't even necessarily put sushi in them.
shyuhe
Deity
Just some numbers...
Total beakers to research: 153036 (no modifiers)
Total hammers for SS: 11600 (including discounts but no elevator)
Estimated fallout tiles: 127 left, including 31 in Roosevelt's territory
Just a random thought, but what about building a size 1 city with sushi + mining and leaving it on worker builds? Maintenance shouldn't be too bad at size 1 and the sushi food will speed up worker builds.
Given the size of our landmass, I'm inclined to agree with going for an early three gorges - it will alleviate health issues (coal plants) and provide faster power. The extra multipliers from power should outweigh the merits of earlier research laboratories. The only question is how long it'll take to build a 1750 hammer wonder. Moscow can crankout out 216 right now, 182 outside of a golden age.
Total beakers to research: 153036 (no modifiers)
Total hammers for SS: 11600 (including discounts but no elevator)
Estimated fallout tiles: 127 left, including 31 in Roosevelt's territory
Just a random thought, but what about building a size 1 city with sushi + mining and leaving it on worker builds? Maintenance shouldn't be too bad at size 1 and the sushi food will speed up worker builds.
Given the size of our landmass, I'm inclined to agree with going for an early three gorges - it will alleviate health issues (coal plants) and provide faster power. The extra multipliers from power should outweigh the merits of earlier research laboratories. The only question is how long it'll take to build a 1750 hammer wonder. Moscow can crankout out 216 right now, 182 outside of a golden age.
bcool
Deity
Siberia is up to at least ~310 per turn, plus we can max OF so 1st turn ~600 so Siberia should be able to build the 3 gorges dam in 5 turns.
shyuhe
Deity
Just a question - do we have a current GPP plan? Or should I start building one?
Mitchum
Deity
I'm fine playing after bbp. I'm also on board with the Plastics beeline and Three Gorges Damn. When I talked about an "earlier" war with Roosevelt, I was talking about 5ish turns before launch. Ten turns before end of game seems a bit risky.
@bbp how many more turns do you plan to play and when can you have a PPP for us to discuss?
@bbp how many more turns do you plan to play and when can you have a PPP for us to discuss?
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