She's a hottie, isn't she?
SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
GMajor 45. The thread is linked in the same post. There are posts about this questions in the end of the thread. You will find also different saves implementing hammer eco (I believe shannon used mining rather than SP). YOu should have a look at the top saves (all above mine 
) in the gauntlet (go in the hof and search for said gauntlet), they have competitive dates for space race (<1600 ad) and you may learn a thing or two looking at the tech paths (the logs are also available) and use of GPs etc.
If you wanna have a look in the BOTM forum, you can search for BOTM10, where Unconquered Sun featured a (maybe the first) hammer eco in deity and posted some explanations about it. You can also grab the save. I can't remember other deity BOTM games featuring hammer eco (there was three deity games after botm10 iirc, one in higland map which wasn't appropriated for this strat, one with darius though this one was not really deity, and one with Maya but I didn't follow the threads so I can't say if u will find something usefull there) though.
) in the gauntlet (go in the hof and search for said gauntlet), they have competitive dates for space race (<1600 ad) and you may learn a thing or two looking at the tech paths (the logs are also available) and use of GPs etc. If you wanna have a look in the BOTM forum, you can search for BOTM10, where Unconquered Sun featured a (maybe the first) hammer eco in deity and posted some explanations about it. You can also grab the save. I can't remember other deity BOTM games featuring hammer eco (there was three deity games after botm10 iirc, one in higland map which wasn't appropriated for this strat, one with darius though this one was not really deity, and one with Maya but I didn't follow the threads so I can't say if u will find something usefull there) though.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
She's a hottie, isn't she?
Shut up... that's our little secret! Now I will be spammed with PMs asking my phone number
Spoiler :
bcool
Deity
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7779625&postcount=35
that post in particular is informative I think
that post in particular is informative I think
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
@Mitchum: here it is, SP vs corp, some numbers
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7811121&postcount=136
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7811121&postcount=136
^^ It basically comes down to number of resources available, as we've been saying. SCT's getting 52hpt from Mining Inc. there, which is quite high. I quoted PK somewhere saying it should be circa 40hpt. It's fairly simple math - the hammers have to more than cover the costs, though the complexity arises from the initial opportunity cost (that's not as easy to figure).
For instance, I was thinking of taking the current (Willem) BOTM to space for practice (probably won't happen now - running out of time), and I figured only something like 8-10 Sushi food and 15-18 Mining hammers if I got to 40+ cities, plus some more if I can get further reso-trade deals. That doesn't seem like nearly enough to pay for the investment.
Terra is an exceptional map for this, due to the resources available. Also, I think the cost of sending 20-25 settlers across the ocean isn't quite as high as the military cost of conquering the equivalent on Emperor+, and the settling can be done on a more convenient schedule.
We'll have to do more exploring first, I think. Getting 'Mids, HG, HS... might happen if there's good opportunity. We can't go out of our way for an engineer, but we'll have some odds. That's probably the only thing required at this stage. The rest can be decided later.
For instance, I was thinking of taking the current (Willem) BOTM to space for practice (probably won't happen now - running out of time), and I figured only something like 8-10 Sushi food and 15-18 Mining hammers if I got to 40+ cities, plus some more if I can get further reso-trade deals. That doesn't seem like nearly enough to pay for the investment.
Terra is an exceptional map for this, due to the resources available. Also, I think the cost of sending 20-25 settlers across the ocean isn't quite as high as the military cost of conquering the equivalent on Emperor+, and the settling can be done on a more convenient schedule.
We'll have to do more exploring first, I think. Getting 'Mids, HG, HS... might happen if there's good opportunity. We can't go out of our way for an engineer, but we'll have some odds. That's probably the only thing required at this stage. The rest can be decided later.
LowtherCastle
Deity
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@bbp: You've got:
Turn 83 - 800 BC SWkr1 moves to city site
Maybe I'm missing something, but if we build the chariot before the Pigs settler, I think it's better to move him to Pigs-1N and road for a turn. Then send the rice worker to scrub the city site. Have you tried that?
One other detail, you've got the worker on the sugar still scrubbing. Don't you think you should cancel his action ("mission") before you hit enter?
Turn 83 - 800 BC SWkr1 moves to city site
Maybe I'm missing something, but if we build the chariot before the Pigs settler, I think it's better to move him to Pigs-1N and road for a turn. Then send the rice worker to scrub the city site. Have you tried that?
One other detail, you've got the worker on the sugar still scrubbing. Don't you think you should cancel his action ("mission") before you hit enter?
I'm revising south worker actions a bit now. They'll do more roading and less scrubbing in my set.
I kinda prefer building a chariot in Fish, after WB and before granary whip, and having Moscow go: wkr-wkr-str-gran-str-grow. Works out quite well with the timeline on rice irrigation, GS pop, etc. It's beyond my set, though.
I wasn't really finished this turn - quit after getting the DoP.
LowtherCastle
Deity
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Are you growing with rice at 4f?
Here's my thinking on Fish. It's our only coastal city and really shouldn't build anything other than its own infrastructure and sea vessels (a galley). Instead we're using it to build a GS. Well, we really had no good alternative for that, but stuff that Moscow can build with its eyes closed, like a chariot, don't strike me as the bestest of choices for Fish.
As for the growth in Msocow. I'm trying to satisfy three goals: 1) Grow after the granary is done, 2) grow as soon as the rice is irrigated, and 3) grow when Fish can work the gold tile. This all happens right around T93, iirc. wkr-wkr-str-char-str-?-gran (I forget if we have time for something else before the granary).
As for the chariot, well, we can only speculate on worker stealing right now, because we're hoping that dG will build a lh soon. If he does, then we could consider putting off worker stealing. So it's very important to monitor the Paris espionage screen. But even so, I think it's very important to have some unit down there watching the gems, so we know whether he settled it or not. Furthermore, if he settles the gems, we want to get that unit past without having to DoW to do that. Bottom line, though, is that the chariot costs ~1t of production in Moscow and returns 2t+ every times it steals a worker and those are 2t+ that can be devoted to building while growing or making more settlers. It's really quite valuable.
.
Fair enough. Galley in Fish is clearly better. I guess I'm not super keen on the chariot, so I'm subconsciously trying to get rid of it.
I'll follow DG's prod, no worries.
I'll follow DG's prod, no worries.
No, ofc not, though I'm building the granary ahead of rice irrigation. I'm building a third worker, as well. I think I missed that, so maybe you're wondering how I irrigate rice on schedule.
LowtherCastle
Deity
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Just out of curiosity, are you a French spy?I guess I'm not super keen on the chariot, so I'm subconsciously trying to get rid of it.
Here's a AI build calculator I threw together to make it easier to follow, if you're interested.
LowtherCastle
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I haven't tested a third wkr, but I can see how putting that between the chariot and the second settler could help a lot with Moscow, for instance, by roading to the copper so that the two workers at the rice could go straight to the copper next without wasting movement turns. That might easily be worth delaying Pigs a couple of turns, so if you've got something like that figured out, go for it. I just don't see any need to speed up the rice if it's going to mean leaving some resource tile idle.
Okay, I tested wkr1-wkr2-str1-char-wkr3-str2 and it works great. Delays Pigs 3t, which is not ideal, but the copper is done perfectly on time, if the third wkr only roads to it and lets the other two farm.
The extra turns at Pigs: If 2pop Pigs from pop5-pop3 and then re-grow, we need 4 useful tiles. The four most useful are pigs+fish+ivory+mine because the rice takes so many turns to scrub, farm, and irrigate. What do you think about scrubbing the plains hill instead of the rice? Then at pop2 Pigs is 8f5h1g instead of 12f1h1g. The wb gets done very quickly. Another possibility is to road the ivory after the rice. Takes 3 more wkr turns, but it gives us 9f4h2g.
Note: Our chariot nabbed two wkrs on its first try...
Anyway, the sooner you play, the sooner I'll stop coming up with new ideas...
Just ask Big Pig, Erkon, Gnejs, jesusin....
Turnset Report - T77-83
Turn 78 - 925 BC
Confucianism auto-spreads in Galley City
I'm sending the missionary exploring now.
Gandhi adopts Confu.
DG -11 - 2pop whip in Paris
Turn 79 - 900 BC
GLH built! Roosevelt's got it.
Mao +17. He got Writing.
Peace with Mao for Alpha+Math
Turn 80 - 875 BC
DG's settler is 1W of his gems
Turn 81 - 850 BC
Churchill converts to Judaism
DG's settler is 1W of our north gems
Just noticed that DG is -4 Furious with Gandhi
Turn 82 - 825 BC
Lost sight of DG's settler. It's not escorted, btw. I noticed this in testing earlier - I razed an undefended new city. Is this a no barb setting issue?
Roosevelt's got Writing. Peace for Alpha+Mysticism. Gift Math right after. +1 for Trade.
Turn 83 - 800 BC
DG founds gems/corn/stone in the perfect spot!
Mao borders right next to DG!
They still don't know each other somehow. Note that Gandhi knows Mao and Roosevelt, while no one knows Churchill or Stalin yet.
I'll stop here for now, given all the AI developments.
Turn 78 - 925 BC
Confucianism auto-spreads in Galley City
I'm sending the missionary exploring now.Gandhi adopts Confu.
DG -11 - 2pop whip in Paris
Turn 79 - 900 BC
GLH built! Roosevelt's got it.
Mao +17. He got Writing.
Peace with Mao for Alpha+Math
Turn 80 - 875 BC
DG's settler is 1W of his gems
Turn 81 - 850 BC
Churchill converts to Judaism
DG's settler is 1W of our north gems
Just noticed that DG is -4 Furious with Gandhi
Turn 82 - 825 BC
Lost sight of DG's settler. It's not escorted, btw. I noticed this in testing earlier - I razed an undefended new city. Is this a no barb setting issue?
Roosevelt's got Writing. Peace for Alpha+Mysticism. Gift Math right after. +1 for Trade.
Turn 83 - 800 BC
DG founds gems/corn/stone in the perfect spot!
Mao borders right next to DG!
They still don't know each other somehow. Note that Gandhi knows Mao and Roosevelt, while no one knows Churchill or Stalin yet. I'll stop here for now, given all the AI developments.
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
LowtherCastle
Deity
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Very interesting indeed! bbp, do you think you could bring this test save up to date in terms of worker turns and our MM? Don't need to worry about the AIs or the map changes.
My first thought is that we want to build two chariots after the settler and capture Rheims after it grows to pop2, but before its culture pops. Assuming he has only 1 archer in there, which is probably likely for a while.
My first thought is that we want to build two chariots after the settler and capture Rheims after it grows to pop2, but before its culture pops. Assuming he has only 1 archer in there, which is probably likely for a while.
Currency is due in 3t, as is the Marble settler, so I could finish my TS with that or hand off to Mitchum now. I think we should figure out when and how we wanna take the gem city. My worker actions in the south had the intent of roading there for settling, though we should probably still road towards it so we can later move units more efficiently.
With the missionary trailing, I might split off towards China with the warrior. Roosevelt doesn't have a religion yet, and Churchill (who founded both Hindu and Juda) seems isolated. Maybe our missionary could make it to America in time to convert, which would be awesome. We'd need OB first, but I'm hoping a Currency gift gets us that.
Edit: x-post.
With the missionary trailing, I might split off towards China with the warrior. Roosevelt doesn't have a religion yet, and Churchill (who founded both Hindu and Juda) seems isolated. Maybe our missionary could make it to America in time to convert, which would be awesome. We'd need OB first, but I'm hoping a Currency gift gets us that.
Edit: x-post.
I'm wondering how fast it'll grow, with all the fallout...
Should have it already from previous testing. Let me see if it's exactly the same...
test save
I would remind that i signed for making jokes and some questionable advice in first place...
As i said that i've spent two hours figuring how that glorious third city was decided upon to. Still no clue... Problem is even without revolting it is next to useless.
I bow to teams insight unquestionable although.
As i said that i've spent two hours figuring how that glorious third city was decided upon to. Still no clue... Problem is even without revolting it is next to useless.
I bow to teams insight unquestionable although.
Mitchum
Deity
Great job, bbp! Things are shaping up nicely. Hats off to those of you who got us off the GLH path.
I won't be able to start actively contributing until monday. I suggest that you keep going, bbp.
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