SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

[LowtherCastle]

Yes, the corn/fish site.

True, now is the time to whip infrastructure. I only make it 5.5 specs before electricity, though.

Edit: YOu talked me into it. We should send a worker and setlter there soon.

 

[babybluepants]

Ok. We have several cities still to settle: Fish, Silver, Bananas, Hammers... Anything else? How do we prioritize them? I think those four all contribute something in different ways. Does Siberia just keep spamming settlers in that case? Maybe GP Farm after it's done with current batch of infrastructure and grows onto a couple of hills?

 

[Mitchum]

After 6 hours, here is the test save. Here is what I did:

• Updated map tiles
• Updated resources
• Updated tiles revealed
• Updated all AI cities we can see, including population and religions (Gandhi must have 2 that we cannot see...)
• Update fallout

I did NOT:

• Update techs
• Update units
• Update infrastructure
• Update AI relations

There are bound to be errors, but this is much closer that what we had. I hope that none of my errors will affect game play/testing.

 

[bcool]

Mitchum, very impressive!

 

[bcool]

I just thought of another use of a galley to transport the confu missionary to bahamas... It can also transport settlers to the crab island. I'm not sure if we are going to need another health resource but that island has some nice city sites.

I would prefer to settle those before filling in cities like Silver and Bananas--but I understand Silver and Bananas are closer.

Corn/Fish is better than Silver or Bananas, we need to send several workers up Siberia's way to build a road to Corn Fish. It really needs a road or a water trade route before we settle it, otherwise it has some serious health issues.

Hammers (Mao Attack City I assume) I think it makes sense if we can defend it and have a few more captured workers to get it going (although if we will need to protect any workers that are developing the area probably since the war with DeG will be on going I believe)

 

[babybluepants]

Mitchum!

I only just realized that Roosevelt has Machinery. We didn't trade that, did we?

 

[mdy]

I just thought of another use of a galley to transport the confu missionary to bahamas... It can also transport settlers to the crab island. I'm not sure if we are going to need another health resource but that island has some nice city sites.

I was thinking that after our current infastructure building phase our curretn island cities would focus on settling the islands, leaving our mainland cities free to focus on research/units/GP's.

Corn/Fish is better than Silver or Bananas, we need to send several workers up Siberia's way to build a road to Corn Fish. It really needs a road or a water trade route before we settle it, otherwise it has some serious health issues.

Edit: YOu talked me into it. We should send a worker and setlter there soon.

I agree that this site is the best one long term, and we can spare the workers to develop it, when do you think it should be settled?

Are we giving up on getting a confu missionary to Bahamas? (the city that likely will limit building Oxford?)

If we build the HG we get the uni on Moscow on T+15, the same time that we build the uni in Bahamas, so I am inclined to hope for a natural religion spread to that city to save us building a missionary and a galley in pigs.

My only remaining thought is a Confu Missionary for GP Farm. It's just beginning to build its buildings and the Confu Miss will cost 40h, but save ~20h on forge, and then ~33h on the university. Already paying off. I'm just wondering if you can squeeze it out of Pigs or Fish immediately, without jeopardizing the timing of the rest of your plan?

I'll have a look and see if I can squeeze it into our plans.

I'll also change our plan to build cats instead of maces in fish after we have whipped our last mace there.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I agree that this site is the best one long term, and we can spare the workers to develop it, when do you think it should be settled?

Roading to Fish/Corn needs 14 wkr-turns after HS, so maybe 2 wkrs asap and somehow poprushing the second settler with overflow into the Siberian uni would be timed about right. I assume that'll delay the ch in Siberia.

However, I'm fine with settling the GG. We might consider settling it in Moscow though since its +3 in the Oxford city wouldn't be insignificant. Might delay getting 2 5 xp catapults though, just another wrinkle to consider.

I've been thinking about this. With HE, Moscow is going to build a lot more units than Fish. With the GG settled in Moscow plus Oxford, it produces 9bpt compared to 4.5bpt in Fish.

Furthermore, I'm thinking the second GG we want to use as a medic for our Mao campaign, enabling us to capture Shanghai, then Beijing in rapid succession.

Hate to do this to you, mdy, but what about settling the GG in Moscow instead of Fish and building the 2 cats in Moscow? I know the short-term timing and MM isn't as good, and there's somewhat more risk with CR1 maces in Paris, but over the long term, I think it's much better.

The more I look at this, the more I think the important goal here is Beijing asap (as opposed to dG or Paris asap). The reasons being that we're going to need to accumulate eps if we want to steal Communism and it'll take a while for Beijing to come out of revolt.

---------------

mdy, I don't see anything about resource trading in your PPP. We can trade dG for his 1gpt whenever we have a cease fire. Also, we might want to slow Roosy down a bit, taking away some fo the resources we gave him, and maybe take away the ivory so he doesn't build too many WEs.

 

[mdy]

If we settle the GG in the capital it will delay our 10XP unit for the Heroic Epic. By the time we can finish the Heroic Epic in the capital we should already have, or be just about to get our 2nd GG so I don't think we need to settler one there now.

If we used our 3rd GG for a Medic 3 unit it should come in the first phase of the China war which should be early enough.

I agree with stopping our ivory trade with America, and that we may as well trade for De Gaule's one gold.

 

[babybluepants]

For Corn/fish, I think Siberia should grow back to 6 on CH, then get a settler to a max OF whip 1t before Education. The roading sequence there is tricky if we don't wanna waste turns, I'd practice it. Does this mean we're settling Bananas still? Unclear now.

GG in Moscow would typically make sense to me, except that Moscow might barely build any units for the French war if we do get HG. I would tend to settle either the 2nd or 3rd there (with the other being a medic - depends on the timing relative to China war). That said, it seems to me that we can build 2cat+1mace in Moscow with GG, and that we can easily take Paris on about T+11 or T+12 (didn't note the date).

Why would we wanna trade with DG? Wouldn't that enforce a 10t peace treaty?

Roosevelt has Machinery, so he may as well build WE's (besides which, I don't even think he has HBR - too lazy to check now). In any case, I doubt we'll attack him until these units are effectively obsolete. Or, we may cancel the deal, I don't really have much of an opinion on that actually.

BTW, is there a way to simulate building HG in testing? I think that once the game registers it being built, it's no longer possible even if the wonder doesn't actually exist?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Why would we wanna trade with DG? Wouldn't that enforce a 10t peace treaty?

No. The sequence is: 1) cease fire; 2) exchange deer (or whatever) for 1gpt. A coin is a coin...

 

[bcool]

BTW, is there a way to simulate building HG in testing? I think that once the game registers it being built, it's no longer possible even if the wonder doesn't actually exist?

That seems to be the case even if you world build out the HG.

If we are going to settle the GG I do think Fish is the better site for it (assuming that we plan to settle the 2nd GG in Moscow)

However, I still think a 5-5-5-5 attached GG is the best and most flexible plan. Virtually guarantees a 10xp unit for the Heroic Epic (at least a turn after the war begins). The leadership promotion gives us a 2nd GG faster so we can settle him in Moscow more likely in time either for more units in the case that the Hanging Gardens doesn't work out. Gives us the 3rd GG faster for a super medic.

We don't really need a GG in Fish except for the war with DeG. I think attaching the GG will get us Mao faster than any other plan.

 

[bcool]

No. The sequence is: 1) cease fire; 2) exchange deer (or whatever) for 1gpt. A coin is a coin...

Trading of this type even after a cease fire imposes a 10 turn peace. (I guess this is okay because we don't plan to attack for another 10 turns??)

Would this give us a diplo hit with Gandhi? Isn't DeG his worst enemy still?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Trading of this type even after a cease fire imposes a 10 turn peace. (I guess this is okay because we don't plan to attack for another 10 turns??)

Would this give us a diplo hit with Gandhi? Isn't DeG his worst enemy still?

Well, I did it I can't remember how many times during my turnset and we haven't got a DoP yet...

I suppose eventually we could get a minus point from Gandhi. That's one reason I was holding on on gold trades to dG, I guess.

 

[LowtherCastle]

If we settle the GG in the capital it will delay our 10XP unit for the Heroic Epic. By the time we can finish the Heroic Epic in the capital we should already have, or be just about to get our 2nd GG so I don't think we need to settler one there now.

If we used our 3rd GG for a Medic 3 unit it should come in the first phase of the China war which should be early enough.

The third GG will be pretty far away from MaoLand wherever it's born. I think we're being a bit shortsighted, but you need to be comfortable with your turnset. I think we should get on with it, we don't really have a week's time per turnset, so we should get a move-on.

 

[babybluepants]

I agree. I think mdy can decide on any outstanding issues now, being the active player. There's been more than enough discussion on all points.

Let's pause before investing in Aqueduct, as previously suggested.

 

[bcool]

Well, I did it I can't remember how many times during my turnset and we haven't got a DoP yet...

That's news to me. You can't cancel those deals until 10 turns have past but you can declare war and effectively cancel them. Does it depend on who initiates the deal? Like if you accepted a deal from an AI resource for resource would you be able to declare war the next turn?

Anyways I agree let mdy play. Everyone has stated their positions. Everyone has been heard, let the active player play so we can move on.

 

[LowtherCastle]

You can't cancel those deals until 10 turns have past but you can declare war and effectively cancel them. Does it depend on who initiates the deal? Like if you accepted a deal from an AI resource for resource would you be able to declare war the next turn?

Precisely. You can actually re-declare the same turn.
1. cease fire
2. gpt
3. DoW (of course, then you don't get the gpt... )


I doubt it depends on who initiates. But it has to be an agreement, not an extortion.

 

[mdy]

O.K. I will play up till the point where we would start the aquaduct then.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Go for it! Good luck, mdy!