SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw
- Thread starter AlanH
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bcool
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I did remove it using world builder, and I built a confu missionary in Moscow later and spread it to Siberia. Now I was able to do this because Moscow was not building the HG in the test game, but it should work either way. If we build the HG then we have another pop to whip, if we don't then we should have time to build a confu missionary (or get a lucky religion spread).
bcool
Deity
Not sure what is wrong with LC's world builder but here is the test game with confu removed from Siberia
Mitchum
Deity
Did you use bbp's test save, which was supposed to fix Mao but may have had some issues?
bcool
Deity
No I didn't use bbp's test save since there were numerous issues with cultural borders and the lack of revolt in Rheims. He said not to use it, I believe.
No, you shouldn't. I believe I screwed up midway through, by loading via WB scenario after a crash. That seems to have killed all our OF, for one. There's no revolt in Rheims, as bcool said, for another thing. Also, Mao DOWs the next turn. I don't think I'll know how to fix any of this, so let's say it's not happening for now.
LowtherCastle
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I don't think it would be necessary to replicate Mao's cities in any serious manner. Just land tiles and city locations is more than enough for MM and testing. IF anyone has the inclincation to do it... 
Mitchum
Deity
I don't think it would be necessary to replicate Mao's cities in any serious manner. Just land tiles and city locations is more than enough for MM and testing. IF anyone has the inclincation to do it...
I'll take a crack at it tomorrow.
Well, it's silly, as I already did it and it was quite a bit of work. I had several crashes to desktop and somehow ended up loading from a WB save... Anyway:
- we lost pre-existing hammers (such as the 360 towards HS in Moscow)
- Rheims is out of revolt
- DG isn't willing to talk. I guess the war got reset and we probably don't have the previous war success.
- Mao is DOW-ing. I suppose he was planning on it, and placing him closer to us makes him feel immediately ready.
I guess you can redo it tmr, if you're so inclined. Unless someone knows how to edit these issues, 'cause I don't.
- we lost pre-existing hammers (such as the 360 towards HS in Moscow)
- Rheims is out of revolt
- DG isn't willing to talk. I guess the war got reset and we probably don't have the previous war success.
- Mao is DOW-ing. I suppose he was planning on it, and placing him closer to us makes him feel immediately ready.
I guess you can redo it tmr, if you're so inclined. Unless someone knows how to edit these issues, 'cause I don't.
GG: I still can't really support the Leadeship promo. Settling and medic both have much greater long-term usefulness, IMO, and we have long-term warfare planned.
We'll see... I might've preferred getting the +1c with farms, even if we were gonna re-cottage them later, tbh.
Edit:
I prefer avoiding stuff like galleys in our NE city, frankly. We already whipped that one axe, and are doing a mace now. Either just slow-build NE or set up some whip that helps it long-term (spec slots, health bonus, whatever).
bbp doesn't believe in cottages and let everyone know, seemingly to no avail.
We'll see... I might've preferred getting the +1c with farms, even if we were gonna re-cottage them later, tbh.Edit:
I prefer avoiding stuff like galleys in our NE city, frankly. We already whipped that one axe, and are doing a mace now. Either just slow-build NE or set up some whip that helps it long-term (spec slots, health bonus, whatever).
bcool
Deity
I'm all for farms for Moscow. I heard you bbp. Gave up on cottages for GP Farm and Oxford there too.
Oh, good. Just wait 'till the Ducks kick our butts with Oxford and cottages in GP Farm now... 
We have to resolve this GG issue somehow so we can proceed. Seems to be an even split.
Spoiler :
We have to resolve this GG issue somehow so we can proceed. Seems to be an even split.
Can you elaborate? What would be a proposed schedule for this? How many units attacking, when, built where, with/without spy support, etc?we want to go down on Beijing yesterday, not tomorrow.
*Which is also why I would still like to see us settle that hammer city rather than bananas. It would capture the tile from Shanghai on T153, I calculated, though that might be off by a turn.
.
Edit: We def. need a spy in there ahead of time. Shanghai is on a hill, with walls. He could easily have at least 2LB, 2 archers + some melee in there by the time we can get anything over, I think. Half a dozen siege (pref. treb) and half a dozen maces seems like bare minimum to me, and that's a real gamble, as he has time to re-inforce no matter what. Really, I think we should have close to 10+10, and it would be difficult to follow through on Beijing.
bcool
Deity
I think attaching the GG to a unit and giving it the leadership promotion does have a long view. That unit will rack up a lot of xp and give us more GG in the future.
However, I'm fine with settling the GG. We might consider settling it in Moscow though since its +3
in the Oxford city wouldn't be insignificant. Might delay getting 2 5 xp catapults though, just another wrinkle to consider.
However, I'm fine with settling the GG. We might consider settling it in Moscow though since its +3
in the Oxford city wouldn't be insignificant. Might delay getting 2 5 xp catapults though, just another wrinkle to consider.Mitchum
Deity
Agreed that it's silly since the work was already done once, but it is what it is. If we want an accurate test game, someone has to do it. I have no idea how to fix the issues from your save, so I'll start over. I plan to update all the known world, but will start with Mao and stop if it's taking too long.
In the last SGOTM, when we did a major overhaul of our test game, one of the AI started teching a new tech every turn for some reason. Hopefully I can avoid that issue this time.
As I said, I'll work on it tomorrow. Unless one of you gets to it before then...
LowtherCastle
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Not sure what you mean by major overhaul, but imo, it's enough if you just take the test save linked by bcool above and add tiles and AI cities. The cities you can easily give the right population and estimate the culture, maybe stick in the approriate buildings and units.
To me, the purpose of the test save is to give us a template for
- testing our own city builds
- planning our worker actions
- planning our movements
- coordinating all of the above
LowtherCastle
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Well, your test save has also lost the Holy City in FIsh now (but not Confucianism, which I don't lose either it turns out). I guess we can live without that, but it won't give us the right culture gorwth for FIsh and it won't give us the right tech stealing calculations.
I don't know why that happens 
, but just adding Holy City back seems to work.
, but just adding Holy City back seems to work.LowtherCastle
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Elaboration in brief: We freeze the units in Beijing and Nanjing and strike quickly in Shanghai. Captured on DoW+2 (+0,+1,+2).
My BUFFY testing shows that we need 8 accuracy cats to bombard the walls to 0% defense. Furthermore, we need 1 cat per longbowman to knock their strength down to roughly 3.3. That gives our CR2 maces about 95% chance of victory.
Our spy will tell us what to expect. No point in going in prematurely. On ~T118, Shanghai was defended by 3 CG2/DR1 archers. As of T135, Mao is producing buildings not units, since his big cities have more hammers (in sabotage production) than the most expensive unit he can produce. He's likely to have hooked up the ivory to the south by the time we attack, but they're not better than his lbms, just a reason to build more units.
Mao still has some buildings his cities need: Intel Bureaus, markets, courthouses, etc., and his production is not strong in Shanghai, Beijing, and Nanjing.
------------------------------
So this tells me that mdy's PPP should have this alteration:
We might consider settling the GG in Moscow, as bcool suggested, and build the 2 5XP cats there. That would give us more beakers and make it easier to build lots of accuracy cats later on. But...then we would be attacking Paris with 3XP maces:
Code:
Attacking with a CR1 mace
CG1arch C1Axe C1Sword
------- ----- -------
60% 65% 32% 66%
3XP ?XP 3XP
44% 68% 63% 74%
3XP 3XP 3XP
28% 73% 69% 89%
3XP 3XP 2XP
13% 85% 75% 96%
2XP 3XP 2XP
0% [COLOR="Red"]88% 88%[/COLOR] 99%
2XP 2XP 2XP.
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LowtherCastle
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I don't know why that happens
I had seen that second confu symbol in the wb screen but never realized it was for Holy CIty. duh.
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