bcool
Deity
I'm pretty sure Mao is blocking the northern part of our continent already. I was going to have the missionary explore the coast he is close to then send him south to see what Churchill's lands look like.
SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
I'm pretty sure Mao is blocking the northern part of our continent already. I was going to have the missionary explore the coast he is close to then send him south to see what Churchill's lands look like.
A lot of options were thrown around today, but I don't feel we really nailed anything down... Maybe play a longer set Friday?
bcool
Deity
Sure that's fine with me.
bcool
Deity
Moscow builds
temporarily)
the 1st settler takes 2t unless we chop another forest (which would give Moscow -2
temporarily)
bcool
Deity
Now that there isn't too much time pressure, I'll try to get a PPP plan posted for the next 7 turns tonight. Then we can discuss tomorrow and hopefully I'll play Friday.
bcool
Deity
Tech Path?? Poly??/Masonry??/ (trade for Iron Working & Mono) / Aesthetics / Literature ? (gold issues most likely)
We would have to tech both Poly & Masonry to trade for Mono from Gandhi (might still be worth it if a decent number of AI have gold we can trade for with Mono) In the test game I got 110 gold from the AIs with Mono. But the test game seems to have more gold than the real game.
Builds
Moscow Forge/Settler/Settler
Fish starts Forge (partial) / galley?
Siberia whips Granary/ builds library mostly with hammer overflow/forge
Pigs whips Granary / lighthouse (partial) / switches to library
GP Farm Granary
alternatives (Pigs partial build of barracks instead, and partial build of spy)
alternatives (Fish build forge more so can 3 pop forge instead of 4 pop forge then 2 pop a galley)-- overflows to go into Colossus -- not sure which path is better.
Workers clear fallout near Moscow to recover reduce (priority)
worker builds road to bananas
workers sent to set up island sites
south workers help Pigs get set up primarily
north workers help Fish/Moscow primarily
worker details in the spoiler
AI interactions planned
Trade with Gandhi for IW & Mono and some gold for Currency?
Look for profitable trades with Monotheism (sell to everyone with 30+ gold?)
Peace with Stalin? I don't want to give him Metal Casting since no one else knows it. I guess he will probably remain isolated but why risk AI trades?
We would have to tech both Poly & Masonry to trade for Mono from Gandhi (might still be worth it if a decent number of AI have gold we can trade for with Mono) In the test game I got 110 gold from the AIs with Mono. But the test game seems to have more gold than the real game.
Builds
Moscow Forge/Settler/Settler
Fish starts Forge (partial) / galley?
Siberia whips Granary/ builds library mostly with hammer overflow/forge
Pigs whips Granary / lighthouse (partial) / switches to library
GP Farm Granary
alternatives (Pigs partial build of barracks instead, and partial build of spy)
alternatives (Fish build forge more so can 3 pop forge instead of 4 pop forge then 2 pop a galley)-- overflows to go into Colossus -- not sure which path is better.
Workers clear fallout near Moscow to recover reduce
(priority)worker builds road to bananas
workers sent to set up island sites
south workers help Pigs get set up primarily
north workers help Fish/Moscow primarily
worker details in the spoiler
AI interactions planned
Trade with Gandhi for IW & Mono and some gold for Currency?
Look for profitable trades with Monotheism (sell to everyone with 30+ gold?)
Peace with Stalin? I don't want to give him Metal Casting since no one else knows it. I guess he will probably remain isolated but why risk AI trades?
Spoiler :
Peace with Stalin gets more expensive the longer we wait. He's isolated. I think we should take it. Maybe let's delay a bit, though, since he's IND and coastal. Need to think about that timing... Should try and check the likely DoP cost by turn.
One option would be to put the granary whip OF in Siberia into a settler, grow on library, whip again to complete. That one could settle Silver by 50 AD, I think.
I'm a def. no on barracks in Pigs. We're terribly low on short term production there and won't be building any units save for maybe a emergency one. That city badly needs a mine or two to work asap.
I was thinking of 3popping the Fish forge.
How do we time Pigs whips? It looks like it'll still be some time before Lit for OF into GLib. We also need the library first for that.
Settling order? I think the two Moscow settlers should go to the clam/fish island and bananas. We'd need a couple of workers for that site, as well.
All in all, I feel we're still short on workers. Maybe Pigs could actually whip a worker? Moscow should certainly get one or two. I got forge-set-set-wor-rax-parth by the time Machinery could be in. Not sure...
Edit: no idea on tech. We're getting low on cash already, with more cities in the short term. I'd prefer to skip any unnecessary beaker spending, I think.
One option would be to put the granary whip OF in Siberia into a settler, grow on library, whip again to complete. That one could settle Silver by 50 AD, I think.
I'm a def. no on barracks in Pigs. We're terribly low on short term production there and won't be building any units save for maybe a emergency one. That city badly needs a mine or two to work asap.
I was thinking of 3popping the Fish forge.
How do we time Pigs whips? It looks like it'll still be some time before Lit for OF into GLib. We also need the library first for that.
Settling order? I think the two Moscow settlers should go to the clam/fish island and bananas. We'd need a couple of workers for that site, as well.
All in all, I feel we're still short on workers. Maybe Pigs could actually whip a worker? Moscow should certainly get one or two. I got forge-set-set-wor-rax-parth by the time Machinery could be in. Not sure...
Edit: no idea on tech. We're getting low on cash already, with more cities in the short term. I'd prefer to skip any unnecessary beaker spending, I think.
bcool
Deity
overflow in siberia could also go to a worker, we need a lot of worker turns to make silver city functional.
Not whipping but building the library with overflow in Siberia can have Siberia pop our next GS possibly.
Even if it means an earlier Great Library and the 2nd spy you wanted?
The Pigs partially completed builds can be put in the queue as we build up to a 2 pop whip of the library with max overflow, then we whip the spy, then whip the barracks.
Building up the lighthouse build to max overflow and then building the library up to max overflow takes longer than it would take us to research Literature. (most likely) That is why the barracks and spy whips are attractive.
Units built in Pigs would have a very short distance to travel, I think the barracks might get some use... But the Lighthouse/Library path isn't too bad. Not exactly sure how much the barracks/spy whip path speeds up the Great Library.
We could look into whipping a worker in Pigs but that would delay the Great Library
Settling Order
We just do not have the workers to settle the bananas site. The islands while not ideal are good because they don't take many worker turns to get profitable.
The HS is like building workers (workers that let you grow at the same time... something we probably want in Moscow)
Any chance Pigs could 3pop a forge for OF somehow? We could use an Eng slot in the primary GP farm...
Edit: no issue with spy. just barracks. Can we whip a galley instead? Same hammers.
Edit: no issue with spy. just barracks. Can we whip a galley instead? Same hammers.
LowtherCastle
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Glad you guys held off on playing, cuz I hadn't done any testing. Marseilles adds another monkey to the Rheims monkey wrench in our plans. Our units cost a small fortune in maintenance and we don't want them twiddling their thumbs and picking their fleas. And I agree with you that we are desparately short of workers. Building some may be necessary, but is a PITA. bcool, do you have any scouting info on more dG workers in the vicinity? And did the axe in Marseilles have any promotions? If not, then I'd propose two ideas:
1. Moscow: forge-spy-set-set. This delays the first settler to T13, but life goes on. Meanwhile, the spy in Galley City moves south. The new spy will steal Theology asap.
2. Move the chariot in Pigs to the sugar worker stack and DoW dG now!
This might lead to some battles, but that's part of a soldier's life, isn't it? Our chariots can handle an archer/axe pair in the open. Our axe can handle the C1 archer if it doesn't go W onto that hill and fortify, which is does in my tests, and which is the other reason to DoW immediately.
If no battles occur or we lose one or more, we cease fire in 5t. Otherwise, earlier. We need to open the slave routes asap.
1. Moscow: forge-spy-set-set. This delays the first settler to T13, but life goes on. Meanwhile, the spy in Galley City moves south. The new spy will steal Theology asap.
2. Move the chariot in Pigs to the sugar worker stack and DoW dG now!
This might lead to some battles, but that's part of a soldier's life, isn't it? Our chariots can handle an archer/axe pair in the open. Our axe can handle the C1 archer if it doesn't go W onto that hill and fortify, which is does in my tests, and which is the other reason to DoW immediately.If no battles occur or we lose one or more, we cease fire in 5t. Otherwise, earlier. We need to open the slave routes asap.
bcool
Deity
A galley in Pigs instead of the barracks is a good idea and it might allow us to worker steal from De Gaulle or Churchill (--opening up safer worker steals?)
I didn't see any more workers in De Gaulle area when I went thru with the 3rd captured worker
If we declare now the french archer in our lands will cause some problems unless we want to kill it with a chariot in the open?
You don't want to wait for the axe to be next to the wandering archer to declare? Or the axe to be closer?
I didn't take a screen shot of the stack (I'm sorry) I don't think the axe was promoted that is my recollection but I'm not sure. Wouldn't an unprompted axe attack a stack of 3 chariots?
I didn't see any more workers in De Gaulle area when I went thru with the 3rd captured worker
If we declare now the french archer in our lands will cause some problems unless we want to kill it with a chariot in the open?
You don't want to wait for the axe to be next to the wandering archer to declare? Or the axe to be closer?
I didn't take a screen shot of the stack (I'm sorry) I don't think the axe was promoted that is my recollection but I'm not sure. Wouldn't an unprompted axe attack a stack of 3 chariots?
LowtherCastle
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Yes, we could just DoW and attack the C1 archer immediately. It's about 67% odds to win, 71% including the possible retreat. Retreating would also be okay. The problem with that archer is that if it just hunkers down on the hill, then it ties up one of the axes.
I'd rather the axe be closer, but I'd rather not postpone the 5t wait period. Our axe against the foritfied CI archer on the hill is worse odds.
We don't want to let dG's axe attack our chariot stack. We want to attack him in the open for the chariot attack bonus, if at all. That's another reason to DoW now, because we're a bit in limbo anyway, waiting for our axes to arrive.
I like the idea of drawing that axe out of Marseilles, though.
Losing a unit would be a bummer, but just having them sit there is not really any better, I don't think.
I'd rather the axe be closer, but I'd rather not postpone the 5t wait period. Our axe against the foritfied CI archer on the hill is worse odds.
We don't want to let dG's axe attack our chariot stack. We want to attack him in the open for the chariot attack bonus, if at all. That's another reason to DoW now, because we're a bit in limbo anyway, waiting for our axes to arrive.
I like the idea of drawing that axe out of Marseilles, though.
Losing a unit would be a bummer, but just having them sit there is not really any better, I don't think.
bcool
Deity
so declare on DeGaulle, but don't enter his lands, just wait for a axe/archer pair to come at us?
LowtherCastle
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(xpost) Yes, that was the idea.
Okay, since we don't konw about the promotions for the units in Marseilles, I would propose that the chariot in Pigs immediately goes to rice-1W, where it can peer into Marseilles. THen we'll consider the DoW next turn or whenever. That gets the axes 1t closer.
Okay, since we don't konw about the promotions for the units in Marseilles, I would propose that the chariot in Pigs immediately goes to rice-1W, where it can peer into Marseilles. THen we'll consider the DoW next turn or whenever. That gets the axes 1t closer.
bcool
Deity
I'm almost certain DeG whipped in Marseilles. (I think it has an improved unimproved bananas tile it is working)
That is where the axe came from I think and if so that means it isn't promoted.
That is where the axe came from I think and if so that means it isn't promoted.
LowtherCastle
Deity
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from fallout for -5 at pop1. Only 3 health resources we see, maybe one more. Not trading for one with Mao. I don't see him growing to pop2 in 6t.But if promoted to C1, that all the more argues for drawing him out of Marseilles so we can attack with chariots, rather than having him attack our unpromoted axe.
Anyway, I'm thinking it's a bit better to peep inside Marseilles and let our axes draw a bit closer. Our axe against the archer on the plain gives him a promotion, so that would be helpful too.
Edit: Forgot about the +2
from difficulty level. Hmm...then 6t turns is just right for pop2. Interesting. Well...not sure.LowtherCastle
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Here's an alternative: Moscow builds forge-set-(set)-HagiaAsap. Per your analysis, Hagia's like building 3-4 workers. Siberia is excellent for poprushing a couple quick settlers at pop5.
Edit: I think I'll play out a test save showing this plus some of the ideas I've been toying with.
Edit: I think I'll play out a test save showing this plus some of the ideas I've been toying with.
bcool
Deity
I saw it grow to pop2 and its sabotage production went to zero this turn.
bcool
Deity
unpromoted axe, 3 drill 1 archers, 1 unpromoted archer
I moved the chariot in Pigs this turn
I moved the chariot in Pigs this turn
When are expecting to get Theo?
What I'd propose:
Settle bananas, clam/fish, silver, copper/corn/clam asap. (I'd also wanna start roading towards the corn/fish in the NW for settling soonish.) It seems doable by about 200 AD. One of the workers on the sugar has to go clear the bananas site, while another roads to and then clears the northern banana. GP Farm is very slow to grow due to so it doesn't need more than one worker improving the second sugar.
Worker situation in Pigs is a bit worse, but I think it'll be ok. The one worker from rice mines the PH, and then gets help from the bananas-site worker.
We put the Siberia whip OF into a settler, grow to 4, complete the settler. After that most likely a worker or two, completing the library when convenient.
Moscow really needs to build a worker or two, as well. I haven't been testing with HS, so maybe that helps more in the next little while.
DG: I'm ok with DOW. The purpose is just to pass through with the chariots for further steal opportunities?
There's a really good chance that wandering archer will fortify on the hill, which would suck.
Are we still sending the spy down?
What I'd propose:
Settle bananas, clam/fish, silver, copper/corn/clam asap. (I'd also wanna start roading towards the corn/fish in the NW for settling soonish.) It seems doable by about 200 AD. One of the workers on the sugar has to go clear the bananas site, while another roads to and then clears the northern banana. GP Farm is very slow to grow due to
so it doesn't need more than one worker improving the second sugar. Worker situation in Pigs is a bit worse, but I think it'll be ok. The one worker from rice mines the PH, and then gets help from the bananas-site worker.
We put the Siberia whip OF into a settler, grow to 4, complete the settler. After that most likely a worker or two, completing the library when convenient.
Moscow really needs to build a worker or two, as well. I haven't been testing with HS, so maybe that helps more in the next little while.
DG: I'm ok with DOW. The purpose is just to pass through with the chariots for further steal opportunities?
There's a really good chance that wandering archer will fortify on the hill, which would suck.
Are we still sending the spy down?
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