SGOTM 12 - Smurkz

[zyxy]

Turnlog, part 1

Turn 0, 1050AD: switch FS to Iron Works.
Sell Medicine to Arabia for 24 gpt + 12 gold + WM. I'll hold Electricity for now.

IT: Hittites land 2 longbows + 1 pike near Birka. A new boat shows up. Lizbon MDI -> Knight. Memphis harbor -> worker. Copan lib -> court. Opp cannon -> cannon.

Turn 1, 1060AD: Only Istanbul is resisting now. Kill the Hittite invasion at no loss, and injure the loaded caravel with a cannon. Disband the explorer in Copan. We have a huge need of workers...

IT: The wounded Hittite caravel flees . Cuzco lib -> knight. KZ knight -> harbor.

Turn 2, 1070AD: whip a knight in Istanbul to prevent starvation. Whip 3 pop for 40 shields in Cuzco (they would starve otherwise).
Sell Wool+Spices to Babylon for 6 gpt.

IT: Russia and Hittites sign peace. Paris uni -> palace prebuild. Istanbul knight -> knight. Memphis worker -> worker. York warrior -> court. Ozzy knight -> knight.

Turn 3, 1080AD: Republic is discovered.
Sell ToG to Maya for Republic + WM + 13 gold.
Tell Maya to remove their forces, which they do.
DoW Maya.
Things start out great as we lose an MDI and a knight against a single pike before we kill him with a second MDI . Land and move a rather massive force (7 cannon, 1 AC, 2 MDI, 4 knights, 2 armies) next to the Maya capital. Whip a lib in Tiwanaku.
Russia no longer has gpt, but Sumer suddenly has a lot of gpt (so they must have researched Republic, or at least sold it to Russia.)
Sell gems to Sumer for 6 gpt, incense for 4 gpt, spices for 3 gpt, coal for 9 gpt.

We have 666 gold in our treasury .

IT: Russia and Carthage sign MPP.
StW knight -> knight. StF knight -> knight. KZ harbor -> knight. GB knight -> worker. Tiwanaku lib -> uni.

Turn 4, 1090AD: our armies kill 3 pikes, an MDI kills a longbow, and

Hurry lib in Chichen for 3 pop. Load the troops that can move and sail them towards Rome.

I'll pause here and continue tomorrow. The MPP between Carthage and Russia complicates matters. If we DoW Carthage and start hostilities, then Russia will DoW us. On the plus side, we'll get WH and don't have to pay Russia anymore. On the minus side, relations with Russia will turn sour and we will face an enemy with rifles. Do we continue with the attack on Carthage, or switch to the Dutch?

 

[ControlFreak]

Good job eliminating the Mayans.

Bummer about the MPP between Russia and Carthage. There's 2 ways to defeat it: MPP with Russia and wait to invade Carthage until they attack us, or MA Russia if we can. The latter is much safer as I don't want an MPP to pull us into a war we don't want. Since we're planning on making a big deal with Russia in 4 more turns, lets shoot for declaring on Carthage and then MAing Russia as part of the sale that turn. It will be expensive, but I think it should be doable. EDIT: This is wrong, you can't MA a civ against his MPP partner. The only way is to trigger the counter-MPP.

Based on Rome having a similar defense in their towns, we should be able to push them over about as easily as the Mayans, but.... I don't know if investigating is worth our precious cash at the moment, but I'd hate to be blindsided.

BTW, now that the Mayan's are gone, their unit that was blocking the footbridge to Korea is gone. We should try to get our own unit there to take control of the access just in case it's needed.

If possible, try to get the food boxes to full. With replaceable parts, we can draft infantry which may come in handy either as disbandable shields or defensive cover against the Dutch.

And I'm sure you know this, but beakers are our number one mission at this point.

 

[Niklas]

I am under the impression that you can never get an AI to declare on his MPP buddy no matter what (except by triggering a counter-MPP of course). I'm not 100% certain, but it should be tested before we attempt it at any rate.

Oh, and good going with the Mayans zyxy!

 

[zyxy]

An MPP with Russia is not very attractive because of the possible unintended wars, and will have us waiting for a Carthaginian attack (I think we can DoW alright, but we then have to wait for them to attack us first.)

So what do we do?
(1) Try this anyway: MPP Russia, DoW Carthage, and wait for Carthage to attack us (or enter our lands? Is that enough?);
(2) DoW Carthage and accept a war with Russia in the deal;
(3) Change target to the Dutch;
(4) Turn around and attack, say, the Zulu;
(5) None of the above.

 

[ControlFreak]

I think we can control the MPP so it doesn't get out of hand. The only threats to pulling us into a war with Russia would be the Greeks or Arabia. If we MA them against Carthage as well, they should have something to do with their idle units and it shouldn't cause a problem.

Once we have the MPP with Russia tied to an MA with Rome deal, Carthage just needs to leave a unit within our borders on the IBT to trigger the MPP. Once Russia declares against Carthage, we can end the MPP by destroying Rome and thus ending the MA deal. With Carthage being so close to the Egyptian lands, I'm thinking we only need a few turns before Carthage shows up with a boat.

So my vote is 1).

2) is probably OK also because Russia is severly wounded and shouldn't cause us to much problem. The disappointing thing would be losing them as a trading partner. And we'd have to avoid doing any damage to them if we still want their vote.

3) the Dutch are going to be a bloodfest and I'd like to have our forces combined for that.

4)Zulu have little to offer us, no luxuries, no worthwhile towns, and we'll be on another small island with a science civ we don't want to attack but would have to defend against.

 

[ControlFreak]

I'm heading on a business trip tomorrow. I should have internet access from the hotel tomorrow night and lots of playing time in the hotel and airports. If it works out, I could take the game back for a few turns (CB and zyxy willing). Of course, that depends on where zyxy's at on the current turnset too. Just thought I'd mention it since the trip came up last minute.

 

[CommandoBob]

If it works out, I could take the game back for a few turns (CB and zyxy willing).

Fine with me.

 

[zyxy]

Turnlog, part 2

Turn 4, 1090AD (cont): I sign MPP with Russia, then DoW Carthage.
I misclick and accidentally gift ivory to Arabia

IT: A carthaginian fleet (1 galley, 2 caravels) sails for JA island. Russia wants to trade WM, and we refuse.
Chichen lib -> harbor. GB worker -> knight. Memphis worker -> worker. Theo knight -> worker.
Russia DoWs Hittites. We lost our Dyes supply, but we don't need it anyway??

Turn 5, 1100AD: switch KZ, StW and StF to frigate. Letting Carthage attack is nice, but atm we have no defenses in many places. Switch Tiwa to worker.

IT: Cuzco knight -> worker. Theo worker -> knight. Hittites land longbow-pike pair near Bergen. Carthage has invaded our territory with a ship, and

Turn 6, 1110AD: kill the Hittite longbow and pike. Land a large force near Carthage. Russia has 27 gpt now, Sumeria has 26 gpt. Not enough for Electricity IMO. Sell Wool to Arabia for 4 gpt.

IT: lose a musket, kill a knight near Carthage. Carthaginians land an MDI at Thebes, their other boats turn back to Carthage. A rather big Carthaginian force has turned back to Carthage, apparently Russia didn't do a very good job of killing their frontline troops yet.
StW frigate -> frigate. Memphis worker -> worker. Tiwanaku worker -> worker. Silky worker -> worker.

Turn 7, 1120AD: lose 4 MDI at Carthage, kill 4 musket, and a longbow, and

Kill the Carthaginian invader at Thebes. Russia and Sumeria are still the only ones with gpt.

I can continue tomorrow, or CF can take over from here, if he wants to.

 

[ControlFreak]

I won't grab the game until this time tomorrow. if you want to finish by then, go ahead and keep it.

Seems like Rome is about 2 turns away.

The stack outside of Carthage is concerning, but nothing that general "Z" can't handle.

 

[zyxy]

In that case I'll play a few more turns now.

 

[zyxy]

Turnlog, part 3

IT: kill 2 MDI and lose a knight at Carthage. Carthage lands 3 units near Istanbul. Greece cancels our "lux supply for 12 gpt" deal and doesn't have gpt anymore. Hittites want peace, we tell them to get lost.
StF frigate -> knight. Lizbon knight -> knight. Cuzco worker -> worker. KZ frigate -> worker. Oppor cannon -> cannon.

Turn 8, 1130AD: kill 2 numercs, an MDI and a longbow. Three cities are no longer celebrating WLTKD because of the loss of furs. We can either buy them from Arabia for Steam, or from Greece for Magnetism + Republic. I decide for the first: I don't mind Arabia getting Steam, but I prefer not to risk more civs with rifles. Also I want to prevent the AIs from trading among each other. So:
We sell Steam to Arabia for furs + 3 gpt + 30 gold + WM.
We sell Gems to Greece for 6 gpt, Dyes + Spices for 7 gpt, Silks for 3 gpt.

IT: Germany cancels our gems for 5 gpt deal. Instead, We sell gems for 2 gpt. Russia offers straight peace and we accept. Resistance in Carthage ends.
KZ worker -> knight. Memphis worker -> worker. Tiwanaku worker -> uni. Ozzy knight -> knight.

Turn 9, 1140AD: sell spices to Russia for 2 gpt.
Our forces are in position, and:

Land 2 armies, 7 cannon and 1 MDI. Romans have formed one of their famous carrees:

sci 20%.

IT: Well, that didn't go well: one of our armies on the Roman lands was attacked and nearly killed by a leg. We kill another leg and a horse, but then we lose the army, the mace and three cannons . Apparently the AI does attack armies, I thought it never did that...
Hittites land at Bergen.
ReplParts -> SciMeth. StW frigate -> frigate. Wash worker -> worker. Cuzco worker -> worker. FS IW -> inf. GB knight -> inf. Bergen worker -> worker.

Turn 10, 1150AD:
Hittites: kill a musket and 2 longbows at Bergen.
Rome: a 2hp Roman galley sinks our frigate . I am pulling our remaining forces out and switch Lizbon, KZ and StF to infantry.
Carthage: sink a caravel. Lose a mace, kill a musket, a longbow and a mace just outside Carthage. Bombard Utica, kill 2 muskets and a knight, and

Sell ivory to Germany for 1 gpt.

IT: lost a knight vs a Carthaginian longbow. Utica riots.

Turn 11, 1160AD: Greece discovered Nationalism. Kill 3 muskets and a longbow at Beijing, and

I'll hand off here, because we need to make plans for the future.
- I left movement on the land and naval forces near Rome and on the forces in former Carthage, except those that participated in the Beijing attack.
- The Carthage forces could head for the Dutch, or the Arabs (who don't have Nationalism yet).
- Rome will be a bit tougher to crack than we hoped, probably because they've been saving up units for a few hundred turns... I have started to train some infantry. A few infantry should be able to hold out against a large number of legionaries. Preferably we land on a hill next time .
- you may have to slow the wonder build in Paris so that we can research Industr before ToE finishes.
- workers work at double speed now.
- I did not do any MM or check for trades this turn.

The save

Good luck!

 

[ControlFreak]

Sorry, the internet was down at the hotel due to Thunderstorms. I won't be able to play after all.

Good luck CB or zyxy, whoever's up. I'll be out until Sunday.

 

[zyxy]

Sorry to hear that.

Well, that makes CB up!

 

[ControlFreak]

Well, I'm back ... and the whip is out.

Are you there CB?

I will hopefully have a chance to look at the game, although Mondays are always busy, and coming back from 2 days out of the office should really make it interesting.

If CB can't take it, I'll probably be able to play tomorrow and Wednesday.

 

[zyxy]

I think you can take it back, as there was no word from CB for a few days.

 

[CommandoBob]

I had a busier weekend than normal. No way I'll get up to speed this evening.

ControlFreak, take it away! (in the Jackie Gleason style)

 

[ControlFreak]

OK, I haven't officially "Got It" because I haven't downloaded anything. I've got meeting for the next few hours and will post again with my evaluation when I get free. Hopefully, I will play tomorrow/Wednesday.

It seems we need to rebuild our force for Rome. If we think infantry are the answer, do we just want to draft a few?

 

[ControlFreak]

OK, I downloaded the save. It seems like the big issues are, we need infantry (and possibly another transport) for the Roman invasion. We have ton's of boats, but not many units to move from Carthage to the Dutch who seem to be my next logical choice. I will try to accelerate the Rome conquest as well as move those troops towards the Hittites.

I will move towards the Dutch as well, but in a slower fashion.

I am still thinking that it will be easiest to leave the Arabs alone and make sure that they are our opponent by gifting them land from either ex-Carthage, or better yet ex-Zulu when the time comes.

My strategy for Rome may be to dump the army with lots of support on the hill by Rome. Then move it to the mountain with the cannons the next turn. They should be able to hold out long enough to get the infantry there. There is a spear that can be upgraded and brought over next turn. Once we've worn out the the units, we can take Rome and ship our offense to Veii.

Workers need to prioritize connecting our holdings and improving FS. I will try to speed up research rather than slow the build down in EDITaris. Right now it is a match with 14 turns for build and Industrialization.

 

[zyxy]

The Romans attacked our knight army on flat terrain. Would they not also attack our MDI army on a hill?
A mountain might give better chances, but even then I would wait for infantry. There's not much you can do with the army until the arrival of more troops anyway...

You're talking about the build in Paris I guess.

All else looks good.

 

[ControlFreak]

Today has been crazy and I didn't get much time for gaming but I did look at it a bit longer.

Rome
Based on Military Intel. I am going to park our units in Wicked for a few turns until we can muster some infantry. I checked and a veteran infantry does serve as protector for an army of Maces. However, drafted infantry and veteran guerillas do not. So the only units worth waiting for are built infantry or upgraded spears->infantry. Switching to Theo, I plan to be able to build/upgrade 4-5 infantry within 4 turns.

There are six galleons in the south and 4 near Rome. Ideally, the counts should be switched. If I move Galleons from Carthage through Theo, they should be crossing at the same time the infantry from J-A isle are finishing. So I plan to move three ships with all the cannons and elites from Carthage that can board this turn. Pickup J-A built infantry and transport the Infantry, cannons and army to Rome by turn 6. That's a long time with the MPP active from Russia, but hopefully we can avoid any DOWs. The ships will setup a chain then to get the Knights and Maces over to take Rome.

Hittites
Since there will be 7 galleons near Rome. We will load up the cannons, army, infantry and set sail for the Hittites almost immediately. They should fall right away.

Carthage
The units here, once resistance is quelled, will setup a border to protect us from overzealous Arabia or Greece. Most of the units will be shuttled to Egypt to prepare for a two pronged Attack of the Dutch. Libraries rushed in the two border towns will forever prevent flipping to Arabia.

Dutch
I don't think I'll get to them on my turn. Depending on how big the Hittite force remains, we can either ship them to the Celts, or ship them to the dutch. Additional forces, built up in Egypt can go by boat to Rotterdam, or by Persian ROP to Amsterdam.

MM
Right now it seems we're sacrificing a lot of beakers for shield count. I plan to shift that over my turnset to get research as fast as possible. However, CA is telling me that I'm not overrunning by that many beakers, and couldn't get one turn faster even if I make every citizen work the max number of gold, so for now, I'll leave the MM on sheilds.

I should play a bit tonight and definitely tomorrow.