SGOTM 12 - Spooks

[Paul#42]

He didn't know it last round. Nor did he have any gpt. I was keeping an eye on these things. Greeks know it too, BTW. As for this round, I basically hit the enter key and posted. It is good news though. I still want to take the cash and go after Chemistry next, followed by a beeline to Newts. We can gift 'em up in the hopes that they will go after banking or metallurgy next. I could go for that plan.

No offense intended, it might sound kind of harsh. Of course I trust you to check all trade opportunities every turn (except for gpt-trades with the Mongols ).
The way I play with CivAssist2 and MapStat open, I will be immediately prompted with any changes of the trade opportunites so scanning tech and resource offers is really easy this game
So easy that one could also overlook a change...

Helping Osman against Mayas would be quite tough right now, we should have more units there just in case. Then we should certainly dow Incas first, ally Mayas and maybe even Portugese and send 4-5 MDI / AC ourselves to take part and fish for MGL. Get those towns and gift to Osman. A war might only distract him from researching

up next:
get gunpowder to see if France already researched chemistry...
dow Dutch and Mongols (why not both at once?).
Gift up Sumeria to give him the chance to do something useful.
Give Edu to all researchers?
Take gpt from researchers?
Keep Rome and Celts friendly.

 

[Paul#42]

Turn 8 190 BC
[inter-turn]
French start KT
Berserker kills Parisian defender

Let's monitor if Paris changes its build order. Vikings could really do some spadework for us
This ensures our next mission will be successful

300 shields, that is 180 for France. How many spt do they make right now? 20? We might be lucky again...

 

[Abegweit]

-Build Markets Const and Teoti. Uni's then markets in Kyoto and Teno. In the capital, we should build more units for 10 turns, then a market.

???

Let's monitor if Paris changes its build order.

It already has.

 

[Paul#42]

???

I think it means we should try to synchronize the markets' finish dates and let the faster cities do useful things before.
It does not make much sense to have all but one market available but need to keep lux rate high for one town that hasn't finished yet.

 

[killercane]

I don't really see a lot of use in making all those wars either actually.

Everyone is belittling my friend Xerxes, and I want him to be able to research well. I think Sumeria wont be bad either in the short run, and can maybe land troops on someone like Maya/Inca when we get around to them if they dispatch England quickly.

If we stay the Astro path, we have 8 civs that can research somewhat effectively to try and get banking.

Greece
Iroquois
Russia
Persia
Babylon
Sumeria
Vikings
Ottomans maybe

If they havent started golden age, they need to now to get more land, and allow them to do Navigation (we trade for this, we kind of need ocean travel for lux trade) and hopefully banking. We have 8 chances at this so it might work.

I dont think Paris will produce KT in time, they must have lots of war weariness. Holding up to let them build it I dont think fits in with our science goals.

 

[Paul#42]

Everyone is belittling my friend Xerxes, and I want him to be able to research well. I think Sumeria wont be bad either in the short run, and can maybe land troops on someone like Maya/Inca when we get around to them if they dispatch England quickly.

If we stay the Astro path, we have 8 civs that can research somewhat effectively to try and get banking.

While I won't rely on it nor waste a single turn waiting for them, I think it's no effort for us and we should take the chance.
The only cost is trade - both gpt from our research partners and money from civs we dow. But if we make sure to have enough money and luxuries, I see no reason not to do some of these plans.

I dont think Paris will produce KT in time, they must have lots of war weariness. Holding up to let them build it I dont think fits in with our science goals.

They certainly won't as they already canceled the build. I would not even have delayed our attack, it was just a little piece of hope for another useful wonder in exchange for strong resistance...
But with Vikings in GA, I won't be surprised if we have to take Paris from the Vikings...

btw: Shouldn't we keep Orleans at size 1 till French are dust to prevent a pop rush after a flip?

 

[Paul#42]

I was looking at alexman's article on AI research.

Ottomans for monarchy is probably coincidence.

I noticed the Ottoman monarchy beeline too. I think it's hard-coded into the Ottoman AI.

Funny how things repeat.

I have found out yet how to use Ambiorix' spread sheet...
Wacken, did you use it in this game yet?

 

[Abegweit]

I think it means...

that, not only should Wacken write more carefully, you should read more carefully.

I think it means that he meant Kyoto.

Shouldn't we keep Orleans at size 1 till French are dust to prevent a pop rush after a flip?

My reasons for letting it grow as a) so that it would be useful after Paris and b) to get our own citizens in there, but you have a point here. There's only three rounds or so to go away.

 

[Paul#42]

that, not only should Wacken write more carefully, you should read more carefully.

I think it means that he meant Kyoto.

If you want me to read more carefully, I do now think he means Osaka.
For Kyoto he suggested a university first. Osaka won't get built both uni and market in time to match the other cities.

 

[Abegweit]

I do now think he means Osaka

Yes probably so, although it doesn't synchronise all that well.

Kyoto: Uni, Market 19 turns
Teno: Uni, Market 20 turns
Teo: Market 14 turns
Osaka: Harbour, Market 16 turns

The alternate line is to simply build the markets ASAP, possibly with a whip at the end. Const can be finished in 3 turns and the lux rate dropped to 10%. Only Teno is unhappy about this, which should change once we get our wool back anyway. Once Kyoto and Teno finish theirs, the rate can be dropped to 0. The other two cities should be kept small enough (size 10?) until they finish their own.

 

[Paul#42]

The alternate line is to simply build the markets ASAP, possibly with a whip at the end.

I like that, too. Whipping unhappiness for 1-3 pop will be absorbed easily by the luxury multiplier. However we need to have workers ready to join in again or a growth ahead.

However we will be able to get to 0% after France is gone. So we only need the markets for the time after sanitation I guess - or in urgency if we lose a luxury resource, right?
I don't think we will have another long war like the one with Joan again in the entire game...

edit: Thinking about it, I would favor to build markets (and banks?) timed with hospitals... However I don't want to calculate that...

 

[Abegweit]

The point about France is a good one. We can't support size 12 cities w/o markets though. Size 10 should work. Not sure about 11. Markets are also good for WLTK day (see Thebes).

As such the capital should build a market. Then, as soon as France is gone, the lux rate can be dropped to zero. Unis should be the next build in the other cities. We are scientific, after all. No whips.

 

[Paul#42]

We can't support size 12 cities w/o markets though. Size 10 should work. Not sure about 11. Markets are also good for WLTK day (see Thebes).

As such the capital should build a market. Then, as soon as France is gone, the lux rate can be dropped to zero. Unis should be the next build in the other cities. We are scientific, after all. No whips.

Good point about WLTK. Did not have that in mind (never ).

When do we want our GA?
As soon as all cities have size 12, lib, market, uni?
Or after sanitation and max size?

 

[Abegweit]

When do we want our GA?
As soon as all cities have size 12, lib, market, uni?
Or after sanitation and max size?

Certainly not before Newton's and I would wait for sanitation. There's a long game to go yet.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I have found out yet how to use Ambiorix' spread sheet...
Wacken, did you use it in this game yet?

Yes, i always use it. Just plug in the numbers you expect for research speed.

that, not only should Wacken write more carefully, you should read more carefully.

I think it means that he meant Kyoto.

Oh yes kyoto.
I forgot that we will lose part of our unhappiness with the war ending, unis sounds good to me.
What does wltk exactly do ?

 

[Abegweit]

I forgot that we will lose part of our unhappiness with the war ending, unis sounds good to me.

Also gain a lux. The capital does need a market and the other cities should get them eventually as well. Just unis and maybe courts first.

What does wltk exactly do ?

Reduces waste. Thebes is losing much more to corruption than waste.

 

[killercane]

So who is up? Mark or myself? I suspect me but if Mark wants to take it thats fine.

If me, I will play tonight.

 

[Paul#42]

So who is up? Mark or myself? I suspect me but if Mark wants to take it thats fine.

If me, I will play tonight.

Unless Mark jumps out of the bush and claims it, you are up.
Have fun and success on Paris - right back where you stopped last time...

 

[Abegweit]

1. Wacken
2. Abegweit just played
3. Killercane UP
4. Paul
5. Mark

 

[WackenOpenAir]

We should think about what to do with KT. Do we have any easy to capture strong producers that we want to have it build for us ?
Or will moscow be our next target after scandinavia ?
How long has Russia been working on it anyway ?

I agree with KC playing if mark doesn't take it first.
If KC plays, does that make it a skip for mark?
Else he would be playing 2 sets in a row or almost so.