SGOTM 12 - Spooks

[Andronicus]

My spreadsheets confirm
a) Max growth and worker mines 3 tilles -> collosus built 2750BC
b) Worker mines plains cow then joins city -> collossus built 2750BC
c) Worker goes straight into city -> collosus built 2650BC
- unfortunately my home computer just crashed and keeps rebooting whenever I try opening it so I cant post my spreadsheets

option a) best

- terrific bonus if succeeds, but I think chances remote.
- loss of early exploration (can do 1 turn curraghs immed after collosus) with reduced contacts for trade
- loss of early commerce -> reduced likelihood of philo

 

[Abegweit]

I am unable to figure out a way to build Colossus before 2750 BC due to there only being one BG cow. That is quite late, and makes our chances even more remote to nail it.

Unfortunately, the AIs begin building it asap as well and I have been unable to succesfully build it. They build it anywhere from 3100 bc-2850 bc.

So do we give up on the idea? I think that, regretfully, we have to .

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Ok, so we think the colossus is not gonna work.

Then, our goal is to reach Philosophy asap while building some curraghs for exploration and some MP to keep the lux slider down.

Now that you guys have played with excel, do you know what is the best method to go for this?

 

[Paul#42]

If we keep the pace we can tell from the graphs if the others built it - we won't find out whether they failed or did not even try

We need a worker, 2-3 MPs and some curraghs quickly - granary I'm not sure. I will play some scenarios.

I was surprised that you already submitted - it's okay to place saves in the thread for discussion without submitting it officially. I think we should only submit a save if the player is changing.
Do you want the next player to go on?

Anyway - the resulting curve is funny

 

[WackenOpenAir]

how are we gonna be sure if anyone is building the collosus, culture may also be from a temple after tech trading.
If we can know for sure, i wouldn't mind waiting for the other teams graph.

 

[Paul#42]

how are we gonna be sure if anyone is building the collosus, culture may also be from a temple after tech trading.
If we can know for sure, i wouldn't mind waiting for the other teams graph.

You think any other team will be building a temple
They would risk winning by 20k before they can build the UN

But I would feel chicken to wait for such a long term information. We are the title defenders, we should march in the first front - okay we can't because we love to discuss excessively
but we should not put on the brakes artificially... that would hurt my pride...

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Ok, my pride was also protesting a little when i wrote it

So, we unless i hear protest, i guess we decide not to build the colossus.

Do you really think a temple is bad even if we have too many shields ? When we will have a library and marketplace, it is the cheapest way to keep a citizen happy. In normal games, it is only the build cost that keeps us from building it.

I will look at some options today(1 turn worker factory maybe even?)

 

[Paul#42]

Do you really think a temple is bad even if we have too many shields ? When we will have a library and marketplace, it is the cheapest way to keep a citizen happy. In normal games, it is only the build cost that keeps us from building it.

Ah yes, there was something apart from the culture - it makes people happy.
But it also costs support hence research. Nobody would build it before 2000 BC, right?

3-4 early curraghs might make up for the extra commerce if we meet rivals quickly - at least it would be very expensive if we wait with exploration until we finish the colossus. We would only meet that close-by rival.

Getting IW quickly for example might also be crucial to build up a force ready to strike when MM comes in
(I hope there is Iron in that hill... ).

Paul says: No colossus.

 

[Andronicus]

Thinking in terms of OCC (which hopefully we wont remain in toooo long), the only way we can run size 12 (to maximise production and commerce) will be to either sacrifice commerce for lux or use market plus trade luxes (we have 5 ivory) + mp (3) + temple. Of these only temple will be avail soon.
I note Klarius has increased culture (gained 4 culture on X-nuts just prior to turn 39) - I suspect this is temple. No other team has evidence of culture increase over and above palace, with 5 of the other 7 teams being beyond turn 30 and seemingly out of the equation for collosus.

My suggestion is build 3 curraghs, then granary leaving ready for 2 turn worker - warrior for 4 workers and 3 mp warriors (all in first 30 turns) before allowing to grow size 7 and re-add 5 workers back to immed size 12 with all tiles roaded and mined where appropriate.
reg warriors can be disbanded after rax built and vet (?swords) appear

 

[killercane]

I agree with Andronicus on 3 curraghs. We should really get this horse out of the gate soon.

 

[Paul#42]

Right now my prefered start sequence would look like this:

I do not like the commerce we are getting (especially by not roading the plain cow at once). But it's the least-shields-lost-sequence I found.

We might get a granary in 2900 BC (#23) with a chop.

Maybe we need to put the chop earlier to connect the lux?

(edit: I know, I forgot to move worker1 in turn 19 - from turn 23 worker moves are bs)
(edit#2: Roading of course takes 3 turns, mixed it up with irrigating )

 

[killercane]

Warrior first is of course good for science; surely we would meet our close neighbor that way. We would have to move him out of the city and use lux though I would think. Curragh first would definitely allow for quick first contact and hopefully pottery. I vote for the curragh. Both openings waste shields unfortunately but there is no better path.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

With our slow research, i think we have plenty time for exploration and increasing commerce seems more important to me than exploration.

A 1 turn worker factory doesn't require a lot.
If we manage to build this, we could make 5 workers before growing past size 6 and instantly be size 12.

3 irrigated cows and the town make 10 food and 6 shields.
Add a mined BG for a total of 8 shields @ size 4.
or an irrigated BG and a forest for a total for 9shields @ size 5.
With the extra production from a forest at growth, that makes a 1 turn worker factory.

I will now see for opportunities to use this if we can trade pottery, look for options if we cannot trade pottery and see if we have better options even if we get pottery.

 

[Paul#42]

A 1 turn worker factory doesn't require a lot.
If we manage to build this, we could make 5 workers before growing past size 6 and instantly be size 12.

If we build curraghs and warriors I do not see us building a granary before reaching size 7. Especially not if we are irrigating the cows.

I'm running tests with a mined plain cow, two irrigated grass cows and the lake (3 food, right?) right now...

 

[killercane]

Lake is 2 food.

 

[Paul#42]

Lake is 2 food.

Dreck!

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I can get a one turn worker factory if we can start building a granary right away (meaning we must trade it from our neightbours before we would finish the first curragh)
This means no early curraghs, but a very good growth.

15 granary (size 4)
16 worker (size 4)
18 worker (size 4)
20 curragh (size 5)
21 worker (size 5)
22 worker
etc.....

This easilly allows us to be size 12 before turn 30. Between the production of workers for joining and having enough to join up to size 12, we would however have very little time to mine the irrigated stuff, so we would have to build a few extra workers to do the mining after we made us size 12.
Getting size 12 asap ensures the best research.

of course, this delays scouting a bit. I will now see how it works out if we make a curragh or 2 before the granary. I do however think, this is a very strong option. We have so much time to scout before we hit philosophy.

 

[Paul#42]

I can get a one turn worker factory if we can start building a granary right away (meaning we must trade it from our neightbours before we would finish the first curragh)

How will you meet neighbours without building a warrior or curragh?
move the worker there?

 

[WackenOpenAir]

How will you meet neighbours without building a warrior or curragh?
move the worker there?

The other teams having 20 instead of 21 tiles suggests we have an oversea neighbour taking 1 of our tiles.

With border expansion at turn 10 and the first curragh being completed before that, meeting the neighbour may indeed be a problem, but it doesn't have to be if they settle on the coast just across the water.

I will also see if we can make a 1,5 turn worker factory without granary.
Edit: of course that is not possible, it would require 20 food, i was mixing up food and shields in my thoughts.

 

[Paul#42]

The other teams having 20 instead of 21 tiles suggests we have an oversea neighbour taking 1 of our tiles.

With border expansion at turn 10 and the first curragh being completed before that, meeting the neighbour may indeed be a problem, but it doesn't have to be if they settle on the coast just across the water.

If it is the neighbour's capital (sited 3 E and either 1 N or S) that's stealing the tile, it's not on the coast (at least not on the coast we see) but if it's the second town (sited 2 E and either 1 NE or SE), it is and in that case we will meet them. Maybe on turn 2-3, maybe after our expansion.
Let's hope our prime victim is no SCI rival but some EXP civ. Greek, Babs or Sumerians would suck...

Now what would Mr. nice guy Gyathaar place there to make us really happy