SGOTM 12 - Spooks

Maybe not in the end but when we want to do gpt-trades, i.e. when we enter the next era.

IIRC the civs at war with them don't give a s**t on his mourning over our mean deeds... :mischief:
And the gpt-rep is not necessarily bound tightly to success in a UN-vote... :hmm:
 
Maybe not in the end but when we want to do gpt-trades, i.e. when we enter the next era.

IIRC the civs at war with them don't give a s**t on his mourning over our mean deeds... :mischief:
We could consider ganging up on the Russians at that point. Too bad they are scientific.
And the gpt-rep is not necessarily bound tightly to success in a UN-vote... :hmm:
Attitude is what counts, not rep.
 
Well turning up science is important to get Physics in 5 as well. Every turn really counts from here on out. Hopefully we can do 4 turners the rest of the way through MAs.
 
After Chemistry, have a look at our science. If we are making too much for banking in 4, we could delay banking until after the golden age. If we can barely do it in 4 and we cannot do the more expensive techs in 4 yet, then we could do it next.

We should have done it before chem though.
 
We are already one turn into Physics. With Trondheim, Bergen and those unis being built I had figured we should be able to make it in 4 turns... :(
We will need five turns now. My bad.

Some questions to prevent further mess: :blush:
I'd like to squeeze out a worker from Const now - granary is full. Okay?

Also workers from every city in Japtec that would need specialists.
I'd like to reduce MP to two ACs in Kyoto and Teno. Okay?

The first three workers from Japtec I plan to ship to Paris.
All further workers from Japtec will be shipped to India, right?
Build mines for Delhi? Then slave chopping in Portugal?

No dromons possible anymore, market in Teo next?
 
Would the reputation thing maybe best be solved by keeping alive the one we screwed over and allying everyone against him in the end ?

If that is needed of course. If not, i'd rather capture them.

I dont think our trade rep matters with UN voting, my worry is the tech trading at the age change

Whilst we can trade lux and gpt in exchange for the scientifics free techs via renegotiating peace, it is a onceoff chance (ie once you decide to renegotiate peace you either take the best deal they offer or dow - not ideal with our required victory)

At the last age change we were able to compare best offers to maximise the chance of buying techs, this time we will have to guess who will give best offer and try trading with them.

One thought I had is to gift all avail lux to the AIs we can trade with at least 20 turns before the age change (any time now), we allow the gift to continue until we have gifted them and they get their freebie tech.
Then whilst still in the big picture we cancel the lux deal (with no rep hit since more than 20 turns old ) and have multiple luxes avail for trade which we can get full tech price for via peace renegotiation.
The other advantage is with multiple luxes the AIs may have more money avail to fund our research (ie so we sell rather than gift techs)
At the next age change we require to trade for all 3 first tier techs (medicine, steam and nationalism) so that we get a second tier as our freebie (hopefully not ironclads or commie)
I suggest not trading any further optional techs (eg monarchy or chivalry) to scientific AIs to maximise our trading opportunities at that time
 
No dromons possible anymore, market in Teo next?

How about a worker?

I have been convinced that Wacken's timing for markets is the correct one - we just need to reduce some pop in some cities to allow 100% science in the meantime
 
Indeed, it is not that i want to completely line out the game for you, but i think the build orders i posted are pretty ok.

Paul, the rest of your suggestions are ok i think.

About the free luxes i don't know. Personally i think you guys have a little "fancyplaysyndrome" like we call it in poker. It may be cool to try all kinds of tricks, but often straightforward play will work just as well or better. I didn't like the idea to make wars between them without good reason, and i doubt this is gonna do any good for us either.
 
At the last age change we were able to compare best offers to maximise the chance of buying techs, this time we will have to guess who will give best offer and try trading with them.
Why? :confused:
One thought I had is to gift all avail lux to the AIs we can trade with at least 20 turns before the age change (any time now), we allow the gift to continue until we have gifted them and they get their freebie tech.
Then whilst still in the big picture we cancel the lux deal (with no rep hit since more than 20 turns old ) and have multiple luxes avail for trade which we can get full tech price for via peace renegotiation.
The other advantage is with multiple luxes the AIs may have more money avail to fund our research (ie so we sell rather than gift techs)
At the next age change we require to trade for all 3 first tier techs (medicine, steam and nationalism) so that we get a second tier as our freebie (hopefully not ironclads or commie)
We need to turn "always renegotiate deals" off for that purpose, right? Or is it already?
I think it's worth a try. Much gain, no loss.
edit: Of course we raise the risk to get a trade route interrupted - but once your reputation is ruined...
I suggest not trading any further optional techs (eg monarchy or chivalry) to scientific AIs to maximise our trading opportunities at that time
:agree:
How about a worker?
Of course after the worker(s) that are already scheduled - I just had not adjusted production to the plan this turn :blush:
Indeed, it is not that i want to completely line out the game for you, but i think the build orders i posted are pretty ok.
They are and I don't doubt them. But I think we should always validate them against the current situation which might afford some minor changes. Like the worker now builds in our core towns to keep science at 100%.
About the free luxes i don't know. Personally i think you guys have a little "fancyplaysyndrome" like we call it in poker. It may be cool to try all kinds of tricks, but often straightforward play will work just as well or better. I didn't like the idea to make wars between them without good reason, and i doubt this is gonna do any good for us either.
That's what I was thinking of when the bad news came in. However it was one of the few wars we did not ignite - but you are right, the risk of such a war beyond our control is tough to calculate.
Otoh if we cause local wars we migth lower the chance that those civs involved get different ideas like exploring the world with ships (and peer greedily at our weakly defended towns...). :shifty:

Looking at the tourist commerce we get from the AT wonders - surprisingly also applicable for science - I think we should think about taking Istanbul too. HG and GW will provide some nice benefit. When we finished Portugal and Spain, we might ally Osman against Mayas or Incas (or both in that sequence), protect his Edrine heroically :D and let them capture Istanbul. :evil:
I wonder how the flip risk would be if we "convert" its population quickly - Mayas or Incas would certainly help downsizing Istanbul...
 
I think we have enough on our hands aiming to get Portugal, Spain and Greece along side getting our cities up to size 21 with hospitals.
Agree once the above objectives are within reach we should look further but not at expence of delaying above.
 
Once we got Trondheim, the big american SoD might head for Orleans.

What do you guys think about avoiding to fight it by taking Orleans, then dow, take Bergen (hopefully just 2-3 pikes) and head for New York (by ship) and Washington, gift Bergen (and any other town other than Paris) just before the SoD reaches it?
I think they rather go for their former towns than for our Paris - right? Or is this too much a gamble? :shifty:

Or would you guys rather extort that SoD first? :hmm:
 
If their stack is to move out of Bergen, it should be moved out already now as they have 2 viking targets to move for. I think it is best to investigate american cities before executing such plans. If there is nothing that will cause any problems, it may be quite a plan. Don't forget Bergen is on hills of course.
 
We might also ignore Bergen first, go for New York and Washington if weakly defended - and wait for the SoD to pass Bergen before taking it with Paris' troops... :hmm:
 
Sounds like it may be a plan as well.
We have an alliance though, when can we dow without having killed the vikings ?

Just looked at the whole tourism bonus thing. I see Teno also has a bonus already that is helping it very well. We should indeed take Istanbul someday. The Wall And Oracle may would soon provide us another 20 commerce or so. HG is never gonna have any gold value. It won't be easy to build lib and uni there though.
 
Sounds like it may be a plan as well.
We have an alliance though, when can we dow without having killed the vikings ?
Just after defeating them. Units from Orleans will come handy to protect Paris, injured units in Trondheim (2 of 11?) may rest there and 6-8 units (1-3 lost) might head for NY along with 6 dromons - if there are 3 pikes that might be sufficient. :trouble:
 
I suggest we let the whole team think about this for a while. You could of course investigate the american cities. That would make discussions a lot easier.
 
Now that is kind of mean - it will take me another 7 hours to post screenies.
I could than wait for ~3-4 hours and if enough replies came in and we found a consense, I could play another two turns tonight...

But I consider this important enough to wait that while...
 
I have to admit that I lost track. I am about 5 or 6 pages back just reading and I do not have the time to do that at the moment due to increased work and limited time during the weekends. I am sorry that I couldn't be of any help here and have to drop out this time. You guys are just too fast for me. Once again sorry for this.
 
Well, no need to catch up immediately, I've not finished yet. :pat:

I don't expect my turnset to end before Friday night... :rolleyes:
 
Seems to me the immediate thing is to take remaining Viking cities, then perhaps investigate American ones - how do we rate compared to them? - it was average at the start of the war if I remember correctly.

I do have some concerns that gifting Orleans or allowing Americans to pillage Parisian tiles would set back our science which should be our No1 focus.

If we could drag American forces south of Bergan by capturing New York or Washington I would support it
Otherwise ally them against Hittites after Vikes gone to occupy them whilst our French area forces looks to greener pastures in Greek lands
 
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