SGOTM 12 - Spooks

[Andronicus]

I wonder whether allying Portugal first might send India's troops north away from Delhi, whereas allying Mayans first might bring troops from their northern town closer to Delhi leaving similar situation to Paris where all their troops remained around the capital.
I doubt India would over run Portugal too quickly as Portugal could spit out 20s replacements faster than India makes 40s MDIs.

PS
Good to see some serious psyching out of the opposition

 

[Paul#42]

I wonder whether allying Portugal first might send India's troops north away from Delhi, whereas allying Mayans first might bring troops from their northern town closer to Delhi leaving similar situation to Paris where all their troops remained around the capital.
I doubt India would over run Portugal too quickly as Portugal could spit out 20s replacements faster than India makes 40s MDIs.

I'd rather see the Indians south, the possible front is further away from both their cities than the northern front would be.
I favor allying Mayas frist and Portugese later to distract Gandhi's forces.
Mayas should also be tougher because they might get their GA.

Kyoto
The forest cut for the library here isn't gonna work out in time. The forest being planted N,NE of Kyoto should not be cut. Kyoto can use it for production at max size.

worker tasks
Analysing the improvement situation, it seems I messed some things up growing tired in the final turn. But the plan is still valid and not much lost (one worker turn all in all - and some confidence )

1) worker near Const - stop him, let him plant forest there (one worker turn lost). A mine is nonsense there.

2) 3 slaves 3E of Kyoto just started planting. stop and let them go W (to N-NE of Kyoto), help plant forest. (no turn lost, they started after 2 tiles movement)
Two workers from Egypt join the party next turn.
those 4 workers east of Osaka also join the plant N-NE of Kyoto in two turns and help complete plant and chop in that turn ==> right on time for the library to finish.
maths: (9+4 turns needed. already done (#100): 2x3*.5= 3. Next turn (#101) 7x.5 = 3.5. (total 6.5) final turn (#102) 7x.5 + 3*1=6.5 (total 13 turns) q.e.d.
edit: this needs all four native workers as it is 2.5 worker turns needed to complete the plant and 4.0 to chop then, but only 7 slaves free to - we can't devide the native worker in two. So in the final two turns, just one of the slaves is spare for another task.
Anybody still listening?

So on the bright side - it is not as bad as it seemed - yet I'm far from being content...

btw: curragh should leave French water to spare war weariness.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Ok, just don't forget to make new plans for Kyoto then to have 10 spt (14 before corruption) when the culture expands.
I don't check all your numbers now, but if you can cut a forest within 4 turns, i guess that's good. If however you cannot do the other needed tile improvements wihin the needed time, it is not of much use.

BTW, it is good to be critical on yourself, but don't overdo it.

 

[Andronicus]

Dont forget when dow India we lose spice for ivory trade. I note Incans and Ottomen have visible spices, after dow we might want to see if we can trade for these otherwise will need to use lux slider.
(I would suggest placing a reg dromon under the curragh in case an Indian galley attacks and kills the curragh - taking that spot would block our trade routes which would be bad)

Persia has 2gpt avail if we wish to gift Theology. May be worthwhile if we want any alliances eg against Hittites or Monguls. Actually they will give us 2gpt for rop!
Scandinavia will offer 3gpt + 4g for mono, perhaps next turn when our French alliance runs out?
Korea will give 16g for mono (it will get free techs eventually anyway)
Russia will give 3gpt +3g for Theology
Arabs will give 18g for currency
Babs will give 6g for rop

Thats 8gpt + 47g avail if we are willing to give up theol monopoly, or 5gpt if not

 

[markh]

Sorry, to inform you late, but I need a skip or swap as I will have to work late the whole week and I will not have the necessary concentration in the evening to play this game as careful as I want. I do not want to spoil the team's progress just to play a set through being much less concentrated than I should be. Sorry again.

 

[Paul#42]

If however you cannot do the other needed tile improvements wihin the needed time, it is not of much use.

It is of use because it gives the library 3 turns earlier.

BTW, it is good to be critical on yourself, but don't overdo it.

Just where it is appropriate. I was waiting for a reply like that

Dont forget when dow India we lose spice for ivory trade. I note Incans and Ottomen have visible spices, after dow we might want to see if we can trade for these otherwise will need to use lux slider.
(I would suggest placing a reg dromon under the curragh in case an Indian galley attacks and kills the curragh - taking that spot would block our trade routes which would be bad)

I would move the curragh towards Delhi anyway, to cover our dromons so they can shell Delhi. Our curragh is veteran, so it is also on top of a stack with vet dromons.

Persia has 2gpt avail if we wish to gift Theology. May be worthwhile if we want any alliances eg against Hittites or Monguls. Actually they will give us 2gpt for rop!

rop might be okay, I think we want long-time good relationship with x-man, right?
He will also give something for Gems, right?
Would it make sense to give him edu to let him build universities - rather to use his shields then to push his research ability
I barely remember Xerxes and Gandhi know each other - do we want to ally Xerxes also, just in case?

Scandinavia will offer 3gpt + 4g for mono, perhaps next turn when our French alliance runs out?

Don't tie lump sum to an alliance that will probably be cut!

Korea will give 16g for mono (it will get free techs eventually anyway)

free techs? Anyway?

Russia will give 3gpt +3g for Theology
Arabs will give 18g for currency
Babs will give 6g for rop

Thats 8gpt + 47g avail if we are willing to give up theol monopoly, or 5gpt if not

That's way to little for a tech monopoly imo. Rigth now we are not running out of cash... And 34g of those are available for Curr & Mono. So it was like 3gpt + 13g for Theo

Sorry, to inform you late, but I need a skip or swap as I will have to work late the whole week and I will not have the necessary concentration in the evening to play this game as careful as I want. I do not want to spoil the team's progress just to play a set through being much less concentrated than I should be. Sorry again.

Sorry to read that. Tell us when you are available again. We can see then, whether you can sneak in then or missed a whole cycle.
So it's Wacken's job to clean up the mess I left and show how to how to execute his great plans (no irony!)
Unless he also asks to be skipped...

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Ok, i will play the next set then. Possibly i will play about 12 hours from now.

I am not yet sure if i will do the forest cut for kyoto, but that isn't a big thing. I will just calculate and see what i have to do.

I'll get the gold i can without selling Theo.

I will sail to Delhi with curragh cover. Are we confident 14 units will be enough ?

Are we sure i can make war with India without hurting our rep ?

 

[Andronicus]

I would move the curragh towards Delhi anyway, to cover our dromons so they can shell Delhi. Our curragh is veteran, so it is also on top of a stack with vet dromons.

If dromons move in and out from sea tile they will be safe and not require curragh cover
If Indians slip a galley through and end on the tile blocking Con our trading rep is toast. Is this a risk worth taking whilst fighting a nearby civ?

rop might be okay, I think we want long-time good relationship with x-man, right?

Of course he may just end up being our UN opponent, but we need not worry about that till closer to the time - the race is to get UN built.

Would it make sense to give him edu to let him build universities - rather to use his shields then to push his research ability

I say yes, but we dont want to give him astronomy until we have Copernicus safely built

I barely remember Xerxes and Gandhi know each other - do we want to ally Xerxes also, just in case?

May be safe thing to do as if Gandi suddenly researches Guns he may be able to bribe X man (is Gandi more likely to be researching chiv since that contains his UU?)

Don't tie lump sum to an alliance that will probably be cut!

Correct. My original suggestion was the money and gpt for mono, tying in the gpt with renewing alliance was an after thought. You are correct to point out the danger.

free techs? Anyway?

At end of age I assume we gift all techs to scientific AIs - so why not get a little something for them along the way. Exceptions include techs we plan building wonders with and when we dont wish to improve a civ's military capability. Gifting mono to Korea for 16g costs us nothing since it is no longer a monopoly.

That's way to little for a tech monopoly imo. Rigth now we are not running out of cash... And 34g of those are available for Curr & Mono. So it was like 3gpt + 13g for Theo

Yes we can get cash for other things, but we will soon have education, , why not keep getting AI gold when we can. As has been pointed out they will research little themselves and wont run away from us, so why not inflate our coffers.
Actually we dont have loads of cash if we are upgrading the warrior and building embassies.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Abegweit]

If Indians slip a galley through and end on the tile blocking Con our trading rep is toast. Is this a risk worth taking whilst fighting a nearby civ?

Surely we control the seas well enough to prevent this from happening. A couple of Dromons sitting in the sea to the north would be able to ping any incoming galleys.

is Gandi more likely to be researching chiv since that contains his UU?

Yes. Chiv is worth about twice as much to the Indians as guns.

 

[Paul#42]

I took a look at the old 750BC save to see whether America and Vikings share an island. They both had offered a slave then (edit: I thought by mistake).
(At least they are on the same island so allying Abe against Ragnar makes some sense (later)).

Spoiler :

Well, it's just two slaves but I think we should watch this. I can't believe nobody saw this. Actually in that situation that couple was worth an MDI plus some beakers...

edit: Looking at my 670BC-save I was shocked - 6 slaves, 3 of them available for AT-techs. :suicide:

May I replay that set?

edit2: I guess crucial are those moments we got a foothold on a new continent. CA2 and Mapstat won't update on the changed trade opportunities and we (I at least) won't cruise through all updated contacts. A turn later the offer was gone and so both Utilities did never report it.

edit3: Relax, I mixed up SELL and BUY

But the lesson stays the same:

lesson learned: If we get a foothold on a new continent, check all local civs for workers.

(feeling slightly better again )

 

[Paul#42]

Are we sure i can make war with India without hurting our rep ?

I looked up this:

Turn 5
Spices and 19 gold for ivory from India. G man has 80 gold, I hope it stays there.

If it was sealed like that, we got the lump sum for gpt (the Ivory). We'd trash our gpt-rep if we dow!
Good thing you asked again.

We should keep peace for another 5 turns

Maybe that changes our opinion and we should go after France first instead?

 

[Abegweit]

The timing is just about perfect. That is right about when we were planning to declare war anyway. Good thing you checked, though. We don't want to go to war until the deal expires.

BTW, we'd still trash our rep even if the deal was straight spices for ivory. The relevant part is that we are giving them a per-turn good. Makes no difference what it was traded for.

 

[Paul#42]

The timing is just about perfect. That is right about when we were planning to declare war anyway. Good thing you checked, though. We don't want to go to war until the deal expires.

Oh I had thought we wanted to dow right now - now I remember Wacken had planned the attack for turn 100 (actually he wanted to start it )

BTW, we'd still trash our rep even if the deal was straight spices for ivory. The relevant part is that we are giving them a per-turn good. Makes no difference what it was traded for.

I keep having Grille in mind and keep forgetting microbe's reply

I keep breaking deals like that and always wonder where I trashed my rep...

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Indeed, i had hoped to get some interesting turns again, but Mark ruined that

 

[Paul#42]

Maybe some "pings" on Delhi convince you to ride the attack already on turn #9 of your set

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Turn3
Orleans is recaptured by the French. This causes us to lose our supply of wool and we have a riot in constantinopel.

Time for a break now.

 

[Abegweit]

That'll teach you to wish for interesting turns!

 

[msch]

a question from a lurker:
it was captured from Vikings not from you, right?

 

[Abegweit]

Vikings owned it when he started his turns. I assume so.

 

[Paul#42]

Apart from the riot, I consider this "nice". Easy to take and it should be possible to keep it. Some citizens might be Vikings already. Could the be resistors after we retook it?

How many French units moved in?
Which size is it?
Could we get a look at the save?

We should recapture it immediately and check flip probability to consider to keep or dismiss .