SGOTM 12 - Spooks

[WackenOpenAir]

Ye, i guess no more warrior upgrades.
Greece is paying us gpt now.
I am not planning to properly defend Paris or Egypt. I will make sure our neighbours are our friends with some gifts instead.

I will take everything you guys post into consideration and hopefully find some time to play tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Paul#42]

Who are the next target after Arabs?
Given the 2 most useful cities to us are Sparta and Athens, how about a dow on Iroquis and ally Greece now so that hopefully Iroquios take Greek cities then our army can relieve them of it (perhaps gifting Greece a refuge - maybe Trondheim - in the meantime)

Greece is paying us gpt now.

Yes, but at some point we will have to turn against them - oviously or hidden as Andro suggests - given we still want their fertile towns as science farms...
I like the idea to keep Alex as a small friend and ally him against overwhelming forces. Arab units will already shock his core quite a bit, Iroquois might really have a chance to take one or both greek towns....
It would be nice if Alex would one day remember us as the friend who gave him some nice reservation... He will surely understand that we will rebuild his former towns before we one day hand them back to him

However I'm not sure when and which town we should gift to him... Trondheim might be nice but it will be quite valuable for us for some more time...

I am not planning to properly defend Paris or Egypt. I will make sure our neighbours are our friends with some gifts instead.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Unfortunately i did not have time to play, and i do not expect to have time to play until friday.
If you guys want to wait until friday, i'll play friday. If the next player wants to play from here, that is also fine with me. Sorry for all the delays.

 

[Paul#42]

That's a pity but it seems, the others are also busy in other departments

Abegweit, KC?

Is that current disinterest permanent or or just of a temporary kind?

Is it running in the game or in real life?

 

[WackenOpenAir]

In my case it is that i am now actually working for my money this week
Functioning as a pokerdealer for 4 days.

 

[Paul#42]

I just try to imagine a dutch heavy metall fan in a dinner jacket...

Sounds like a job to enjoy. Have fun.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Hehe, and not only that, it will also be on national television

I am just dealing in the side-event though, so it is not sure if i am gonna be seen on TV.

 

[killercane]

No Im here, just busy a bit. I dont see any harm in waiting til Friday. But if Abe wants to take over (isnt he next?) thats ok by me. So Im Swiss on this one.

 

[Abegweit]

I too am perfectly happy to wait for Friday. There is no rush.

Enjoy the job, Wacken

 

[Paul#42]

Well - it is almost friday so no need to hurry

btw. On Dutch TV (I watch sometimes for Honkball) they took a closer look at side-events today...

Wacken, is it you?!?

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Turn0:
DOW Arabia. I will delay our invasion by a turn because the war with greece is started too late.

Russia, Theology, Chivalry + 16g
Greece, Theology, Ally vs Arabia
Korea, Theology, 36g
Mongols, Currency, 41g

Upgrade 2 horses.
Sell barracks in Trontheim

Turn 1:
First worker into Orleans.
Take 14gpt from greece, destruction of greece will be delayed. We really need cash.
Kill 12 Portugese units at the cost of 2.

Turn 2:
Portugal is interested in peace. I am not.
I kill 2 more portugese units at the cost of 1.

Turn 3:
1 more Portugese unit.
I swich Delhi, Bombay and Osaka to Knights, upkeep is getting too bad, i am gonna produce some more quality instead of quantity.
Units landed on Arabia. Bombing tells me there are 4 spears in Mecca.

Turn 4:
IBT. LB from Lisbon attacks our stack. Our knight wins glorious with just 1 damage.

Luckilly, there are only 2 pikes in Lisbon. We lose 2 MDIs and it's ours.
The other Portugese town is on hills.

Bombardment on mecca fails miserably and does only 2 total damage. We lose 2 MI on Mecca and generate a new Great Leader.
Mecca is size 11 so it does little for our unit upkeep now.
With reinforcements from paris ariving in 3 turns, we will have 10 units here. I think that should be enough to take the rest of Arabia.

Both towns come with a harbor and market, so happiness is not an issue.


Turn 4 part two
I make an army with our leader.
5 Dromons from Arabia move towards Paris/Spain. This leaves 2 dromons and 3 Caravels in the arabia area.
1 will go to trontheim.
Orleans will be connected and makes a worker.
Osaka swiches to marketplace.
Kyoto Market.
Astro to Greece for 3 workers and 12g.
Gems to America and Ivory to Persia just because we like them so much.

Turn 5
Monotheism to carthage for 24g.
Construction to Mongols for 20g.
Kill portugese LB. They dropped it next to Delhi by boat.
Kill 3 Arab intruders with newly formed MI army and AC.
Teno -> Market

Turn 6
Not much.

Turn 7
I see large Arab stacks moving around, i hope they aren't comming for us.
Portugese LB kills a knight in defence

Turn 8
They are comming for us, i gift Mecca to the Iroquois and evacuate to avoid battle with the stacks.

Turn 9
Some moving.
Education to America for 15g.
Monotheism to Mongels for 16g + 1gpt.
Atronomy to Persia for 20g + 3gpt.
Theology to Inca for 2g + worker.
Astronomy to Hammy for 12g.
Astronomy to Ottomans for 20g + 2gpt.
Education to Iroquois for 21g.

Turn 10
We attack Medina again with our army and the Arabs are gone, we didn't fight their units. (Bush would like it to be that easy)
Oporto's 2 defending pikes are destroyed at the cost of 2 MI. We gain a great leader again and now have armies on both islands.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Research is somewhat slower than i hoped for and we don't have a prebuild large enough, so hospitals need to be recalculated.

Workers in Portugal need to be made by forest cuts. This requires quite some micro management.

The capital obviously needs micro managemenet every turn.

Mecca can produce 5 spt when we have it under control again, so it can make 2 turn workers. Edit: correction, that was with GA.

 

[killercane]

Wacken, is it you?!?

Thats the funniest thing Ive seen all day.

 

[Paul#42]

Turn 10
We attack Medina again with our army and the Arabs are gone, we didn't fight their units. (Bush would like it to be that easy)

We gain a great leader again and now have armies on both islands.

(will have a look at the save and post some (hopefully) more sophisticated comment then...)

Thats the funniest thing Ive seen all day.

You just opened your eyes, right?
Of course - you know each other right?

 

[WackenOpenAir]

The GA should end next turn i think.

All our future science farms need a temple or library for border expansion.

They also need an aquaduct and a marketplace. In some cities with enough grassland, a hospital would be great. I think we can asume to find markets and aquaducts in most cities we capture. Pop rushing a hospital and a library would cost us about 10 unhappy faces.
With marketplace, 9 luxes ? should provide 24 happiness. So pop rushing will initially leave enough happyness for 15 working citizens, 16 with a temple.
In towns that have enough grassland for this much population, we should thus only use pop rushing for these improvements, not for workers, units or whatever as that will limit the maximum size of our cities.

If the cities are fully corrupt, the temple would probably be better than a library. If the city has as much as 20% uncorrupted, the library would probably provide more science than 1 extra citizen.

 

[Paul#42]

While we are having cash problems due to unit supply we'd better let our science farms stay towns, right?
On the reverse that means: When we go for max cities after sanitation, we should reduce our army to a payable size.

Some short term things:

• The towns in Portugal & Spain should not grow if we want slaves instead of workers.
• While a slave building town waits for a chop (because the lumberhacks are not in time) it can better produce wealth.
• Bombay could also still build some slaves (80% chance if the citizen is chosen by chance, 100% if last or first).
• Be carefull with calculating the beakers at the end of our GA. Rather lose some beakers then spending a fifth turn on banking...
• We should dow Iroquis soon and ally Greeks. Maybe Carthage also?

We (you, Abe) should spend some time the turn after GA ended to determine appropriate tasks for our workers (where to mine and where to irrigate).
I know you love micromanaging

 

[Abegweit]

I went through the trades. We can get:
5gpt + 9 from Babs for Chemistry
13gpt + 40 from Greeks for Chemistry
4gpt + 19 from Iros for Engineering
My inclination would be to take the deals.

Who's up next for the fun and games? Isabella? Hiawatha?

Scientific civs
Korea will take our money
Persia will
Babylon won't
Russia has nothing to offer (and, of course, wouldn't)
Greece will
Germany has nothing to offer
Ottos will
Sumeria will

It will be easy enough be bring the Babs into war with Cathy so the only issue is Otto. My guess is that he doesn't know her but it's hard to know w/o opening an embassy. No rush here though. He may show up with some money later.

 

[Abegweit]

The GA should end next turn i think.

CAII confirms.

All our future science farms need a temple or library for border expansion.

They also need an aquaduct and a marketplace. In some cities with enough grassland, a hospital would be great. I think we can asume to find markets and aquaducts in most cities we capture. Pop rushing a hospital and a library would cost us about 10 unhappy faces.
With marketplace, 9 luxes ? should provide 24 happiness. So pop rushing will initially leave enough happyness for 15 working citizens, 16 with a temple.
In towns that have enough grassland for this much population, we should thus only use pop rushing for these improvements, not for workers, units or whatever as that will limit the maximum size of our cities.

Whipping a temple costs an additional happy over a library so I would say that it's a wash in this respect and the library is superior in every other way. Even in a fully-corrupt city a lib should produce another beaker.

Courthouses would be good in some cities too. Orleans and Tronheim come to mind. They can be built now while the city is not too corrupt and still be useful later.

 

[Paul#42]

I went through the trades. We can get:
5gpt + 9 from Babs for Chemistry
13gpt + 40 from Greeks for Chemistry
4gpt + 19 from Iros for Engineering
My inclination would be to take the deals.

Who's up next for the fun and games? Isabella? Hiawatha?

I'd dow both now. Isabella on our own and Hiawatha with a little help from our Greek friends. Maybe even Carthage (later?)?
That's why I won't take the gpt from Alex. Under pressure by Iroquois he might get into a position where he can't pay our gpt anymore. IIRC AI might declare war in those situations, right?

Whipping a temple costs an additional happy over a library

Yep. Better libs. We're scientific after all. Although I'm not sure that 2nd beaker is guaranteed...

Courthouses would be good in some cities too. Orleans and Tronheim come to mind. They can be built now while the city is not too corrupt and still be useful later.

I like Andro's idea of gifting Trondheim to Greece while allying them against Cartaghe after they got weakened by the Iroquois. Or is that plan to complicated? That way we would get greek towns without fighting them.
In that case we should not build any more improvements in Trondheim.

However I really like Trondheim (closest town to my place in this game...) and I'm still surprised how productive it is for us...

 

[Abegweit]

I'd dow both now. Isabella on our own and Hiawatha with a little help from our Greek friends. Maybe even Carthage (later?)?

Well. We need to wait one turn for Hiawatha (deal about to expire).

That's why I won't take the gpt from Alex. Under pressure by Iroquois he might get into a position where he can't pay our gpt anymore. IIRC AI might declare war in those situations, right?

Get the money while you can. We could trade for luxes which would make him less likely to want to back out.

Yep. Better libs. We're scientific after all. Although I'm not sure that 2nd beaker is guaranteed...

Any city making ten commerce (maybe less, I'm not sure of the exact line) will generate two beakers outright and the lib will add a third. If it's making less than that it is probably best kept small for unit support. In this case, it doesn't need border expansion.

I like Andro's idea of gifting Trondheim to Greece while allying them against Cartaghe after they got weakened by the Iroquois. Or is that plan to complicated? That way we would get greek towns without fighting them.
In that case we should not build any more improvements in Trondheim.

However I really like Trondheim (closest town to my place in this game...) and I'm still surprised how productive it is for us...

I musta missed Andro's post. I really don't see the point in giving up a productive city, though. Courthouses reduce max corruption to 80%. The time to build them is when we actually have some productive capacity in the cities.


I would like to play my turns tomorrow afternoon Eastern Time. Can we come to a consensus on what is to be done by then? Take out Isa and Hia. K. My thought is to gift all the scientifics except Cathy into the next age and get their techs by whatever means possible. Agreed on that?