SGOTM 12 - Team Zoe
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
How big do news get ??
We are alone !
Spotted green borders during the first turns, to the east. First curragh went CW across the shore and met both with big trades to the polite japs and what remained from the aztecs. We are no longerup BW on the aztecs of now, they must have been researching it in the first place as they didn't give us anything for it, and nothing further was available for trades anyways.
This means scratch the spears away from the spreadsheet, make more curraghs, prepare a wonder build. This is going to be good.
I'll edit my prev post with a new spreadsheet later.
We are alone !
Spotted green borders during the first turns, to the east. First curragh went CW across the shore and met both with big trades to the polite japs and what remained from the aztecs. We are no longerup BW on the aztecs of now, they must have been researching it in the first place as they didn't give us anything for it, and nothing further was available for trades anyways.
This means scratch the spears away from the spreadsheet, make more curraghs, prepare a wonder build. This is going to be good.
I'll edit my prev post with a new spreadsheet later.
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Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
I saw no reason to make anything else so I kept the curragh production going. It has been worth it so far, all 3 early curragh made contacts of their own. There are openings in the map layout for each of them, too.
Size 6 cannot be gone through in 2 turns misfortunately. The plain irrigation will come in 1 turn late. I have skipped roading the grass cow so that the worker would finish the other plain's irrigaion in time for size 7 to go at 10 fpt. The extra coin can be roaded later on.
Not many opportunities have arisen for trade. I got masonry from the mayans for the wheel and a handful of gold, while the incans had the wheel already, so I considered it a good deal.
Right now I say our best bet is to go grab the inca's 9 gold for alphabet - they'll end up trading it for the wheel away to spain or rome when their curraghs get there most likely. Or to some other unknown AI`'s in the fog anyways.
Roster:
Beorn - Playball
ThERat - UP
Smart - On Deck
Sanabas
Zerksees
Bucephalus
Whomp
The Save
We need to talk about what to build next though. We are still at 7-8 spt so curraghs are good options, but do we want 1, 2, 3, or no more?
Size 6 cannot be gone through in 2 turns misfortunately. The plain irrigation will come in 1 turn late. I have skipped roading the grass cow so that the worker would finish the other plain's irrigaion in time for size 7 to go at 10 fpt. The extra coin can be roaded later on.
Not many opportunities have arisen for trade. I got masonry from the mayans for the wheel and a handful of gold, while the incans had the wheel already, so I considered it a good deal.
Right now I say our best bet is to go grab the inca's 9 gold for alphabet - they'll end up trading it for the wheel away to spain or rome when their curraghs get there most likely. Or to some other unknown AI`'s in the fog anyways.
Roster:
Beorn - Playball
ThERat - UP
Smart - On Deck
Sanabas
Zerksees
Bucephalus
Whomp
The Save
We need to talk about what to build next though. We are still at 7-8 spt so curraghs are good options, but do we want 1, 2, 3, or no more?
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Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Will the AI civs build Curraghs? They seldom do any other time.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
I have seen several curraghs from Portugal, Rome and India, one from Spain, and I bet there's more where those came from - especially for the SEA and COM civs that had that option from scratch.
On a forgotten side note: we are sitting on horses. Aztecs have sources of ivory.
On a forgotten side note: we are sitting on horses. Aztecs have sources of ivory.
ThERat
Deity
ok got it, will play tomorrow late afternoon as I need to work (my students have my exam 
) Which wonder are we aiming for? SoZ?
) Which wonder are we aiming for? SoZ?
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
SoZ, MoM, TGL in that order I would say.
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
Do the dromons use differential movement in this game?
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Yes, 3 cost for coast, 2 cost for sea, 1 for ocean; dromons will have 7 move points.
zerksees
in remission
Looks good Beorn-el-Feared
Wonders?
How many archers do we need to take Teotihuacan or any other nearby city for that matter? And how long til we get map making?
Wonders?
How many archers do we need to take Teotihuacan or any other nearby city for that matter? And how long til we get map making?
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
I've never played a game that used it, but most of the SGOTMs use differential movement for boats. There was a very nice explanation in one of the SGOTMXI threads (if I can just locate it.
) if someone else doesn't come up with a short answer soon. 
It has to do with the number of movement points used up in the type of water tile...I believe coast tiles use 3 points per tile, sea 2 points and ocean 1...meaning you can move farther in the ocean than you can along the coast.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
If we set research up on MM as soon as we get writing, it shouldn't take that long to get it. If we're going to pull a rush however, we have horses so I'd put scientists on HBR if we don't get it by then. There's also the chance we have iron on these hills somewhere, and on archi, swords are much more powerful as most of the movement can be done by boat. It makes a big mish mash in my head as to what we should be researching next.
Given that, we can't be actually sure the aztecs are the only other ivory owners out there. I'd like for us to try our shot at it. After that however, phony war vs the aztecs, alliance with japan, crank out military and take over the island over there is a good plan for me
I'd make a few more curraghs too.
@Buce: It's like when a cavalry moves into a forest and loses 2 movement points rather than just one. Sea tiles will cost 2 moves and shore tiles 3. This means that with curraghs having 5 movement points, you can move 5 tiles in the ocean, but only 2 tiles on the shore. You can work around this by jumping into sea, moving from there to another sea tile and back to coast for a total 3 moves. Basically, it makes early contacts a bit more difficult by boat and later game naval invasions much friendlier through the oceans.
Given that, we can't be actually sure the aztecs are the only other ivory owners out there. I'd like for us to try our shot at it. After that however, phony war vs the aztecs, alliance with japan, crank out military and take over the island over there is a good plan for me
I'd make a few more curraghs too.
@Buce: It's like when a cavalry moves into a forest and loses 2 movement points rather than just one. Sea tiles will cost 2 moves and shore tiles 3. This means that with curraghs having 5 movement points, you can move 5 tiles in the ocean, but only 2 tiles on the shore. You can work around this by jumping into sea, moving from there to another sea tile and back to coast for a total 3 moves. Basically, it makes early contacts a bit more difficult by boat and later game naval invasions much friendlier through the oceans.
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
@Buce: Here is a link to the original implementation discussion of differential movement, and this link is still referred to in current game maintenance threads. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=56886 .
The discussion I was thinking of earlier was very early in Shaka, not Stirred's SGOTMXI and involved what would be possible with the GreatLight. It might be worth a peek. It begins approx in their post #16 and continues on and off for a few posts. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=185244
The discussion I was thinking of earlier was very early in Shaka, not Stirred's SGOTMXI and involved what would be possible with the GreatLight. It might be worth a peek. It begins approx in their post #16 and continues on and off for a few posts. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=185244
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Thanks BEF & gmaharriet. It makes sense now.
Nice start B and great discussion everyone.
Some questions from the Panda.
Are we going for SOZ? How soon would a prebuild need to start?
Colonies for the grapes and incense or do we wait to find some slaves or border expansion?
Are we going for the win in this game or play it honorably? I know how ThERat and I feel about exploiting the AI but I think it's a discussion we have to have. I can see some easy exploits the other teams will use with buying techs.
Feudalism and fighting. Short rushing could be a very powerful technique in this game but warring is a nightmare when you combine pop rushing and fighting. Any thoughts on this?
Some questions from the Panda.
Are we going for SOZ? How soon would a prebuild need to start?
Colonies for the grapes and incense or do we wait to find some slaves or border expansion?
Are we going for the win in this game or play it honorably? I know how ThERat and I feel about exploiting the AI but I think it's a discussion we have to have. I can see some easy exploits the other teams will use with buying techs.
Feudalism and fighting. Short rushing could be a very powerful technique in this game but warring is a nightmare when you combine pop rushing and fighting. Any thoughts on this?
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Could you elaborate, Whomp?
eldar
ChiefTank
lurker's comment: Interesting set up, don't forget some form of defenders (Feud gets MPs, doesn't it?), the AI may suck at naval invasions but they'll still land units.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
I'm all for playing it by the book. I don't think we could play for the win with how stacked team klarius is anyways 
We are entitled 3 MP's, but I'm patient enough to use our invasion forces for that, when they come up. We could build 3 chariots with intentions on upgrading them to horses if happy juice is an issue.
The incense is still a long way from reach, wines are at least 100 turns away, so roading it is not a priority. I'd wait for slaves to build colonies, we have 2 jungle tiles to clear in the mean time so we will keep the workers busy.
Last, so long as MM is not out, we have no means of going over. It will take a few further turns before we can get an actually good amount of transports for a landing, so I do think we have the time to build SoZ - but giving math to the aztecs and crossing our fingers that they build it for us is a gamble I'd be willing to take.
The one I'm more reluctant about is wether or not we have a bipoly (no, that definitely can't be a word) on ivory. Once we have the whole island scouted we can get a beter idea on that.
I'd like to raise a point about ocean crossing: it is customary to take chances with curraghs trying to cross the ocean for contacts, however here the map looks very very shore connected, so I'd argue against sending suicide curraghs out. We will get all the contacts soon, and I don't think losing a curragh is worth trying to get any one contact a turn early.
We are entitled 3 MP's, but I'm patient enough to use our invasion forces for that, when they come up. We could build 3 chariots with intentions on upgrading them to horses if happy juice is an issue.
The incense is still a long way from reach, wines are at least 100 turns away, so roading it is not a priority. I'd wait for slaves to build colonies, we have 2 jungle tiles to clear in the mean time so we will keep the workers busy.
Last, so long as MM is not out, we have no means of going over. It will take a few further turns before we can get an actually good amount of transports for a landing, so I do think we have the time to build SoZ - but giving math to the aztecs and crossing our fingers that they build it for us is a gamble I'd be willing to take.
The one I'm more reluctant about is wether or not we have a bipoly (no, that definitely can't be a word) on ivory. Once we have the whole island scouted we can get a beter idea on that.
I'd like to raise a point about ocean crossing: it is customary to take chances with curraghs trying to cross the ocean for contacts, however here the map looks very very shore connected, so I'd argue against sending suicide curraghs out. We will get all the contacts soon, and I don't think losing a curragh is worth trying to get any one contact a turn early.
I'm not a fan of exploits, especially stuff like ROP rape. I don't mind pinching workers with warrior landings though.
I'd definitely go philo as our next research. We either get it first and pick up something nice, or we get it close to first and still have plenty of trade value.
Colonies for the luxes, if we're at size 6 now it might be worth cranking out 2 more workers before we get bigger, to finish improvements and then colonise.
I'm not a fan of a pseudo war with the aztecs. It will likely be expensive to get out of, even if we have pinched a couple of workers, and they are way too close. As soon as they have maps they'll be over to see us. Much prefer to pinch our workers/have pseudo wars with slightly more distant neighbours. We should only declare on the Aztecs when we're going to have a proper war. And they look like the target for our first proper war too.
We definitely should go for SoZ. Not sure about prebuilds, we don't have that much to prebuild with. Colossus will be built fairly early, we can probably go with Pyramids, timed to reach 200 about the time we get philosophy, which will hopefully give us a maths freebie or a trade for maths, and worst case gives us MoM.
I'd definitely go philo as our next research. We either get it first and pick up something nice, or we get it close to first and still have plenty of trade value.
Colonies for the luxes, if we're at size 6 now it might be worth cranking out 2 more workers before we get bigger, to finish improvements and then colonise.
I'm not a fan of a pseudo war with the aztecs. It will likely be expensive to get out of, even if we have pinched a couple of workers, and they are way too close. As soon as they have maps they'll be over to see us. Much prefer to pinch our workers/have pseudo wars with slightly more distant neighbours. We should only declare on the Aztecs when we're going to have a proper war. And they look like the target for our first proper war too.
We definitely should go for SoZ. Not sure about prebuilds, we don't have that much to prebuild with. Colossus will be built fairly early, we can probably go with Pyramids, timed to reach 200 about the time we get philosophy, which will hopefully give us a maths freebie or a trade for maths, and worst case gives us MoM.
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