eldar
ChiefTank
lurker's comment: D'oh. So I see. I was going by the CRpSuite pic, which still shows the French as having PP 
SGOTM 12 - Team Zoe
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
zerksees
in remission
Great work there Whomp.
Arabs seems like a safe trade - they have a lot of cities. America with the French right by them - not sure that is safe. Once our per turn deals are over, we can join France vs. America and buy from France later.
BTW France was not even at 5000 and only making 60 cpt in their capital so it will be over before they become a 20k threat. I think Whomp's numbers are for all France. Look at the pic I put up earlier of their capital.
Landmass – inhabitants
#1 – Byz – The Zoo
#2 – Byz (former Aztec)
#3 – Byz (former Indian), Portugal, Korea
#4 – Byz (former Egypt), Persia, Dutch, Babs
#5 – Rome
#6 – Celts
#7 – France, American
#8 – Byz (former Carthage), Arab, Greek, Russian
#9 – Zulu, German
#10 – Ottoman
#11 – Sumeria, England
Dead: Aztec, Japan, India, Maya, Inca, Egypt, Hittite, China, Iro, Mongols, Carthage, Vikings, Spain
Arabs seems like a safe trade - they have a lot of cities. America with the French right by them - not sure that is safe. Once our per turn deals are over, we can join France vs. America and buy from France later.
BTW France was not even at 5000 and only making 60 cpt in their capital so it will be over before they become a 20k threat. I think Whomp's numbers are for all France. Look at the pic I put up earlier of their capital.
Landmass – inhabitants
#1 – Byz – The Zoo
#2 – Byz (former Aztec)
#3 – Byz (former Indian), Portugal, Korea
#4 – Byz (former Egypt), Persia, Dutch, Babs
#5 – Rome
#6 – Celts
#7 – France, American
#8 – Byz (former Carthage), Arab, Greek, Russian
#9 – Zulu, German
#10 – Ottoman
#11 – Sumeria, England
Dead: Aztec, Japan, India, Maya, Inca, Egypt, Hittite, China, Iro, Mongols, Carthage, Vikings, Spain
ThERat
Deity
fantastic turnset !!! 
only thing I would have done very a little more care is to trade physics so early. I hope they won't go for ToG and snatch Newton from us.
If it is true what you said, then we have to take Paris because they would have over 20000 culture before 100 turns and I don't think we will finish that fast.
Start the prebuild immediately, Newton is only 400shields. so our capital should be able to make that in less than 20 turns.
I would try and get a boat or 2 on the side of Oporto so we can ship units over to take Spain, which is Portugese right now.
Whom are we going to take on after that? Are we going for England and Zulu?
Once we snatched Newton, I would try and get France to fight Celts. We need to weaken them if we are going to take Paris
only thing I would have done very a little more care is to trade physics so early. I hope they won't go for ToG and snatch Newton from us.
If it is true what you said, then we have to take Paris because they would have over 20000 culture before 100 turns and I don't think we will finish that fast.
Start the prebuild immediately, Newton is only 400shields. so our capital should be able to make that in less than 20 turns.
I would try and get a boat or 2 on the side of Oporto so we can ship units over to take Spain, which is Portugese right now.
Whom are we going to take on after that? Are we going for England and Zulu?
Once we snatched Newton, I would try and get France to fight Celts. We need to weaken them if we are going to take Paris
We have a deal working with America so we can't MA versus them. Both routes seem safe. The question is if we're receiving lux I don't think it hurts our rep if the trade route is broken. Correct?
The capital can probably switch now and get the prebuild started. We should get the heroic epic message this turn.
The capital can probably switch now and get the prebuild started. We should get the heroic epic message this turn.
ThERat
Deity
The Roster
Beorn -- up
ThERat--
Smart --
Zerksees-- took out Mongols and Carthago
Bucephalus -- skipped for the time being
Whomp-- got us FP and an army and took Lisbon
Sanabas -- Give us a wavey when you can be re-inserted
Beorn -- up
ThERat--
Smart --
Zerksees-- took out Mongols and Carthago
Bucephalus -- skipped for the time being
Whomp-- got us FP and an army and took Lisbon
Sanabas -- Give us a wavey when you can be re-inserted
ThERat
Deity
I checked the save, we can swap The Zoo to a cathedral and work a max of 28spt if we borrow the cow from Rat Hole.
We have already 47 shields there, thus 47 + 13*28 = 411, so we can get it 6 turns after we got physics
@whomp, it's correct that we do not receive a rep hit, if we have a lux trade on their side and it gets broken
We have already 47 shields there, thus 47 + 13*28 = 411, so we can get it 6 turns after we got physics
@whomp, it's correct that we do not receive a rep hit, if we have a lux trade on their side and it gets broken
zerksees
in remission
The conquest part of me says finish portugal, then make Korea a one city challenge, then go get the tech backwards Celts then Rome.
Then ride it out to the end - no additional wars needed.
If we have military laying around after that we could whack England - but not necessary. We could also make Russia and Greece one city challenges by taking one city from each and gifting it to Arabs. Same with Babs - take a city and gift to Persia. Or make them science farms.
Then ride it out to the end - no additional wars needed.
If we have military laying around after that we could whack England - but not necessary. We could also make Russia and Greece one city challenges by taking one city from each and gifting it to Arabs. Same with Babs - take a city and gift to Persia. Or make them science farms.
OK then I'd do the deal for luxs with the Arabs and Americans and give them the science contacts. We may get some WLTQ in most of our cities. We should also give scientific contacts all the other contacts.
We should finish the Ports. Getting the boats over will take time though so a ROP with Korea would make more sense. We'll be using the Koreans within the next twenty turns for our IA techs anyhow.
If the Dutch or Zulus are still around we should make sure they're done. I would keep knocking down civs as we head to the IA since it will only help our science rate.
We should finish the Ports. Getting the boats over will take time though so a ROP with Korea would make more sense. We'll be using the Koreans within the next twenty turns for our IA techs anyhow.
If the Dutch or Zulus are still around we should make sure they're done. I would keep knocking down civs as we head to the IA since it will only help our science rate.
ThERat
Deity
have to correct myself here...
assuming we get ToG in 7, we can have max of 200 shields for HE before that,
so the correct way would be
current shields 47 + 6* 25 = 197, then on the turn we get ToG, swap HE to Newton via big picture,
then we can swap to 28spt: 222 + 7 * 26 = 404
Thus, it will take 7 turns after ToG to get that, by then we most likely have magnetism..so it would help us for the IA for sure
unfortunately that notion is wrong IIRC. The number of Civs only determines the beakers for unknown techs...
Good stuff on the maths.
I was thinking more in terms of science farms for us or more space for the others.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Well we do have to take portugal out so I'll check the tech costs around and confirm it either way, regarding the tech cost getting axed.
I'm all for gaining control of our Gamma continent short of Seoul. Rome would be my 2nd pick since they're so close, but Celts must go next. Would France be a fish that's too big to fry? There's no harm in kicking their butt if there's any remote chance of them going 20k.
I'll go over the turnset and thread again and play this tomorrow, I mostly skimmed through since Whomp's set.
I'm all for gaining control of our Gamma continent short of Seoul. Rome would be my 2nd pick since they're so close, but Celts must go next. Would France be a fish that's too big to fry? There's no harm in kicking their butt if there's any remote chance of them going 20k.
I'll go over the turnset and thread again and play this tomorrow, I mostly skimmed through since Whomp's set.
zerksees
in remission
Beorn it looks like the Celts are far away - they still need masonry?! Might not be too bad if we can go on ocean tile.
take a close look at France again. I really don't think they are a 20k threat in Paris.
Facts: 290 AD Paris at 4207 culture and 60 cpt
440 AD Paris at 5109 culture. So 15 turns nets 902 culture. that is 60 cpt almost exactly.
Even if they flop over to 75 cpt next turn they'll need almost 200 turns to get there.
However where is the other 100 cpt coming from? Could it be that Orleans has over 2000 culture and gaining close to 100 cpt. We need to get their map and spend a few gold to investigate both of their cities again to put this silly rumor to rest.
For now I think ROP with Korea is the best way to finish the Portugese. If you are going with ROP do it immediately so we can get out of it sooner rather than later. There is a good chance that Korea will take those former Spanish cities - how many more units will the Portugese get to produce with two size 1 cities? Then again maybe one or two shiploads of knights or AC will do it.
take a close look at France again. I really don't think they are a 20k threat in Paris.
Facts: 290 AD Paris at 4207 culture and 60 cpt
440 AD Paris at 5109 culture. So 15 turns nets 902 culture. that is 60 cpt almost exactly.
Even if they flop over to 75 cpt next turn they'll need almost 200 turns to get there.
However where is the other 100 cpt coming from? Could it be that Orleans has over 2000 culture and gaining close to 100 cpt. We need to get their map and spend a few gold to investigate both of their cities again to put this silly rumor to rest.
For now I think ROP with Korea is the best way to finish the Portugese. If you are going with ROP do it immediately so we can get out of it sooner rather than later. There is a good chance that Korea will take those former Spanish cities - how many more units will the Portugese get to produce with two size 1 cities? Then again maybe one or two shiploads of knights or AC will do it.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Good point on Korea ROP, will do. However, wasn't 200 turns around our timeframe? I wouldn't let a loose end such as this go wild when the new age strikes and we can bribe their continent against them - plus ourselves, once we're done with Portugal.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Pre-Turn:
We've been RoP'd with Korea since halfway through Whomp's set, let it roll.
MM for gold, realize that even then I'm 50 beakers short of 6-turns reasearch, give a few shields back here and there.
Sell barrack in Tiwanaku, this city will get a few irrigations and be a worker pump/scientist farm.
Rename a few, notably Foot Print for our FP city.
Pull eAC from babysitting the turks to the front and demoted a 1HP vAC to house sitting.
Lux deals:
3 luxes to France for 1 lux and 6gpt + ROP (ROP gave us one more gpt and will allow to go scout their #2 city)
America has no GPT but they are bought by Engineering alone for silk +16g
Arabs have 23gpt and I shovel all our luxes + physics to them, hoping they can help the research quest.
Physics:
Sell physics to Persia, Babylon and Russia, netting another 10gpt plus crumbs.
We now make positive gpt again.
I won't send more to anyone (esp. sci civs) since we need bargaining chips for the new age shopping spree.
Korea and Dutch have workers for sale - we expect the dutch to fold to Persia quickly, but Korea backing from Portugal ? We might have a shot there at capturing either korean city from Portuguese hands
IT
Zulu beg for their lives ... errr peace - no deal, not going to break MA with Germany.
T0.
Quiet
IT
Persia backstabs us, taking Rabid Corvette (former Utica)
T1.
The Corvette is back but we have lost the harbor in it
Take 1 casualty at Oporto.
One AC retreats from the portuguese blockade of the strait to Korea but we kill him at the next shot.
Lose an elite MDI to a fortified barb on a forest N of Lisbon
Call in the bikini babe, pitting the gems against the persian pikes at the Memphis chokepoint.
IT
Persia has boats between Thebes and Kyoto.
T2.
Prepare reinforcements, dispatch boats to carry fresh troops from the Beta continent to Egypt - 2 more on site now, total 3 AC 1 knight 1 pike.
The Zoo MM'd for the 1-shield short of 200 plan.
Whip a MDI in Memphis - renamed Lion Trainer
IT
Count at least 8 persian attackers in the neighborhood
The eldar defeats the attacks of 2 persian caravels, grows elite 2/5
T3.
Persian pre-emtives go 5-0 but they have 2 pikes on a hill still.
IT
Persia swallowed the bikini whole and upon closing the way, their stack finds another target.
Amsterdam is still Dutch, Nineveh still Babylonian
T4.
Korea got pîllaged pretty bad by Portugal, Henry must have had quite a spear force.
A bit of MM, one easy fight against Persia.
Hold the save here.
We have 4 knights, 2 AC, 2 MDI, 1 pike in Egypt. Persia vastly outnumbers us but the crisis is over and we made no compromise. We now need to decide wether to enforce our presence in Persia with more troops, trebs and everything or keep it minimal and start focusing on other objectives.
The danger of leaving it minimal is that so long as they know we can't fight back, they'll ram through us. We can't really afford to lose the gems, so capitulating is not an option. He will not offer peace quickly unless we start punching him, but I am not too fond of that option either.
I've changed the builds on our beta to MDI's so that we can inflate our numbers faster. Knights are still coming out of our other fine establishments.
I thought it would be best to reconsider the situation now that it includes a big war poster with Persia in the middle of it.
Save on the server.
We've been RoP'd with Korea since halfway through Whomp's set, let it roll.
MM for gold, realize that even then I'm 50 beakers short of 6-turns reasearch, give a few shields back here and there.
Sell barrack in Tiwanaku, this city will get a few irrigations and be a worker pump/scientist farm.
Rename a few, notably Foot Print for our FP city.
Pull eAC from babysitting the turks to the front and demoted a 1HP vAC to house sitting.
Lux deals:
3 luxes to France for 1 lux and 6gpt + ROP (ROP gave us one more gpt and will allow to go scout their #2 city)
America has no GPT but they are bought by Engineering alone for silk +16g
Arabs have 23gpt and I shovel all our luxes + physics to them, hoping they can help the research quest.
Physics:
Sell physics to Persia, Babylon and Russia, netting another 10gpt plus crumbs.
We now make positive gpt again.
I won't send more to anyone (esp. sci civs) since we need bargaining chips for the new age shopping spree.
Korea and Dutch have workers for sale - we expect the dutch to fold to Persia quickly, but Korea backing from Portugal ? We might have a shot there at capturing either korean city from Portuguese hands
IT
Zulu beg for their lives ... errr peace - no deal, not going to break MA with Germany.
T0.
Quiet
IT
Persia backstabs us, taking Rabid Corvette (former Utica)
T1.
The Corvette is back but we have lost the harbor in it
Take 1 casualty at Oporto.
One AC retreats from the portuguese blockade of the strait to Korea but we kill him at the next shot.
Lose an elite MDI to a fortified barb on a forest N of Lisbon
Call in the bikini babe, pitting the gems against the persian pikes at the Memphis chokepoint.
IT
Persia has boats between Thebes and Kyoto.
T2.
Prepare reinforcements, dispatch boats to carry fresh troops from the Beta continent to Egypt - 2 more on site now, total 3 AC 1 knight 1 pike.
The Zoo MM'd for the 1-shield short of 200 plan.
Whip a MDI in Memphis - renamed Lion Trainer
IT
Count at least 8 persian attackers in the neighborhood
The eldar defeats the attacks of 2 persian caravels, grows elite 2/5
T3.
Persian pre-emtives go 5-0 but they have 2 pikes on a hill still.
IT
Persia swallowed the bikini whole and upon closing the way, their stack finds another target.
Amsterdam is still Dutch, Nineveh still Babylonian
T4.
Korea got pîllaged pretty bad by Portugal, Henry must have had quite a spear force.
A bit of MM, one easy fight against Persia.
Hold the save here.
We have 4 knights, 2 AC, 2 MDI, 1 pike in Egypt. Persia vastly outnumbers us but the crisis is over and we made no compromise. We now need to decide wether to enforce our presence in Persia with more troops, trebs and everything or keep it minimal and start focusing on other objectives.
The danger of leaving it minimal is that so long as they know we can't fight back, they'll ram through us. We can't really afford to lose the gems, so capitulating is not an option. He will not offer peace quickly unless we start punching him, but I am not too fond of that option either.
I've changed the builds on our beta to MDI's so that we can inflate our numbers faster. Knights are still coming out of our other fine establishments.
I thought it would be best to reconsider the situation now that it includes a big war poster with Persia in the middle of it.
Save on the server.
Attachments
zerksees
in remission
We could get some fairly nice territory from Xerxes. Its not that far away to reinforce. I say make him a one city challenge, the inconsiderate ungrateful good-for-nothing *@%$!.
Really, having a presence there is going to be tough. This is not the last time he is going to come after us. Once we kill enough of his units he will make peace. So I guess we need to increase our military there.
Really, having a presence there is going to be tough. This is not the last time he is going to come after us. Once we kill enough of his units he will make peace. So I guess we need to increase our military there.
Eek. That was not cool. Did we lose our trade routes by delivering luxs?
I noticed the HE was due in 2. Will we be able to switch to Newts? I'm inclined to defend those gems because they are mighty on strong commerce.
I noticed the HE was due in 2. Will we be able to switch to Newts? I'm inclined to defend those gems because they are mighty on strong commerce.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
We are getting our tech in 2 turns and the Zoo will overrun to 227 shields + 28 spt on that one turn to a big picture switch for Newton's. Everything is on the clock there.
No trade routes were harmed, everything can go through Babylon. If Babylon allies against us before we get Magnetism, we still have a sneaky route going between Germany and Sumeria that should keep our deals alive.
I don't plan on capitulating Egypt, I would not have whipped a mace if I was going to. I like Zerksees' idea of OCC'ing his namesake in a shady corner of Mongolia while we drink his wines. We could seriously use a pull of France and Babylon if we are going to try this one though. We can then bring MDI reinforcements from Beta while Gamma runs on self-replenishment. That's what I'd do. It might take more than a turnset just to get results from this though.
Another thing I was wondering: what about gifting iron, horses, salt to Germany/Sumeria along with military techs? This would be a great bargain chip for the new age big picture and it would help them conquer their islands.
No trade routes were harmed, everything can go through Babylon. If Babylon allies against us before we get Magnetism, we still have a sneaky route going between Germany and Sumeria that should keep our deals alive.
I don't plan on capitulating Egypt, I would not have whipped a mace if I was going to. I like Zerksees' idea of OCC'ing his namesake in a shady corner of Mongolia while we drink his wines. We could seriously use a pull of France and Babylon if we are going to try this one though. We can then bring MDI reinforcements from Beta while Gamma runs on self-replenishment. That's what I'd do. It might take more than a turnset just to get results from this though.
Another thing I was wondering: what about gifting iron, horses, salt to Germany/Sumeria along with military techs? This would be a great bargain chip for the new age big picture and it would help them conquer their islands.
I think those lands should be ours since we can't stop the war with them until we hammer them. I'm a little disappointed they pulled what they did and was hoping for peaceful relations through the endgame. Their loss.
I think we most definitely want our allies to have fully stocked armaments.
I think we most definitely want our allies to have fully stocked armaments.
ThERat
Deity
are we sure we want to waste our resources (shield = military) now on Persia? I guess since this is the first war, that they would go for peace fairly soon.
If we decide to battle this on, we need to ally Babylon and maybe France. However, this would drag on for a while and we need to make sure to be in peace with everyone when we enter the IA.
How many turns are we from that? 2 turns from ToG + 6-7 turns for magnetism + 6-7 turns metal (unless France researches that for us). That's a max of 16 turns and if we have an alliance, we got an issue here.
I prefer to go fight defensive and go for peace as soon as possible. I rather we take former Spain + 1 Korean city.
Btw, I can't check the save, did we take the Portugese city next to Lisbon? The report is a little too crypted for the simple me...
If we decide to battle this on, we need to ally Babylon and maybe France. However, this would drag on for a while and we need to make sure to be in peace with everyone when we enter the IA.
How many turns are we from that? 2 turns from ToG + 6-7 turns for magnetism + 6-7 turns metal (unless France researches that for us). That's a max of 16 turns and if we have an alliance, we got an issue here.
I prefer to go fight defensive and go for peace as soon as possible. I rather we take former Spain + 1 Korean city.
Btw, I can't check the save, did we take the Portugese city next to Lisbon? The report is a little too crypted for the simple me...
ThERat
Deity
Let's not get our feelings in the way to win this game...
It should serve us as a lesson to get at least 1 defender into each city we have + some mobile defenses. Who knows, later someone else starts attacking us as well. Most likely Persia's powergraph is looking very good.
This should also teach us to involve France into a war that will drag them down, such as fighting Celts...
