SGOTM 13 - One Short Straw

[babybluepants]

Thread clutter was one of my major problems last game. Found it impossible to follow the discussion, let alone participate fully. The other problems were slowness of game progress, especially in the initial phase (basically lost interest about 3 weeks before we even played a turn), and an overly deterministic strategy (which I happened to disagree with) that didn't appear to be questioned very much.

Also agree with LC on having goals. For me, SGOTM 11 and the private SGs leading up to it were about getting a strong result. SGOTM 12 was about playing as perfect as possible and winning gold. 13 & 14 are not particularly interesting scenarios, IMHO, and I'm not sure we could play a better and more interesting game than 12. That all adds to my lack of motivation.

 

[shyuhe]

I'm pretty sure a diplo victory will win 14 unless the map allows for a galley based conquest. Airships + siege will kill pretty much any military unit in the game and if the Wizard is a civ, then it shouldn't be too hard to take him out (assuming he doesn't have super techs). I imagine the oracle debate will be a raging hot one though

I don't have a particular goal in mind for 14 -- mostly just playing it to have fun.

 

[neilmeister]

13 & 14 are not particularly interesting scenarios, IMHO, ..... That all adds to my lack of motivation.

Well, its the best I could do at short notice. I'm sorry it doesn't excite you, but its impossible to please everyone.

You could have designed it yourself, then at least I would have gotten to play.

 

[Mitchum]

No one has signed up yet. Do we have enough to keep OSS alive? As far as I can tell, we have:

Dhoomstriker - in
shyuhe - in
Mitchum - in
bbp - pondering
LC - trying to figure out a worthy goal for this game
mdy - AWOL (absent without leave)
Ras - MIA (missing in action)
Lexad - who?
mystyfly - busy playing other SGs?
Emperor Peter - ???
Rusten - ???
ungy - ???

I'm hoping that we can get at least 4 or 5 players back from the last SGOTM to form our core team.

 

[LowtherCastle]

The scenario is fine for me, nothing wrong with a relatively standard game and the mapmaker can throw in twists. I guess I've got three choices so far:

1. Win gold using flying camera (haven't done that yet...)
2. Help Dhoom get his first gold (perfectly valid motivation for me)
3. Just play it to have fun (a la Shyuhe). This would be very challenging. How to have fun without doing any MM...? Is that actually possible?

 

[Mitchum]

1. Win gold using flying camera (haven't done that yet...)

Even though we chose not to use it in the last game, it would be interesting to see how well we could map out the surrounding area. I'm afraid of heights... or is it widths? In any event, I don't intend to do too much flying myself.

2. Help Dhoom get his first gold (perfectly valid motivation for me)

This could end up being your biggest challenge ever!!

3. Just play it to have fun (a la Shyuhe). This would be very challenging. How to have fun without doing any MM...? Is that actually possible?

No one said no more MM. In fact, MM is what makes OSS the team that it is. Very good MM with a solid strategy won gold in SGOTM-12. I'd hate to abandon it completely.

Spoiler :

I think there are ways to hide MM details from those that don't care.

So does that mean you're in? That would give us 4 players with one or two on the fence.

 

[shyuhe]

I don't play on using the flying camera. If others want to use it, go ahead.

If we can get one more person, I'm pretty sure we'll have enough on the roster to field a team.

 

[mdy]

I should be able to play in this game.

As far as MM is concerned I think we did get to bogged down on minor points in the last game. In future I think we would be better off deferring to the active player on minor issues. I think this caused several players to lose interest in the previous game (and in fairness I think I was partly to blame for this by waiting to long to get a consensus on minor points when I played the GP set.), and if we want to avoid this happening again I think this is essential.

 

[shyuhe]

Sweet, we have enough for a team!

I think deferring to the active player should help a lot in the MM department. Hopefully we'll find a better balance this time around, especially since the game will go till around 1000 AD (or longer).

 

[babybluepants]

Well, its the best I could do at short notice. I'm sorry it doesn't excite you, but its impossible to please everyone.

You could have designed it yourself, then at least I would have gotten to play.

Sorry, neil. Sounded worse than I intended it to. What I meant to say is that I'm quite short of spare time these days, and need lots of motivation to participate to the extent that I would be happy with. I'm sure the scenario will be interesting. It's just that SGOTM 12 set the mark pretty high for me in terms of unusual and difficult challenge and I'd be more motivated by something in that vein.

That said, I'm signing up. Probably about the same level of participation as last game.

 

[shyuhe]

Thanks for bringing our headcount up to the magic number bbp We'll see if we can coax you into playing a set or two

 

[babybluepants]

If we need numbers, we could ask Thrar to join. Seems like an ok player.

 

[babybluepants]

... or we could ask bcool to stop goofing around and rejoin.

 

[Rusten]

Count me out. SGOTM is such a big commitment and I lost motivation very quickly when I opened the thread and found several essays written every time with little to no progress.

Basically this:

Thread clutter was one of my major problems last game. Found it impossible to follow the discussion, let alone participate fully. The other problems were slowness of game progress, especially in the initial phase (basically lost interest about 3 weeks before we even played a turn), and an overly deterministic strategy (which I happened to disagree with) that didn't appear to be questioned very much.

Good luck to you though, I will check in and read during the next one.

 

[bcool]

... or we could ask bcool to stop goofing around and rejoin.

You're just scared my new team is going to kick your butts

 

[shyuhe]

You're just scared my new team is going to kick your butts

It'll be tough to beat us if you only have two people. As they say, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!

 

[LowtherCastle]

Count me out. SGOTM is such a big commitment and I lost motivation very quickly when I opened the thread and found several essays written every time with little to no progress.

I think a good solution to this general problem is to go back to the basics of the SGOTM principles:

6. When it is your turn to play, it is normal to pick the game up within 24 hours of the new save being made available, and to post a new save within 48 hours of that (so 72 hours in total). If you cannot meet the deadline then your team captain may grant you an extension or skip you at his discretion.​

This is what Murky Waters originally did, and it kept motivation and interest high. In fact, you had to be on your toes if you didn't want to miss your turnset. When Erkon introduced the PrePlayPlan, that principle changed slightly, of course, to allow people to respond to the PPP. So it basically became:

1. 24 hours to download and "Got it!"
2. 24 hours to post a PPP
3. 24 hours for people to respond to the PPP
4. 24-48 hours to play the turnset.

Obviously, some decisions might stretch that out, but that principle works fairly well.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

The more responsive that the Active Player is to feedback from others, the more effective and efficient the following stage can be:

3. X hours for people to respond to the PPP

The Active Player really needs to be actively involved in the discussion. For example, the Active Player needs to rephrase things (i.e. add them to their PPP) to confirm that they understood the feedback. The Active Player needs to ask questions. The Active Player can delegate responsibilities ("Yo, Mitchum, can you make me one of your super duper awesome spreadsheets," "Can someone please run a test game to confirm what was stated," etc).

If the Active Player isn't updating the PPP and isn't involved much in the discussion, then people WILL start repeating themselves because they will feel that their voices are not being heard. That situation just creates a mess for everyone.

So, treat your role as the Active Player with respect for the role and for your teammates. Commit to your teammates to being particularly active when you are the Active Player and be willing to either edit your messages or repost multiple new versions of your plan within a short period of time. Put in the effort to guide the conversation and to acknowledge the fact that you have understood the feedback of others, even if you do not plan to use it.

Do those things and the game will run a LOT more smoothly. Slack off on those things and you, as the Active Player, are responsible for creating the mess that develops.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

@ Ras

You can only lurk if you make silly, off-the-wall comments.

I'll subscribe and do my best Mitch

 

[ZPV]

My first SG interest was winning gold. MW did that in SG76. THen repeating, which we did in SG98. My next main SG interest was in playing a perfect game. MW did that in SG1110. My next interest was winning gold on another team. OSS did that in SG1312, so I'd need a new goal.

Learning to count might be a start.

More seriously, I think your new goal should be to

• Kill'em! Kill'em all!

Win a game in OSS where the military victories haven't been disabled by the mapmaker