SGOTM 13 - One Short Straw

[mdy]

I'm also happy for LC to play on till the Oracle is built.

I also agree that getting the circumnavigation bonus should be the first priority for our explorers.

The Ducks might have gone for a late metal casting sling, or perhaps a CS sling to give them their power spike.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Okay, I'll go ahead and play to the Oracle, if nothing exceptional happens in between. I'll go binary on Writing and minimize the OF on the last turn, then go 0% with research set to the CoL. We can decide on AH or CoL later.

The way the two explorers are situated now, if we don't have problems circumnavigating, then the eastern wb should be able to continue eastward and find Cathy, while the western one should be able to loop around to the south and come back to meet Ragnar. We'll have OBs soon, in case Willem's culture is between Cathy and our wb.

Other notes:
* Dhoom, the worst-case scenario I was referring to was if the Ducks beelined Sailing and settled Gold early. That gives them a significant advantage on all teams that didn't, especially if they settled it as early as mdy was suggesting we do (~T62).

 

[Dhoomstriker]

I'll go binary on Writing and minimize the OF on the last turn, then go 0% with research set to the CoL. We can decide on AH or CoL later.

Sure, that approach is fine by me.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Okay, Dhoom, I just noticed something about Gold. It's T97 now and I can do two things:

     New idea       Dhoom
     --------       ----- 

       f   h  c       f   h  c
     ----- - --     ----- - --
T97  27/36 3  7     27/36 3  7
T98  34/36 3  9     30/36 6 14
T99  22/39 3 11     33/36 9 21
T100 27/39 6 20     20/39 9 23

In other words, we can exchange 7f for 3h+3c. Preferences anyone? 7f seems like a lot to me.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

In other words, we can exchange 7f for 3h+3c. Preferences anyone? 7f seems like a lot to me.

I take it that you're just working from a test game?

As we discussed previously, having 3 more Food than my approach didn't help out for a long time. Having 7 more Food, though, might allow us to meet a growth breakpoint and therefore gain additional Commerce IF it turns out that we can grow faster... I'll go and check it out using the now-potentially-but-hopefully-not outdated test game.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Nah, I'm working from my post-it notepad... Okay, I just ran it three more turns and bingo:

     New idea       Dhoom
     --------       ----- 

       f    h  c       f    h  c
     ----- -- --     ----- -- --
T97  27/36  3  7     27/36  3  7
T98  34/36  3  9     30/36  6 14
T99  22/39  3 11     33/36  9 21
T100 27/39  6 20     20/39  9 23
T101 32/39  9 29     25/39 12 32
T102 37/36 12 38     30/36 15 41
T103 22/39 15 45     19/39 15 43

Net gain in all three categories: +3f +0h +2c

I'm learning!

 

[LowtherCastle]

Plus, according to my post-it notes, we get to pop5 1t sooner for the lib 2pop. Not gonna test it, just gonna play it out...

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Plus, according to my post-it notes, we get to pop5 1t sooner for the lib 2pop. Not gonna test it, just gonna play it out...

Well, I'm testing it out right now if you want.

Part of the concern is that you'll need to do things differently on different turns, so the PPP will be out-of-date.

For example:
Turn 97, 1575 BC wk Fish + Clam (which was the main point of your change)
Turn 99, 1525 BC You can still build the Monument but the "wk Fish + Clam" comment no longer applies since we are already at City Size 3
Turn 102, 1450 BC no change
Turn 103, 1425 BC no change
Turn 105, 1350 BC wk Coast at city size 4 (used to be nothing)
Turn 106, 1325 BC do nothing (used to be wk Coast at city size 4)
Turn 109, 1275 BC 2pop lib; wk Fish + Clam + Gold at city size 3 (instead of doing this stuff on Turn 110)
Turn 111, 1225 BC hire sci1 (instead of doing so on Turn 112)

It definitely looks like a better approach, though, since by Turn 106, you're only 1 Commerce and 3 Hammers behind while being up 7 Food.


That extra Food may come and bite us in the butt later, though, when we grow into an extra turn of Unhappiness twice (i.e. 2 extra turns of Unhappiness).

 

[LowtherCastle]

We can now see orange culture--Izzy? Here's the turnset report.

xpost

Yes, Dhoom, I've been doing some housekeeping, just in case you were...I'm waiting...

 

[babybluepants]

Is Spain gonna block circumnav?

 

[LowtherCastle]

It definitely looks like a better approach, though, since by Turn 106, you're only 1 Commerce and 3 Hammers behind while being up 7 Food.

Well, what I did on my post-it was to work the gold again when we 1pop the lh (your PPP works both seafood). So I'm only +3f after that, but I've gained back the hammers and moved ahead in commerce.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Yeah, I just confirmed that we'll end up with an extra turn of Unhappiness on Turn 123, due to growing to that City Size faster.

I'm not sure how we'd "count" that turn... count it as a Coast? count it as an Unnetted Clam? Whatever we count it as, though, there is the very real benefit of whipping the Library 1 turn sooner and hiring a Scientist Specialist one turn sooner... so, I think that we can accept the extra turn of Unhappiness and go with your proposed change.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Is Spain gonna block circumnav?

Yup, but only the SW wb. Either the eastern wb circums or we get OBs and finish the job. (if circum is possible, of course)

xppost

Okay, Dhoom! ONward!

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Well, what I did on my post-it was to work the gold again when we 1pop the lh (your PPP works both seafood). So I'm only +3f after that, but I've gained back the hammers and moved ahead in commerce.

Doing so might not give us enough Food to whip the Library one turn earlier... I'll check it out and let you know.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Okay, the answer is: sure, go ahead with your approach of Turn 97 Fish + Clam but Turn 102 1-pop-whip the Lighthouse and work the Fish + Gold.

Compared to Turn 102 working the Fish + Clam, we will grow to Size 4 one turn slower but will still grow to Size 5 at the same time, thus we will still be able to whip the Library 1 turn sooner than what's in the PPP (i.e. we will grow to Size 5 on Turn 109 and will be able to 2-pop-whip the Library then, instead of the PPP's Turn 110).

Plus, then we'll regrow to Size 4 in 3 turns, as opposed to "Turn 102 Fish + Clam"'s regrow to Size 4 in 2 turns, meaning that we might not experience an extra turn of Unhappiness (I haven't played it out far enough to know for certain since you seem to want to "go go go"), while you still get to benefit from the earlier Library.


HOWEVER, be sure to remember to capture the overflow Hammers into the Library instead of into the Monument on Turn 103. It's in the PPP, but it's also easy to forget, and forgetting would mess up the whipping timing of the Library.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Okay, the answer is: sure, go ahead with your approach of Turn 97 Fish + Clam but Turn 102 2-pop-whip the Library and work the Fish + Gold.

Typo? THis should be 1pop the lh, right?

 

[Dhoomstriker]

We meet Izzy the Buddhist. Has 3 cities. Not in slavery. Knows no one that we know.
1 known AI knows Polytheism, could be Izzy or Willem, probably Izzy.

Could Vicky have been the one to grab Polytheism? She seems to like going for Priesthood, at least as per the test game.

Hopefully, whoever got Polytheism is going to go after Monotheism for Judaism (or has Judaism already been founded?), instead of going for Priesthood and giving us potential Oracle competition.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Typo? THis should be 1pop the lh, right?

Yes, a typo that should have said "Lighthouse."

Library, Lighthouse... slip of the tongue (errr, fingers?)... it all comes from the same source (the language area of the brain).

 

[LowtherCastle]

Could Vicky have been the one to grab Polytheism? She seems to like going for Priesthood, at least as per the test game.

Hopefully, whoever got Polytheism is going to go after Monotheism for Judaism (or has Judaism already been founded?), instead of going for Priesthood and giving us potential Oracle competition.

No. She didn't complete a tech this turn. It's got to be Izzy or Willem. No one has Judaism yet.

 

[LowtherCastle]