SGOTM 13 - Spooks

[Paul#42]

Problems with warriors instead of archers / spears:
They take the same time to be built - but we need the amount doubled.
If we rush them from the scratch, they are relatively more expensive (80g vs. 120g)
Advantages: They serve equally (bad) as offense and defense.
To build them in two turns, we don't have to rush in NO - 5spt we will have even after we built a settler.

So I'll switch to a settler and then to warriors.
We start some two-turn-rushed-cats in Queens (That's the name of the new town).They cost 19*4=78g each.

So if we rush warriors and cats every turn it would be 200gpt (80g+120g) for 6 turns => 6 warriors and 6 cats for 1200g and we are broke.

If we build them in two, it's 78g every second turn, 6 warriors and 6 cats in 12 turns for 468g...


12 turns sounds a bit late to me...
I guess I'll do a mix of both, first two-turn and later every turn.

For the context:
war with Spain (to take back New Nagoya) possible in 15.

If it's ~8 turns to the next G&R (with America) we could build something useful in the old world. The towns are currently building spears...
I guess we need more warriors there.
Maybe some swords also? I could hook up the Iron on the south end.

 

[killercane]

I think just more warriors for sure in the Old Land. We need 3 more IIRC to stop landings. We will probably need to rush a galley or two more there to bring in more units asap after taking Chicago.

Dont forget to scrounge for gold as much as possible. Selling world maps, territory maps everything. We havent had any offers to sell contact, could PP still be out there undiscovered? How the heck does that happen?

 

[Andronicus]

Sorry for lack of input, my civ computer is out of action so I cant download the save
Looks like we're in for some continued struggle yet. I havnt been able to think of any other bright ideas of how we go about it, so I guess its just all systems go to get as much firepower ASAP to take America and hope Carthage doesnt arrive on our doorstep with a mass of cavs!

 

[Paul#42]

playing now...

 

[Paul#42]

Peaceful game so far...

Carthage made peace without any losses - they payed 80g and 17gpt for peace and some maps...

Finally India bought our contact. They have the money now. 27k
And they know four more civs, offer contacts for 60g to 370g. Not now, I guess.

Here's the details:

Spoiler :

turn 0 (182) 670 AD
rush settler in NO for 160g
Units block the path to "Queens"

IBT
NO settler -> warrior
Indian finish Bach's
lucky me placed a slave in Celtic territory that was not booted immediately

turn 1 (183) 680 AD

IBT
spanish caravel heads for New Nagoya
Celts sign Vikings against Rome
Vikings dow Celts
There's someone out there we don't know yet...

turn 2 (184) 690 AD
Rome offers horses for our wm. Too bad he's got no Iron in excess...
Carthage signs peace for 80g, 3gpt and their map
And 6gpt for our world map
France give their wm for ours.
Portugal also. And Carthage gives another 8gpt.
There is a free Iron source just four settler moves between former American towns...

IBT
America and Spain sign peace
Indians finish Smith's.
Celts finish Newton's.

turn 3 (185) 700 AD
found Queens south of New York. Rush temple to gain some tiles towards NY and the cow.
And rush temples in Suo and Panama for some culture.

IBT
Queens temple -> cat
Panama temple -> wealth
Suo temple -> worker (1st and 3rd are american citizens)

turn 4 (186) 710 AD
rush cat in Queens (120g)
buy two slaves from Rome for 12gpt.
Mongols are in the IA.

IBT
Rome and Mongols sign peace...
NO warrior -> warrior
Queens cat -> cat

turn 5 (187) 720 AD
rush cat in Queens
don't buy a slave from Spain. We want no 20 turn trade and we need all cash.

IBT
Queens cat -> cat

turn 6 (188) 730 AD
rush cat in Queens

IBT
NO warrior -> warrior
Queens cat -> cat

turn 7 (189) 740 AD
rush cat in Queens.
rush warrior in NO.
Celts are down to 2245g. India got 26946
India is new, they offer contact to Russia, Chinese, Koreans and Dutch.
Invest 106g for embassy in Bombay.

If no Indian forces are close they'd need five turn to our territory.
But whom will they bribe? Celts would be a problem...

Save is uploaded but I plan to go on for some more turns tomorrow or the day after.

 

[Paul#42]

party on, Wayne!

 

[killercane]

I will be able to look at it a bit later. If India is rich that gives us a whole new opportunity.

 

[Paul#42]

Sorry, I did not find time to play yet.

India is extremely rich (27k) and we should certainly try that. It's far away enough and the jungle and several mongol units block their cavs.
Nevertheless they might bribe some closer rivals - well, it's do or die!

I wanted to play some more turns, I will play tomorrow. Post your ideas if you like.

 

[Paul#42]

and once again the evening was to short for this epic game...

I'd play tomorrow evening (for sure ) but if anybody else wants to play - go ahead.

 

[Andronicus]

Still waiting for my "civ" computer, I'm told it should be back monday

 

[Paul#42]

Okay, I just played another 3 turns.

We know 24 rivals.
We got Feudalism, Iron and 3300g.
We are average to America
India is revolting - I guess their people are not too happy with the war...

Let's check how we go on.

in detail:

Spoiler :

turn 7 (189) 740 AD
(continued)

IBT
Izumo warrior -> wealth
Tokyo galley -> wealth
New Orleans warrior -> warrior
Queens cat -> cat
Suo worker -> worker

turn 8 (190) 750 AD
sell all temples.

IBT
Mongols and Russia against Dutch
Celts have Rifles...

turn 9 (191) 760 AD
gift all towns but the one to India. Buy some contacts for all our gold.
Nice contacts. Aztecs, Byzantines still in AT...
dow, retake - get 477-615g per town 6500 altogether.
when a town was gifted at size 2, it stays size 2 on retake! Start slaves in those towns to cheaper block the coast.

Arabia offers us Feudalism and Iron for 2,500g
That would leave us 4000 for upgrades, that's 33 MDI
The end of our poorness is near, gentlemen!
Hurry some warriors (rax in Queens) to get more to upgrade!

IBT
India forbids Babylon, Mongols to trade with us
India signs Hittites, England against us

turn 10 (192) 770 AD
Buy Feud, Iron from Ottomans for 2377g.
I hesitated first but building warriors and upgrading is 80g+
and rishing MDI directly is 80g+120g - but we have it immediately and this is safer.

IBT
India forbids Zulus, China to trade with us
India signs Dutch against us
Tokyo flips to Spain

 

[killercane]

So whats next?

 

[Andronicus]

I've got my civ computer back - will dl and look at save

PS

Arabia offers us Feudalism and Iron for 2,500g
That would leave us 4000 for upgrades, that's 33 MDI

India signs Hittites, England against us

India signs Dutch against us
Tokyo flips to Spain

at least it wasnt Iroquois, Celts or Mongols (Spain might have been OK, but not keen on meeting their UU)

 

[Andronicus]

So whats next?

America

 

[Andronicus]

Well things certainly look pretty hairy

My thoughts

Current goals
Take over American lands including Chicago with GLH ASAP
Retake towns flipped to Spain (after PT runs out)
Try for peace with those that are a threat to us (isnt that everyone )

Kappa (northern) isle
- insufficient cats to retake Tokyo (after PT runs out in 4 turns) ? rush 3 in Osaka

Theta (south) isle
- 2 tiles not blockaded (warriors currently occupied suppressing resistors (considering number of civs at war with us and their ability to cross oceans, is this too much a risk?)
- room for another town, I see settler being built in DGM - is that where its destined for, or is it planned to go to main continent once we capture GLH?

Alpha continent
- do we rop with Celts so we can quickly get through Ise?
- why governors in NO? (I can understand them in towns with resistors being suppressed but not elsewhere)
- upgrade 5 warriors as sooon as return to NO
- ? short rush MDI (build 5 shields, rush 25, build last 10 -> 3 turn MDI) in NO
- ? rush cats in Queens (or settlers (see below)
- do we take and hold or raze and replace American cities? Difficult question as razing gives us valuable slaves, reduces flip risk (esp if America are left with St Louis). We do want to keep Chicago though, and building sufficient settlers to prevent AI beating us to city sites will be problematic. I suspect we raze when we can resettle immediately except we do keep Chicago and we are prepared to retake as required.

Any thoughts gentlemen ...

 

[Paul#42]

The settler is meant to re-found on the rubble spot.
NO might also build one as sson as it reaches size 3...

America we should go for as soon as we have some more MDI. Currently it's just 4 MDI and iirc 5 warriors about to upgrade. When they are back in Queens, the jungle is roaded and we should have like 12 MDI and 2 pikes.
We might take New York first to spare a turn on our trip to Chikago but leave it empty and raze it after it flipped. Or we head directly to Chikago, protect our gains and ferry over some vet warriors and cats.
I guess we should make Chikago our new capital to make it flip-proof. Easy task if we do the jump right in the middle of a G&R-session.

No more cats should be built on Kappa - let's rather ferry a couple of them over from Theta. We should rush more slaves there to block the coast for free.

Before America I'd G&R Korea (far away) or Rome (almost gone, maybe we get a tech?). We should chose one with few towns but much gold
Ottomans are ruled out, we need their Iron. While gifting we should also buy the available contacts we'll regain some of that money - that favors Rome. But Rome is down to 3 cities, maybe they won't live till we can make peace - Or we leave them a town on Kappa to extort a tech when they are down to that town?
After America G&R Spain, maybe while jumping our palace to Chikago?

 

[Paul#42]

- do we rop with Celts so we can quickly get through Ise?

I'd rather found another town in the jungle to gain the roaded tile 2 NW(?) of Ise. It's certainly cheaper and we have another producer there allowing to build units every second turn rather than every turn.

- why governors in NO? (I can understand them in towns with resistors being suppressed but not elsewhere)

IIRC I assigned the governors in the recent preturn when the first town rioted (with one happy and one discontent citizen ). We should change it back, of course.

 

[Andronicus]

The settler is meant to re-found on the rubble spot.

OK

NO might also build one as soon as it reaches size 3...

NO is size 3, do you mean when it reaches size 4 so can go back to size 2 and still do 5spt?

America we should go for as soon as we have some more MDI. Currently it's just 4 MDI and iirc 5 warriors about to upgrade. When they are back in Queens, the jungle is roaded and we should have like 12 MDI and 2 pikes.
We might take New York first to spare a turn on our trip to Chicago but leave it empty and raze it after it flipped. Or we head directly to Chicago, protect our gains and ferry over some vet warriors and cats.

Razing has bonus of getting us slaves, but we need a settler to replace else some AI will settle there

I guess we should make Chicago our new capital to make it flip-proof. Easy task if we do the jump right in the middle of a G&R-session.

Not as central as NO, but more easily defensible - any thoughts KC?

No more cats should be built on Kappa - let's rather ferry a couple of them over from Theta. We should rush more slaves there to block the coast for free

.
Good idea

Before America I'd G&R Korea (far away) or Rome (almost gone, maybe we get a tech?). We should chose one with few towns but much gold
Ottomans are ruled out, we need their Iron. While gifting we should also buy the available contacts we'll regain some of that money - that favours Rome. But Rome is down to 3 cities, maybe they won't live till we can make peace - Or we leave them a town on Kappa to extort a tech when they are down to that town?

I'll search through the avail contacts to find best options.
I note Byz are very backward - I recommend we gift them to tech parity in the hope they gain a tech and enable us to do a 2 for 1 deal. At very least we should be able to trade for their WM, contacts and loose change.

After America G&R Spain, maybe while jumping our palace to Chicago?

Yes we need those flipped towns back to leverage more from our G&R

I'd rather found another town in the jungle to gain the roaded tile 2 NW(?) of Ise. It's certainly cheaper and we have another producer there allowing to build units every second turn rather than every turn.

Good point - we need to spend that money on units ASAP to gain more territory

PS Got it
Plan to play when I return from work if poss - any further comment welcomed

 

[Paul#42]

NO is size 3, do you mean when it reaches size 4 so can go back to size 2 and still do 5spt?

As long as we rush our builds there from the scratch, to get 5spt is not very important. And if we plan to jump the palace, I'd rather disband a size-1-town...
However we will run out of money soon and than we cannot rush every turn. But still it's not too important whether we get 3 or 5 shields on the first turn if we rush to 40 in the second. Rather get that settler out quickly because the new town will be productive earlier and our units move quicker, especially in emergency if any other power attacks from the east.

Razing has bonus of getting us slaves, but we need a settler to replace else some AI will settle there

That's why I would take it and raze it (earliest) after if flipped for the first time.
This however costs us MDI staying next to it. Maybe if we have a couple of 1/4 or 2/4 MDI that need rest, they could stay outside for a couple of turns rather than try to quel the resistance (which I'd usually assign them to)

Not as central as NO, but more easily defensible - any thoughts KC?

It would not be "forever" since we could disband it after Astronomy - but for some time our palace would be fixed there, yes.

I'll search through the avail contacts to find best options.
I note Byz are very backward - I recommend we gift them to tech parity in the hope they gain a tech and enable us to do a 2 for 1 deal. At very least we should be able to trade for their WM, contacts and loose change.

Great idea.
Good chance we get eng or mono for our Feud. Why did not I think of that?
Persia is also available as a new contact, maybe they are backwards also?

 

[Andronicus]

Sl delay as I've been called in to do an extra shift
Question - where had you intended settling Paul? The only option I could see is east, NE of NO (Ise culture has taken some tiles from us)
- you said 2NW of of Ise above, but that is where Queens is situated

As I see it, Orange claims the tile 2SW of Ise, speeding communication between NO and Queens (one turn spent in Celtic territory), razing NY and settling green dot allows reinforcements to join for the push to Chicago. Red dot allows us to avoid Celtic territory but results in split forces attacking Boston, then on to Chicago via Phily. I make it 10 turns to Chicago by red route and 6 by orange, ? orange better.
Other tiles avail to settle include black and purple (in wrong direction) and pink (requires swamp removed first - too long a delay)


Sorry, but I cant find easy uploads - I'll look again after work
Basically red dot is E,NE of NO, orange dot W,SW of NO, purple 2SW of NO, black 2SE of NO, pink W,NW of Queens and green NE of NY - it looks better in piccies though.