SGOTM 14 - Ivan

[I. Larkin]

Where is your enthusiasm, Ivan?

Good question... Something have happend in my brain. Did not play Civ for 2 month and don't want to. Really have to force myself to play 5 turns in GR-25 and that's it... I thought that intrest will return itself like it have happend few times in my civ life. Normally it takes 2 weeks or so, but now it did not...

 

[I. Larkin]

Start to play COTM 57 to warm up.
How things go, Ignas?

 

[ignas]

I didn't start yet Finishing very time consuming COTM 56 now.

 

[DWetzel]

Pfft. Don't bother!

Thanks for the update at least. I, too, will be COTM 57-ing shortly.

 

[Lanzelot]

Finishing very time consuming COTM 56 now.

I tried as well, but didn't manage to finish...

Back to this game, though: will we finish this within 30turns? Then Ivan should get the honor of finishing it, perhaps this will lighten up your spirit...!
But is it really my turn after ignas? I thought Othniel is before me?!

Regards, Lanzelot

 

[ignas]

Skip me, please.

 

[I. Larkin]

But is it really my turn after ignas? I thought Othniel is before me?!

Regards, Lanzelot

Yes, let's keep most recent roster order. Otherwise it will be "skip, skip, skip..."
So Lantzelot up.
It is sensible idea to discuss plans...

 

[Lanzelot]

Ok, I got it. Will post my ideas tonight.

Lanzelot

 

[Lanzelot]

Ok, here is our current situation:

We still need 1126 tiles. With a number of settlers and very few temples we can gain 137 tiles at home (including a relocation of Ottomania), 39 tiles in Greece and 44 in the France/Inca complex = 220 immediate tiles. (Intombe and Moscow don't need temples, or are these intended for flip-prevention? Otherwise I'll change them to settler.)

The tribes, which still have a significant number of tiles and do not currently have both, iron and Feudalism, are: Egypt 95 tiles, America 107, Iroquios 99, Aztecs 102, Korea 78, Maya 122, Sumeria 45. The good thing is, that except for Egypt and Sumeria, all of them are already "relocated" (good job, DWetzel!), so conquest of their mainlands can start immediately. If I substract 9 tiles from the ones, which are already relocated, this gives 604 tiles.

Also we want to attack Persia because of Leonardo's, and that will bring another 128 tiles. (But Persia will be a tough nut!) That gives a total of 952 tiles. How to gain the remaining 174 tiles should be decided, when we get there. Perhaps Rome is a good candidate, despite their Legions, because they have already "relocated" themselves and they don't have horses. And then we need to crack one more tough nut. That will depend on where our forces will be concentrated at that point in time.

In the short run we still need to "relocate" Ottomania, Persia (because their capital should be far away from Leonardo's), Egypt and Sumeria. My plan for this is to send 4 settlers to Zululand and use these spots for the relocation. That won't cost us a single tile. Drawback is: it will still take a little while, before for towns on the Zulu island are ready, but the wars with Egypt and Persia are about to start soon. So perhaps we have to send them to Celtia temporarily?!

At the moment our forces are ready to strike in Egypt, Persia, Korea and Iroquois. However, "ready" is perhaps a bit exaggarated: we have only 60 Knights and in all four locations our forces are a bit limited. This calls for very skillful and cautious operations like in Ivan's Indian campaign. Persia has Knights, so it may be difficult to apply that strategy here. Therefore I'm tempted to use our Army exclusively as "cover" for the rest of the Army and gifting a town away immediately after taking it. Then when they are down to 1 town, make peace with them and start retaking the towns, while their units hopefully get auto-disbanded... Egypt, Korea and the Iroquois should be weaker, so hopefully not that difficult to take. In Egypt I think I'll use the Army offensively.

Who is still giving us war happiness? I think we want peace as soon as possible with Arabia, Celtia and Russia, and make peace with Zululand after we've founded 4 towns on their island. How about Germany?

At the moment we have 25 horses, but we should wait with upgrading until we got Leonardo's. Therefore I will move the horses to the barracks closest to the front line, and use our current money for rushing a few settlers? (Especially for Zululand.)

Our income is surprisingly low. Is it still worth building markets in all or some of Sagres, Evora, Leiria, Guarda, Alcácer or Yaroslavl?! They have decent income and some are still growing. But if we have chances to finish this in under 30 turns, it won't pay off anymore.

So to sum it up: the plan for the next 10 turns is, procede carefully but decisively in Egypt, Iroquois, Korea and Persia; prepare four relocation sites in Zululand; start "filling the gaps", especially Ottomania.

Regards, Lanzelot

 

[DWetzel]

Keep in mind we're about to ROP rape Persia, and if I recall correctly Egypt and Iros as well. So those conquests should go quickly.

Are you counting coastal tiles in your domination calcs? It seemed like we didn't need quite that many civs dead.

 

[Lanzelot]

Are you counting coastal tiles in your domination calcs? It seemed like we didn't need quite that many civs dead.

The numbers at home, in Greece, France and Incaland I counted manually and included coastal tiles. The numbers for the AIs to be conquered I took from the "General" section of CivAssist. I assumed that these would be "domination-relevant" tiles. But now that you asked, I became unsure myself and counted Korea manually to make sure. And my result was: 64! CivAssist gives Korea at 78, so this means, these numbers include ocean tiles! So we'll need even a few more tiles...

It seemed like we didn't need quite that many civs dead.

I was quite surprised myself! Can't remember anymore, but perhaps when we made our last estimate, we did not yet have the exact dom-limit?! I remember that once when we made some calculations, we estimated the dom-limit somewhere in the 1700s.

Lanzelot

 

[DWetzel]

Hmmph. That's too bad.

 

[I. Larkin]

Really I can't see the way to win in 30 turns, but let's try. I'd save money for Leo upgrade first. If we are lucky we may take it next turn. (The trick is to pull all Knighs to 5/6 moves and only then break RoP). Then (until reinforcment come) we may gift Leo and take back few times. Actually I planed to resettle Persia to Inca : it is far away.
IIRC Germany give us WH, Sure, we should make peace with Russia and Celtia. do not remember Arabia.

 

[I. Larkin]

Are you playing, Lanzelot?

 

[Lanzelot]

Yep, I've played the first 5 turns. Progress is very slow, but I should be able to finish the second half over the weekend.

Lanzelot

 

[Lanzelot]

Ok, the game is on the server. I'll post my turn-log and handover notes tomorrow.

Regards, Lanzelot

 

[I. Larkin]

OK.
Roster is
Ivan (got it)
Othniel next.
Dwetzel
Eldar

 

[Lanzelot]

Turnlog:

Spoiler :

0. Leftover 530:
Sign peace with Russia. Change Intombe from temple to court, Moscow & Pederneira from temple to settler, Lyons from settler to temple.

Establish embassy in Washington for 34g, sign ROP with America for Currency&Construction. ROP with Aztecs for 3 luxes.

Start attack on Iroquois. Take Salamanca (no losses) and found Oporto to deprive them of their horses.

IBT: Loose 3 Kts versus 6 Mounted Warriors. 2 Galleys get sunk. Korea starts TGL.

1. 540:
Irokesia: kill 4 MW, loosing one Kt.
Make ROP with Babylon for free. (?!)
Gift Ollantaytambo to Persia. Attack Pasargadea, they have 4 pikes and an immortal in there, I lost 5 Kts and an AC. (I attacked the last remaining 1/4 immortal with the Army, because it still had movement points left and was able to retreat from the city after taking it, but unfortunately it lost 3 hitpoints before the immortal was defeated?!) I sell everything inside Pasargadae for ~100g, upgrade 9 horses and then gift Pasargadae to Babylon.
Original plan was to gift Persian Point to Babylon as well, but as I wasn't sure, whether the Persian Knights would attack a 10/13 Army, I left Persian Point as a "gambit".

IBT:
The Persians move one Kt next to Persian Point, but don't take it?!. They start TGL in Gordium. Therefore I decide to attack it last (why take a city, that doesn't produce units...).
Loose 1 Kt in Irokesia.

2. 550:
Gift Persian Point to Babylon and Oporto to Egypt. (The Iroquois had moved a stack of 10 units including 5 swords next to it. Also Oporto makes a good capital for Egypt... )
Mainly maneuvering.

IBT:
Arabs offer peace deal. I take it. Koreans, Hittites and Iroquois start TGL.

3. 560:
Take Wonsum, no losses.
Establish embassy in Sumeria for 72g. Sign ROP for 2 luxes.
Start war on Egypt. Take Elephantine and Memphis without losses. Clean up ~10 war chariots and swords, loosing 1 Kt.
Gift Salamanca to Babylon (the Iroquois stack had moved from Oporto to Salamanca...)

IBT:
The Mayas want peace. I think they are giving us WH, so I decline. Ottomans start TGL.

4. 570:
Take Niagara Falls, loosing 3 Kts.
Take Pyongyang, loosing 1 Kt. Make peace with Korea and get Literature.
Gift Memphis to the Ottomans.

IBT:
A Persian Kt attacks our 13/13 Army?!

5. 580:
Take Persepolis, loosing 6 Kts and one AC. Gift it to Sumeria. (We have a ROP with Sumeria, but the Persians don't...)

Sign ROP with Ottomans for free?! They probably haven't heard about our bad behavior yet...

IBT:
Persia is willing to give 140g for peace. I take it, as my units need two turns of healing anyway...
Iroquois start TGL again.

6. 590:
Take Alexandria, no losses, one Great Leader.
I sell Persia 6 luxes for 46gpt. Make peace with Germany for 55g + 2gpt.
Declare on Babylon, retake Pasargadae and upgrade 10 horses.
Declare on America, take Washington without losses and then loose 1 Kt versus a non-fortified horseman??! The next Kt goes to 1/4, before killing that horseman???! What kind of Mustangs do these Americans have?!
Declare on Ottomans and take Bursa without losses. However, two Kts are not enough to take Aydin, but fortunately no losses.

IBT:
Ottomans and Inca start TGL.

7. 600:
Take Heliopolis and Grand River without losses. Make peace with Iroquois and with Egypt for 3g each.
Retake Salamanca and Memphis from Babylon.
Sell Rome 4 luxes for 23g. Don't expect we will go to war with China, so I sell them Chivalry for 95g + 2gpt. Japan and India get Literature for 41g. Upgrade 9 horses.

IBT:
Loose 2 Kts in America, one in Ottomania. India, Iroquois, Mongolia and Sumeria start TGL.
The Mongols land a spear and a Med Inf next to Corinth?! Very suspicious.

8. 610:
I ask the Mongols to leave, they declare. Our Army pushes the Mongolian D-day force back into the sea...
Our settlement of Zulu Island is finished, therefore I make peace with them and get a worker and 25g.

American theater of war: my original plan was to take America in brute-force-mode, but it turns out they are stronger than expected: meanwhile they have sent a total of 31 units next to Washington, half of them swords! Ok, back to "Larkin mode". The Knights move directly to New York, bypassing the American stacks, the Crusaders and Trebuchets are evacuated to the galleys, then Washington is gifted to Sumeria.

IBT:
Niagara Falls flips! (Taking three elite Kts with it ) Iroquois has just a little bit more culture than we do?!
Loose 2 Kts in America (counter attack fro New York).

9. 620:
Take New York, no losses. Gift it to Sumeria.
Three Kts attack Istanbul, killing two pikes, but loosing one Kt. There's still a pike in there!
Sell Sumeria Monotheism for 42g. Sign peace and a ROP with the Mayas for 20g. Land 10 Kts in Mayaland.
Persian Point has grown to size 2, so I retake it from Babylon.
Move troups into position for a renewal of the war effort in Persia.
Sell China 1 lux for 4gpt, Maya 4 luxes for 20g, Aztecs 2 luxes for 21g.

IBT:
Persia asks us to leave, so I have to declare. We loose a treb and a Kt in the Persian Point army group, and they take the undefended Pasargadae.
Babylon starts TGL.

10. 630:
Take Boston, loosing one Crusader, attack Philadelphia, loosing one Kt. The last 1/4 spear holds!
Take Arbela loosing 5 and Antiochia loosing 2 Kts. I also clean up half a dozen Persian Kts and Immortals, no losses.

Declare on Iroquois and retake Niagara Falls. I leave it to Ivan, whether we raze it or not.
Kill another pike in Istanbul, there's still one more inside!

10Kts attack Copán and fail to take it! This was a true SOUR. The first two Kts kill the first pike, and then there's only Javelin throwers inside. However, these seem to be tougher than pikes?! The remaining 8 Kts manage to kill only two JTs, three losses, three retreats. So the attack on Mayaland fails once again.
The original plan was to take Copán, gift it to Aztecia (which have a ROP with us, but not with the Mayas), hide our troups behind that city, pull out again and try the same game on the south side. Now I have to retreat immediately, two Kts remain behind.

The Celts finally talk with us again, so I make peace.

Declare on Sumeria and take Sumer, loosing one Kt. The Army I got in Greece shields us from the Sumerian counter attack (which will be heavy: they had tons of units running around).

IBT:
Roughly a dozen units move into Copán. Our remaining Kts are killed. Iroquois and Ottomans start TGL again.

11. 640, trying to finish a few things:
2 Kts kill the pike in Istanbul. Still another spear inside!! Third Kt dies trying to take it.

3 Kts are necessary to kill the last spear in Philadelphia! One loss, one retreat, one victory. Make peace with America and retake New York from Sumeria.
Our Persian Army retakes Pasargadae. I think the Persian resistance is broken now, Gordium has been building TGL for a while, and there were no more units running around in the open last turn.

Handover notes:
Zulu4 can still be gifted to someone, perhaps the Hittites?! The three Kts in there are meant as "military police" to prevent the prisoners from fighting. I had them on the three roads in Zululand, but they got kicked out again. So we either need a ROP with the Zulus or go into war with them.

The Sumerian cities can be gifted to Aztekia. We have a ROP with them, but the Sumerians don't. Same applies to Mayaland, if you renew the attack on Copán.

I failed to clean out Aydin and Istanbul. I allocated too small resources to that job, thinking they are more urgently needed in Persia and Mayaland.

The galleys at Pasargadae can be used to transfer our units over to Bactra and then on to Tenochtitlan.

Besides conquering Sumeria, Mayaland, Aztekia (and perhaps Rome with forces coming from America?) we should now also concentrate on rushing settlers and filling the gaps in Iroquois, Egypt, America, Korea and Persia. (There's one new Russian city in Korea, which can be taken once it grows to size 2.) The reason is: we also need a lot more population to reach the 66%, so we need to found new cities now to give them some time for growing. (If we reach dom limit before population limit, join all workers to towns.)

This was probably (hopefully) my last turnset. May the force be with you!
Lanzelot

 

[Lanzelot]

PS: the Army in Persia should no longer be needed as a "shield", so you can use it for the final attack on Gordium and reduce our losses there!

However, use the Army in Sumeria only for cover! They have too many swords.

 

[I. Larkin]

Some strange production Lisbon and Opporto build Knights.
Nothing I can do about that...