SGOTM 14 - Ivan

eldar · Oct 21, 2008

Yeah, I just figured that out myself.

However I still prefer NC2 over NC1 because of the extra commerce it will bring in. NC1 gives us a buffer towards the AI but not much else, and besides we will get it right away after NC2 (4 turns...).

Also not shooting right for NC1 frees up some workers to road towards NC2 sooner, the road to Oporto via the Horses can go "slower". Incense will be great but it's not essential yet, we only need 10% Lux for 3 turns out of 4 which at this stage of a DG game is pretty good going.

Othniel · Oct 21, 2008

@eldar:

I like the settler--> worker --> settler sequence too. Worker should be done in 2 turns, so that seems acceptable.

@all

If it's true that we can reach both NC1 and NC2 in the same amount of time with our current road setup, I rather favor going for NC1 first and making sure the AI doesn't encroach us. I have seen the AI do weirdly aggressive settling for good spots before--no resources involved--but that was mostly on Deity. Settling NC1 first would be the cautious route, for sure.

But I think the biggest deciding factor is what we want to build first from our next city. I favor a worker as the first build, and both sites work fine for that. But if we want a curragh next, then we should go for NC2's coastal spot. The immediate food potential of both sites is equal as they both have a wheat. Of course, getting our 2 wheat site (NC2) growing sooner means it gets to its max food sooner, which is good. So.....both are pretty good. I think I just made myself more confused to boot. :lol:

Do what you want, Eldar!

Oh, and both sites should easily do 2spt. No way there is that much corruption this close.

Edit: crosspost somehow...oh, must have forgot to refresh browser before posting...lol

I. Larkin · Oct 21, 2008

eldar said:
Yeah, I just figured that out myself.

However I still prefer NC2 over NC1 because of the extra commerce it will bring in. NC1 gives us a buffer towards the AI but not much else, and besides we will get it right away after NC2 (4 turns...).

Also not shooting right for NC1 frees up some workers to road towards NC2 sooner, the road to Oporto via the Horses can go "slower". Incense will be great but it's not essential yet, we only need 10% Lux for 3 turns out of 4 which at this stage of a DG game is pretty good going.

I like GW plan, it is so many workers acrooss the river they will irrigate Wheat NC1 earlier. and make connection to Opporto
... As to commerce it is the same even better: River BG. It will take some time when NC2 will work on the sea.
I'd not pump much workers from NC1 and Oporto. They have to build Barracks and vet Warriors (to upgrade). Strong central location is something important...
What about idea to make name as we have? NC1, NC2...

eldar · Oct 21, 2008

Right, NC1 it will be, after getting the road for the Settler done I will split the worker team.

Then I will go Worker->Settler from Lisbon so we have a worker for NC2 right away.

[Edit] Change of heart. Settler->Settler->Worker. Gets NC2 2 turns earlier. Playing now.

eldar · Oct 21, 2008

10 turns played. We are very close (3 turrns!) from Philo and the AI don't look much like researching anything useful (except HBR and I've held back on buying that so far). We may have to take a cheap tech for Philo

>>> The Save <<<

Spoiler Turn Log :

(Pictures to follow once I'm done editing them - may be tomorrow after I've finished with the DMV! - I have pics of all the Embassy cities so we will want those at a minimum.)

I. Larkin · Oct 21, 2008

I (we) overestimate AIs. We have 2 possibilities:
1) Slow down research and wait until Poly will be at the table
2) ignore them and just take Map Making as free tech and continue
CoL, Republic.

eldar · Oct 21, 2008

I've edited the turnlog post with the 5 Embassy pics, they are all big. I am going to bed now, I have to deal with the DMV tomorrow morning, hopefully I will find time tomorrow afternoon to work up the rest of the pics I have into something presentable.

DWetzel · Oct 21, 2008

I. Larkin said:
I (we) overestimate AIs. We have 2 possibilities:
1) Slow down research and wait until Poly will be at the table
2) ignore them and just take Map Making as free tech and continue
CoL, Republic.

I vote for #1 and stockpile cash. We'll use it eventually (like, right after we get Monarchy... :rolleyes:

)

I. Larkin · Oct 21, 2008

DWetzel said:
I vote for #1 and stockpile cash. We'll use it eventually (like, right after we get Monarchy... )

Trouble is that we did not met Commercial AIs. Korea, Fraance, Greeks may have writing already.
I so many time "rely" on AI and they never help...
Nerovats up, but what other e.g. Ignas will say?

ignas · Oct 22, 2008

I suggest to wait, someone should learn Polytheism soon, for example Ottomans and Arabia like Monarchy branch very much.

I. Larkin · Oct 22, 2008

It was also my hope. But we researched much faster, (well, 5 turns faster) then my preliminary calculations. So plan is research to 2 turns before and slow down. Then when anybody get Poly trade it and get Monarchy. In priciple we can do it via big picture, but it is not that important. [Via Big picture we will get gold [not gpt] back if trade Phylo]

nerovats · Oct 22, 2008

If AI slow on research we can also keep it high ourselves. Do we want SoZ? AI aren't building yet, and have small cities. Do we want large war or start early one to just grab few cities. Will need to look at save tomorrow or later tonight to make up my mind. And some more time to read all you guys wrote. Am not quickest reader, especially in english.

DWetzel · Oct 22, 2008

I. Larkin said:
Trouble is that we did not met Commercial AIs. Korea, Fraance, Greeks may have writing already.
I so many time "rely" on AI and they never help...
Nerovats up, but what other e.g. Ignas will say?

Possibly this is all the more reason to get another curragh out and maybe meet someone that DOES have Polytheism.

I think part of the problem is that with the exception of our island, everyone so far has seemed to be on individual islands or at most with one other--so there's less early tech trading that is going on, which is slowing everything down.

eldar · Oct 22, 2008

I think we can slow down on Philo as well for a while. Right now we have just over half the available contacts, and as has been pointed out we are missing some of the "big name" Commercial ones.

SoZ will require Maths, which nobody has researched yet of course :wallbash:

Mind you we have played only 30 turns, so maybe it's not so much of a surprise. Of course if we'd risked Poly/CoL->Philo we'd have probably been beaten to it....

Anyway here's a revised dot map, the Otto city in the north has taken up all of those lake tiles so NC4 has had to be revised. I've split it into two cities, I would go Red before Blue because Blue will increase corruption in Oporto, NC1, and NC2.

However I think Yellow (aka NC3) is the first priority. Green & Pink are both marginal and there for buffer zone and territory. If we can get them, great, but the AI most likely will before we turn our eyes that way.

Spoiler 2150BC / Dot Map :

Othniel · Oct 22, 2008

When we do settle the blue dot, I wouldn't be adverse to moving it 1NE so that it is on the lake. That would make it CxC with the Otto's city, but if we take them out first, no biggie. The flip risk should be very small. Maybe we even wait to settle that dot until we take out that Otto city...

Too bad our AI contacts are researching so slow. I'm actually not surprised about the situation. With our excellent start and this being a 'pelago map, I think the normal republic sling was very possible, even on Demigod. Oh well, hindsight is 20-20 and playing the "if only" game is a little pointless now.

I think I agree with holding off on Philo for a few turns and getting some more curraghs out there to pick up contacts.

Lanzelot · Oct 22, 2008

I would still place the blue city one north of its current location. That puts another BG into its radius.

Regarding research: whenever I slowed down and waited for someone to "help" me, it didn't work out...

I'm not sure, if we won't just waste our time and then end up having to do it ourselves anyway (or even loosing Philo!)

How about finishing Philo now, taking Lit, building 1-2 Libraries and doing CoL&Rep ourselves? Or, if that takes more than 50 turns, how about taking CoL and doing a min-run on Rep?

Lanzelot

I. Larkin · Oct 22, 2008

d) Remote AIs start at isolated Islands.

5) Map: (Instruction to AlanH): Archipelago, 60% water, standard size.
Climate normal, the rest is random. Big Island of 400-600 tiles approximately is at the center of the map;
we and 2 -4 others AIs start at this Island.
Starting position has to be good: River, Cow, at least one Luxury nearby.
AIs number : the more the better, something like 20-30, but “random number”.

If Allan have followed these recomendations slow rate is not surprize. But during my trades I trade Mysticism intensively. Now 9 AIs have Mysticism. If at least one started Poly we may have it now or 5-10 turns later. Nobody revolt that early, you know. Even at Regent. We played just 40 turns. I don't want cheap sling: we do not need Map Making or Literature right now. We can't build Lib in SF City, and have no reason to send ships with troops somwhere. Take CoL as free tech? I assume that it is desperate action. Let's research to "Phylo ready nex turn" and wait some turns (5-10, say) and if somebody will research Writing before Polytheism we may reconsider.

NC4, I think may be in the place where planed. It is good spot in all sence and we may capture/destroy Osman's City later. But now we may settle. Note, that it is Barbarian Area. Do not go without supervision. Harm of Eldar's blue dot is that it will increase rank corruption in good cities. Othniel version will affect only Oporto, but still. We should build barracks and units there ASAP and curragh at Nc2. If nobody like NC4 I'd build bunch of workers and NC3.

nerovats · Oct 23, 2008

For next turnset:
America usually get's poly fast, and they have myst so they should be researching it. It is small risk, but is worth it to slow research I guess.
Think settle NC4 on the originally planned site then settle NC3 (yellow), after maybe red or pink depending of territory in north. Then later we can settle between NC4 and Oporto.

For debate:
If we gona pause research why not build chariots in stead of warriors.
Maybe as mantioned before we should just settle 2/3 more cities, then change Lisbon to Woker chariot combo. Get strong in 20 -30 turns and strike before AI start to build lot's of units. Most have some room to expand for now, if we get strong we can just take their cities. Has worked very well for me in the past.

Will most likely play tomorrow

I. Larkin · Oct 23, 2008

the best is to build Veteran Warriors and upgrade to Swords. I'd start barrakcs in NC1 and opporto as soon as possible.

Things to plan so much depend on Monarchy time that really better to wait about our decision.

But I agree, better to have just few big Cities before first strike.

I. Larkin · Oct 25, 2008

Will most likely play tomorrow

Any progress?

SGOTM 14 - Ivan

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