mabraham
Deity
No. Each data point corresponds to an uploaded save. The interpolating line means nothing.
SGOTM 14 - Kakumeika
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
No. Each data point corresponds to an uploaded save. The interpolating line means nothing.
bcool
Deity
It doesn't change the number of beakers required for AH, it adds a 20% modifier to the research we put into animal handling. So we can't switch later and get the benefits.
I got the sense that cows first was better after the sheep while I was testing, but I didn't go back since I think the results at least for the hunting question seemed pretty clear to me.
If we don't meet an AI before we start hunting (turn 33?) then I do think hunting first has a slight tech advantage since we were getting a 20% bonus for researching bronze working. However, I would rather take the risk that we are going to meet at least 1 AI and know where horses and copper are 4-5 turns earlier.
mabraham
Deity
Knowing a fifth tech (Ag, Hunting, AH, Archery, Mining) is worth an extra 20% for teching BW? I am surprised. Will test later.
bcool
Deity
Sorry, knowing a
I didn't explain myself clearly, if you look at the research numbers from my testing. In the no hunting scenario we were ahead in teching Bronze working by about 60 research (the approx value of hunting.). However being 60 ahead in Bronze working is not the same has having hunting since we get a 20% pre-req discount on BW but not hunting.
Hmm, you guys make some good points about putting off hunting until later.
I forgot that pastures are 4 turns and farms are 5.
Also, the point about the worker being near the plains hill by going sheep-->cow-->corn also makes sense.
Is there no love for scouts? I don't lose them very often, but I move them 1 space at a time usually until they get inside another civ's borders.
I'll change my vote to no on hunting first.
I did find this guide on tech_research mechanics, but it is incomplete.
Instead of telling you all the values, it directs you to look into the game files yourself.
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/tech_research.php
This might explain the tech trading anomolies I've seen:
Technology Cost = FLOOR (FLOOR (FLOOR (Base Cost * (Difficulty Modifier + 0.5 * # of teammates)) * Map Modifier) * Speed Modifier)
So a tech costs 50% more for a Two_Team AI and 100% more for a Three_Team AI.
The Three_Team AI might be seeing currency as worth twice as many beakers because they don't have it yet, but might be looking up their already researched techs and rating them worth the number of beakers we see them as. I'll continue to look into it.
I forgot that pastures are 4 turns and farms are 5.
Also, the point about the worker being near the plains hill by going sheep-->cow-->corn also makes sense.
Is there no love for scouts? I don't lose them very often, but I move them 1 space at a time usually until they get inside another civ's borders.
I'll change my vote to no on hunting first.
I did find this guide on tech_research mechanics, but it is incomplete.
Instead of telling you all the values, it directs you to look into the game files yourself.
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/tech_research.php
This might explain the tech trading anomolies I've seen:
Technology Cost = FLOOR (FLOOR (FLOOR (Base Cost * (Difficulty Modifier + 0.5 * # of teammates)) * Map Modifier) * Speed Modifier)
So a tech costs 50% more for a Two_Team AI and 100% more for a Three_Team AI.
The Three_Team AI might be seeing currency as worth twice as many beakers because they don't have it yet, but might be looking up their already researched techs and rating them worth the number of beakers we see them as. I'll continue to look into it.
bcool has me convinced. No hunting.
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We have a (near or completely) unanimous consensus for Toto moving W -> NW -> NW.
I change my vote on Hunting now due to convincing arguments by bcool, mabraham and frogdude. We now have a 7 of 8 consensus (counting a few others who changed their vote from yes to no) for no Hunting now.
That's enough for me to play the next 3 turns. I shall report on the results in a few minutes.
Sun Tzu Wu
I change my vote on Hunting now due to convincing arguments by bcool, mabraham and frogdude. We now have a 7 of 8 consensus (counting a few others who changed their vote from yes to no) for no Hunting now.
That's enough for me to play the next 3 turns. I shall report on the results in a few minutes.
Sun Tzu Wu
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The attached map image shows the new state of our game. Only the culture of our own city is revealed in the cultural view so a screen shot of it has not been attached.
Unknown Civs founded Buddhism and Hinduism in turns 5 and 6 respectively.
There appears to be more land to the West as well as North to be explored.
No new resources were revealed.
Information from the upload to the SGTOM Server:
Note: Our population (1P) is now 6.67% of the world population, so several AI Civs have capitals with 2P.
Sun Tzu Wu
Unknown Civs founded Buddhism and Hinduism in turns 5 and 6 respectively.
There appears to be more land to the West as well as North to be explored.
No new resources were revealed.
Information from the upload to the SGTOM Server:
Spoiler :
Note: Our population (1P) is now 6.67% of the world population, so several AI Civs have capitals with 2P.
Sun Tzu Wu
mabraham
Deity
1a) no hunting as above, but worker improves sheep, cow, corn, Pmine. Second worker does a chop.
1a) on T26 Bronze working 91/187 (no hunting) 3 pop 7/26 food 14/15 warrior
I compared 1) and 1a) to produce the first settler.
With 1) I got two warriors and the settler available T40 after two chops completed, city at size 4 with 12/28
, 8 
overflow, Wheel complete with 11
overflow.With 1a) I got two warriors and the settler available T40 after one chop completed, city at size 4 with 3/28
, 9 overflow, Wheel complete with 5 overflow.The different worker actions and timing make the comparison less clear, but the extra 20 chop
convert into 9, -1 and 6, so I think 1a) is better. Note that there was plenty of time to have researched Hunting and sent a worker chopping towards the deer to settle the deer+gems site T43 with a worker ready to improve the deer.I didn't bother with Hunting comparisons, since it seems we have decided against Hunting.
Still no AI contact 
At least we got the techs worked out for now. I say let Sun Tzu keep exploring with that warrior until the worker is built.
Do we know for sure what turn animals start showing up? Can we keep zig-zagging or do we need to start moving through forest/hills already?
At least we got the techs worked out for now. I say let Sun Tzu keep exploring with that warrior until the worker is built.
Do we know for sure what turn animals start showing up? Can we keep zig-zagging or do we need to start moving through forest/hills already?
mabraham
Deity
Clearly different teams have researched these religions, which is presumably good for us.
Yes the top 5 cities show at least 5 cities are size two. Since the population of the world is 15, 6 of the other 8 capitals are on size two, and so did not build worker first.
Fog gazing suggests to me that the tile 2NW of the warrior's current position is water. So the land might not extend too far to the west. The tile 1N1NW is jungle and the tile north of it is forest.
With a view to getting the deers and gems site fully explored, I think we should head west. We could go NW-SW, which will reveal any land tiles 3NW, 2NW1N, 2NW1W, but exposes our warrior to an animal. We could go W-W, which is pretty safe. We could go SW-NW (and plan more moves to the NW) which gets more vision south over the water, but since we'd be loathe to settle on the SW plains hill (it loses gems) I'm not seeing an advantage at this time (and we might never see the jungle tile). It is possible there's only a handful of land tiles to the west, and we'll be coming back this way later.
mabraham
Deity
Still no AI contact
At least we got the techs worked out for now. I say let Sun Tzu keep exploring with that warrior until the worker is built.
Do we know for sure what turn animals start showing up? Can we keep zig-zagging or do we need to start moving through forest/hills already?
Animals appeared from T6 in one of frogdude's test games, as I mentioned here at some point. So we have jeopardy for a warrior move NW.
The tile 2W1N of the gems is a lake. This is known because the tile 1W of the gems has fresh water and no river or oasis next to it (unless the mapmaker put an oasis on a plains tile). I like following the trees west to go around the lake.
bcool
Deity
Nice catch with the fresh water. Implies there is more land to the west. Making a W-W move reasonable.
I vote Toto moves W-W. While the risk of a NW move is small the price of losing Toto is very high. The benefits are minor as well. A bit more scouting that likely will happen in a few turns if we move W-W.
I vote Toto moves W-W. While the risk of a NW move is small the price of losing Toto is very high. The benefits are minor as well. A bit more scouting that likely will happen in a few turns if we move W-W.
mabraham
Deity
Well spotted. Warrior W-W seems best for now.
Manco Capac
Friday,13 June,I Collapse
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Methinks the mix of forest types in the BFC had its purpose to confuse us in our localization in the world. By now, it looks like we are in the south. But that jungle tile seems so lonely, I mean there are temperate forests all around. We are temperate climate though. Hmmm...I wished we could go NW for super gazing accross the lake (good finding shulec).
I vote for the convential but secure move west and west.
Is it I or I feel Neil put marble to induce people to shoot for culture? We have normal stone.
I vote for the convential but secure move west and west.
Is it I or I feel Neil put marble to induce people to shoot for culture? We have normal stone.
I'm happy to go along with W+W. A move NW after that to 'look back across the lake' will probably be in order after that.
There is certainly an element of 'something for everyone'. Next test will be to see if horses/bronze/iron turn up.
There is certainly an element of 'something for everyone'. Next test will be to see if horses/bronze/iron turn up.
A thought has occured to me.
Could the reason we have not contacted any AI simply be that all 16 AI scouts have been removed from the game?
It might explain why a Civ had one of their two archers removed. If that AI was nearby, the lone archer would stay behind guarding the capital instead of scouting.
It might also explain why the mapmaker gave us archery and a promotion. If all 16 AI scouts were gone, their fogbusting would be gone as well, and the barbarians would be free to spawn in larger numbers than usual.
Didn't Dorothy's house land on the wicked witch of the east and kill her?
That might explain why we start on the eastern edge of the map.
Could the reason we have not contacted any AI simply be that all 16 AI scouts have been removed from the game?
It might explain why a Civ had one of their two archers removed. If that AI was nearby, the lone archer would stay behind guarding the capital instead of scouting.
It might also explain why the mapmaker gave us archery and a promotion. If all 16 AI scouts were gone, their fogbusting would be gone as well, and the barbarians would be free to spawn in larger numbers than usual.
Didn't Dorothy's house land on the wicked witch of the east and kill her?
That might explain why we start on the eastern edge of the map.
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