SGOTM 14 - Phoenix Rising

[Gumbolt]

I think that you've managed losses very well so far My, we do have to be careful now that we're spreading ourselves so thin though. I think we've got just enough units in Asoka's hub but we could do with 5-6 more in ragnar's to take him out in a timely fashion. It's not about how many there were to begin with any more, it's about how many there are right now .

Exactly. We merely want to kill off these hubs so we can start new wars.

The mansa war is not urgent as we have a route by ship to the barb city from the captured ships.

is bulbing chemistry an idea for frigates??

 

[Mylene]

Oki, agree with the situation you guys described.
Asoki is done, we have enough Curs here to kill him off.
Rags has more units still than him, we need some more Curs here.
Mansa is going well and the reinforcements + a healer are on the way.

Don't forget we cannot take a cease fire without holding on Asoki as well, and here i don't need to pause.
His next city is due next turn.

 

[Gumbolt]

Oki, agree with the situation you guys described.
Asoki is done, we have enough Curs here to kill him off.
Rags has more units still than him, we need some more Curs here.
Mansa is going well and the reinforcements + a healer are on the way.

Don't forget we cannot take a cease fire without holding on Asoki as well, and here i don't need to pause.
His next city is due next turn.

I think we can continue war with rags and Asoka.

You just need to decide Mansa capital or the weaker outer cities. My view is clear the cities behind us for now while healer unit arrives. Let's play the odds on the caravel too.

Could we dump 2 curs off by galley to mansa land???

 

[Mylene]

AP in Timbuktu, btw
Djenne was important for his 25% defense bonus, will be easier here now.
Galley...hmm well he may surprise us with a ship.

 

[Mylene]

1 more note, i think the Mansa war was very important to get started asap.
He had dangerous tools, Galleons + AP + 25% defense.
And the sooner we get his cities, the sooner we can press out Astro and start using his cities for galleons (and maybe other troops, depending on what the Wiz has).

 

[Gumbolt]

1 more note, i think the Mansa war was very important to get started asap.
He had dangerous tools, Galleons + AP + 25% defense.
And the sooner we get his cities, the sooner we can press out Astro and start using his cities for galleons (and maybe other troops, depending on what the Wiz has).

I agree we needed to get that war started. I pushed for it earlier.

taking out the 25% was good. I have not checked for all the wonders we have captured.

The AP is useful but also a pain. While it exists there is still a small chance we could lose the game by the AP. Aztecs and Indians have spread that religion quite heavily.

If we take out the English and mongols. essentially it leaves the Aztecs/Indians with a chance at it. Actually gifting liberalism to the Ai might help here. Free religion.

As for the galley yes it has some risk but we have a caravel we could use to defend it. Overall the caravel is stopping most of his ships reaching us. He does still have 2 port cities.

A galley near English could be used to capture the 2 barb cities. We need to use whatever we have to speed up wars and speed up the reinforcements. You can bet other teams will be doing this.

What will you do with the GS? chemistry or add to the capital for science?

 

[Mylene]

I'd say we raze Timbuktu and the AP. City not really important at this point in the game, for Dom. we could re-settle that spot?

 

[Gumbolt]

I'd say we raze Timbuktu and the AP. City not really important at this point in the game, for Dom. we could re-settle that spot?

I actually think that is a good idea. We will have 3 Ai capitals by time we get that city anyway. We have plenty of other good cities too.

Are you thinking of the hidden palace anywhere?? if we get a GE we need to think how we might use that.

 

[Mylene]

^^ Not much, i think we won't have to worry about gold again

 

[lymond]

I think galleys are a waste at this point. Galleons not so much once we get Astro.

Razing Tim is an interesting idea. Is there anything else in the city worth keeping? Before we destroy AP we should try to calculate the impact. The big issue would be Monty winning the vote as leader next, but would that actually happen? Not sure.

Yep, we definitely can't ceasefire with Ragtastic until Asoka goes down. Guess we just do the best we can to hold out until reinforcements arrive.

 

[Mylene]

Good question, i think all AP votes would stop when it is destroyed.
But not sure, let's make a thread in the strat. forum?

 

[bobbyboy29]

Check if there's anything else left in timbuktu when you capture. If there's something that'll help the econ (a nice wonder, settled GM's, lots of infra like a bank or an academy maybe) then maybe you could keep it, I'd still probably raze. Razing does end all AP voting. Amusingly, timbuktu is also horribly placed. 1 off coast with clams still in the BFC.

FP should go in zululand I think, that should help out quite a bit.

 

[lymond]

Yikes...I thought Hinduism had spread around a bit. I was think that as everyone hates Monty, we might have a chance. The issue though is that that very reason has kept him from having OB with everyone else, so no Hindu spread. Monty, Gandhi, Mansa and now us are the only members. Monty would win hands down.

Yet, what does that really mean exactly. Mansa is a non-factor or soon will be. Monty and Gandhi would be at war at the same time. Only two AIs of note are actually non-members, so they cannot be bribed into war.

So, IMO the AP is really a non-factor when you think about it. I'm not sure Monty can start a war if there is no one to start it with since he and Gandhi are 1.

And if worse comes to shove, we have Hinduism and can always defy. The penalty will only affect our new cities which we will be whipping anyway.

So I say keep it. ToA will be nice to have as well. Hate to burn that.

 

[Mylene]

My main reason for burning it would be the taking no risk factor.
Your points are all valid Lymo, but the AP is pretty much the only grey zone we have now besides the Wizzie.

 

[lymond]

I really don't think we have a risk here at all.

Keep in mind too that our power exceeds all the AIs tremendously. I don't think Monty going to be looking for a battle against us. He's not even Monty anyway. Not sure who he is though. No AIs been in Wheoorn all game.

I just trying to figure out what the risk is. I don't think he can start a war against us and he cannot bribe Genghis/Lizzy into war if we attack him, because they have no Hinduism. They will likely be gone anyway.

edit: To clarify, I'm pretty sure you need voting members to have a vote. I don't think Gandhi qualifies as such since he on the same team. Monty would need some other AI -other than us - with Hinduism for the vote to come up.

 

[Gumbolt]

The problem is once indian/rags destroyed.

It leaves Mansa who is almost destroyed.

English/Mongols who are our next target.

That leaves Aztecs/Indians who have the AP vote. So how does voting work in teams? Do they get 2 votes or 1 vote.

There is a real risk there of a diplomatic AP win. I don't think it is as clear cut as Lymond paints it as we are slowly destroying the non Hindu AI.

The main issue is Monty becoming head of Ap and always voting for peace among the brothers. Our Hindu cities will get so much anger.

Destroy the city and get rid of the risk of pesky Ap votes.

 

[lymond]

Monty has no brothers.

If we attack Monty and he calls the vote, can't we just defy it.

 

[bobbyboy29]

Lymond, the risk here is the AP win vote, which is by no means an impossibility right now, it also can't be defied. If hindu spreads to one city of each non-member and monty calls a vote to win the game, he probably wins. It can spread to them through us, or by other routes... Probable, of course not . But not impossible...

And I hate ToA, useless wonder, comes too early for too little a gain. I say burn it to the ground as well!

 

[lymond]

Oh crap, I forgot about that. I wasn't even thinking AP cheese.

BURN IT!!! BURN IT REAL GOOD!!!

BURN THAT MOTHAH DOWN!!! BURN IT DOWN TO THE GROUND!!!

 

[Gumbolt]

Good question, i think all AP votes would stop when it is destroyed.
But not sure, let's make a thread in the strat. forum?

No need. Tested on our test game.

Built Ap in gilga city. Took city and razed it. Ap gone. The members voting screen vanishes too.

Okay I think we are all agreed burn it! We simply can't risk The English or Mongols getting one city with that religion. TOA is a bit pointless anyway.