SGOTM 16 - Kakumeika

[Sun Tzu Wu]

No, you can't press End turn

That's the "End Turn" of the TUN DV Voting turn. We can not press "End Turn" after the Voting results are revealed on the following turn.

I have replaced "win TUN DV" with "select and vote ..." and made other changes to clarify the meaning. The intent was to provide a link to the definitive clarification of Objective #9 by the scenario designer.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[WastinTime]

That's the "End Turn" of the TUN DV Voting turn. We can not press "End Turn" after the Voting results are revealed on the following turn.

Sun Tzu Wu

Agreed. but your previous post said we could press "end turn" after victory (results are in) and then the 'Wait, one more turn..." button. Which we can't do.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Agreed. but your previous post said we could press "end turn" after victory (results are in) and then the 'Wait, one more turn..." button. Which we can't do.

Yes, I said "win TUN DV" which implies the "End Turn" has already been done. My intention was "select and vote". I have corrected my original post to make the meaning clearer.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[LowtherCastle]

I can't figure out the CLose Borders mechanics. Sometimes I get -2 with Qin, sometimes -1 and I can't figure why.

 

[bcool]

we explored the close borders mechanics in the last Sgotm. I believe DanF and Tachy figured it out, but I can't remember all the details. It has to do with the tiles we steal from them that they should have.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11406873&postcount=1880

Here is DanF explaination, thanks to Tachy's index of lessons learned from sgotm15

 

[WastinTime]

I worried if I give Opis to Rams it might flip to Qin. Not the end of the world I suppose.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I worried if I give Opis to Rams it might flip to Qin. Not the end of the world I suppose.

Or it might flip from us to Qin. Starve it down as much as possible when/if it comes out of resistance.

===

Here's my analysis of the Qin Close Border Tension (-2), based on teh DanF link bcool gave. I think I've got it right, but who knows?

So, if I'm right, we can gift Opis and NEFish to Rams and eliminate the -2 close border tension negmods.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I worried if I give Opis to Rams it might flip to Qin. Not the end of the world I suppose.

Actually, Sippar just expanded its culture to Opis this turn with 207.50 cpt and already has 24% of the tile, so we should dominate that tile in a few turns, I think.

At 10% flipping chance, that was outrageously bad luck that it flipped on us. Next turn the chances would have been that much less and rapidly nil.

 

[LowtherCastle]

WastinTime, did we have the -2 border tension negmods with Qin on T234, 1620AD?

 

[WastinTime]

WastinTime, did we have the -2 border tension negmods with Qin on T234, 1620AD?

we dont have them even now t237

I understand the question now. yes, we did have -2 on t234

 

[WastinTime]

It seems like it will be difficult for Rams to hold Opis

 

[bcool]

We could gift Ramesses several units to make it more likely for Ramesses to hold onto Opis.

 

[WastinTime]

Is it too early to for a forced AI civic change? (T238)
Won't that mean they can change again T243 (the turn of the vote)
I'll save civic changes for next turn unless someone reports otherwise. I won't be finishing T238 today so plenty of time to decide.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Is it too early to for a forced AI civic change? (T238)
Won't that mean they can change again T243 (the turn of the vote)
I'll save civic changes for next turn unless someone reports otherwise. I won't be finishing T238 today so plenty of time to decide.

t238 is too soon for Spiritual Civs or any Civ in a Golden Age, because they will be able switch again in 5t = t243.

t238 is OK for all other Civs, because they will suffer at least one turn of Anarchy + need to wait 5t = 6t total = t244 which is too late to affect the TUN DV Vote.

Since it is difficult to know when a Civ might soon enter a Golden Age, it may be prudent to wait till t239 for changing AI civics to prevent them from doing so prior to the Vote. However, they may change civics in t238 IBT and then only espionage missions can switch them.

Religion changes are similar to civcs changes as outlined above.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[WastinTime]

After I kill Humbaba T239, do I capture the city? or just leave it alone? I've got a mega-galleon chain set up so our Units can hit Humbaba one turn and all the way down to Khurasan the next.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

After I kill Humbaba T239, do I capture the city? or just leave it alone? I've got a mega-galleon chain set up so our Units can hit Humbaba one turn and all the way down to Khurasan the next.

Depending on the Population of Humbaba's Haven which was low last time I looked, it may come out of revolt in time for our Domination Victory. Otherwise, we could raze it for pillage wealth which will enable further building of Research rather than building Wealth. It is a very old city, so it should yield substantial pillage wealth.

I would capture it either way, unless the units needed to capture can be more useful somewhere else.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[bcool]

We get the capture gold of Humbaba's city regardless of whether we raze it or not.

I leave the decision up to WastinTime, if it will complicate domination then raze it. If not keep it. Edit: okay I understand the question now. is 200 gold worth an extra turn for our units to kill the longbows too. If the units are needed no, but it is too hard to make that decision without realtime info on the war situation.

If it means more tiles and we have to give up a good city to keep it then probably razing it is better. But our culture is probably going to get most of the tiles anyways so the decision probably doesn't matter.

 

[WastinTime]

Rams now friendly w/SB (after confu switch)

This may affect him voting for SB over us. Obviously we're focusing on Qin's vote anyway.
The good news is : If for some reason Qin is our opponent, then we'll get Rams vote. Seems like we're covered.

 

[LowtherCastle]

How many visible plusmods does Rams have for SB?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Wow, WastinTime!!! Perfect playing so far!

Another Artist. Confucian spread to SB. Islamic Mosque. Sounds like T244 is in the bag.

we dont have them even now t237

I understand the question now. yes, we did have -2 on t234

Thanks for looking it up. This just tells me that my understanding of the Close Borders mechanics jibes with the T233 save. On that turn, it appears like Qin should have -2, but he doesn't. Evidently that's because Sippar just expanded its borders, giving that appearance, but the negmods only happen the next turn.

I haven't tested it, but I assume that means if we want to get rid of those negmods, we should gift Opis and NEFish to Rams the turn before the vote, just to make sure the change occurs in time. That would also give us a turn to calculate our UN votes and domination victory situation.

It seems like it will be difficult for Rams to hold Opis

I don't know what you had Sippar doing exactly, but my estimates show Qin with ~55% of the Opis city center tile on T139. That should drop to ~49% next turn (T240), with Opis out of revolt this turn (T239).

Guangzhou appears to be doing about 20cpt max on the 3 most vulnerable Qin tiles. My estimates (without seeing the current save) are that those tiles might flip to us on T245. Could be sooner or later.

After I kill Humbaba T239, do I capture the city? or just leave it alone? I've got a mega-galleon chain set up so our Units can hit Humbaba one turn and all the way down to Khurasan the next.

That will give us 3 more land tiles, right? And some population. If we happen to tie for a medal, than the victor is determined by score, in contrast to previous SGs, perhaps in keeping with the Decathlon scenario.

===

Spies in QinLand

Ningbo: 198eps; 84% success odds to revolt a civic.
Guangzhou (w/security bureau): 390eps; 61% success odds to revolt a civic
Macau: 516eps at 100%; 84% success odds(?)

It would be better to move the spy to Macau. Somewhat more expensive but far safer surviving (knock on wood), succeeding and avoiding the negmod.