SGOTM 16 - Kakumeika

[LowtherCastle]

Ok, will upload them.

REAL SAVES HERE.​

Thanks, Tachy, I got them.

 

[bcool]

I killed the galley.

Can you use the saves to tell me if I should try to bribe Hammy into the war or not by flipping him to confu?

Saladin has code of laws. he is in slavery however.

I just teching 90% of liberalism, so that we can see what Hammy is teching next before I commit to gunpowder.

 

[WastinTime]

Sal has CoL.

I thought MarbleMadness would not auto-raze at size 1 because we owned it previously. Not true?

 

[LowtherCastle]

I killed the galley.

Can you use the saves to tell me if I should try to bribe Hammy into the war or not by flipping him to confu?

Saladin has code of laws.

Good. Unfortunately, the info I was hoping to get wasn't available. We konw what Hammy's PeaceWeightRand is, but not Sitting Bull's. Hammy happens to have the right one, but only one of Sitting Bull's would push him down to Cautious.

Sorry.

I also don't like Hammy having horses, btw. They can be a PITA and he doesn't need to be building units right now. He needs to research for us.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Sal has CoL.

I thought MarbleMadness would not auto-raze at size 1 because we owned it previously. Not true?

Hm... I have no idea. I guess that could be tested. If so, it would be nice to do that right after Holy Peace.

Tested: A gifted pop1 city, re-captured, gets auto-razed.

 

[bcool]

I assume I should build knights in Drunk Pigs now. So I won't flip Hammy and I left 2 spies who can do it.

Spies for Ramesses? It is a little late for that unfortunately. I can get one in there.

Hamm started astronomy
Ramesses started Nationalism

 

[Kaitzilla]

having trouble testing the holy war. What are the requirements? Salad must NOT have any confu city? And everyone else MUST have at least one?

Four conditions for holy war to come up next vote.

1) The target must not have an AP religion city. So Saladin must not have a Confu City.

2) We must be at war with Saladin before the vote comes up.

3) There must be 2 full AP members in the world (Us and Ramesses )

4) No AP member can have a peace treaty with Saladin. (Pretty sure)

 

[Kaitzilla]

I assume I should build knights in Drunk Pigs now. So I won't flip Hammy and I left 2 spies who can do it.

Spies for Ramesses? It is a little late for that unfortunately. I can get one in there.

Hamm started astronomy
Ramesses started Nationalism

Maybe we can steal Banking from Qin? A flip to Confu for Friendly relations also works.
Darn that Hamm.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Spies for Ramesses? It is a little late for that unfortunately. I can get one in there.

Hamm started astronomy
Ramesses started Nationalism

I don't know what Ramesses spies are for either.

What are the number of turns to complete for astro and Nationalism?

 

[Kaitzilla]

We might not need holy peace if we can get another galley kill or two on Sitting Bull. Holy war on Saladin might be better and more efficient.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I don't know what Ramesses spies are for either.

What are the number of turns to complete for astro and Nationalism?

Spies for Ramesses would be for destroying a Castle I'd imagine. Those things are tough on pre-gunpowder units.

 

[LowtherCastle]

We might not need holy peace if we can get another galley kill or two on Sitting Bull. Holy war on Saladin might be better and more efficient.

I don't want Holy War on Saladin. We want him all to ourselves. But since Chartres will auto-raze, I'm not interested in Holy Peace either. LEt's accumulate SharedWar Plusmods witn Qin at no cost to ourselves.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I don't want Holy War on Saladin. We want him all to ourselves. But since Chartres will auto-raze, I'm not interested in Holy Peace either. LEt's accumulate SharedWar Plusmods witn Qin at no cost to ourselves.

Getting Hammy to Friendly with shared war isn't a bad thing either. He could tech Constitution for us after Nationalism.

 

[bcool]

9 turns for astronomy and nationalism
6 turns now for banking (was 4 pre war)

 

[LowtherCastle]

Saladin and Marble

We have several galleons and Saladin is backwards. I thnk we should send an SoD on Najran and Anjar asap for the marble. Forget Holy War, just us. Then DoW Ramesses when we have a nice set of knights. Is this crazy or doable? I guess it's a decision for WastinTime.

I would also consider gifting Ramesses Nationalism in hopes he's on track for Constitutiion. His research would rock and roll if he went to Rep+Castes. Who cares if he can draft. We take him down when we can slam him hard with strong units.

I'd also consider gifting Hammy Astro or trading for something useful.

Edit: Btw, we can't bribe Hammy to DOW someone unless he's Annoyed or worse...

xpost: 9 turns is fast, of course, Ramesses has 40% bonus on Nationalism, but still. I'd immediately trade/gift him Nationalism and hope he cruises right on to COnstitution. That also tells us if we want to delay our DoW on him.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Saladin and Marble

We have several galleons and Saladin is backwards. I thnk we should send an SoD on Najran and Anjar asap for the marble. Forget Holy War, just us. Then DoW Ramesses when we have a nice set of knights. Is this crazy or doable? I guess it's a decision for WastinTime.

I would also consider gifting Ramesses Nationalism in hopes he's on track for Constitutiion. His research would rock and roll if he went to Rep+Castes. Who cares if he can draft. We take him down when we can slam him hard with strong units.

I'd also consider gifting Hammy Astro or trading for something useful.

Btw, Hammy won't DOW someone unless he's Annoyed or worse...

xpost: 9 turns is fast, of course, Ramesses has 40% bonus on Nationalism, but still. I'd immediately trade/gift him Nationalism and hope he cruises right on to COnstitution. That also tells us if we want to delay our DoW on him.

We could certainly attack Saladin before Ramesses, but we want MoM for longer golden ages

Ramesses should just about finish Spiral Minaret for us by the time we take Thebes. 50% faster workers is also nothing to sneeze it.

I would much rather have Thebes than marble. And if I was going to attack Saladin first I'd certainly get a holy war going against him. AI capitals are always the best defended and it would take forever for Mecca to fall to anyone but us.

Giving Nationalism to Ramesses now might just get us an enemy drafting troops and ninjaing Taj from us. Maybe if we had started Taj a while back in Horse City, but not now.

 

[bcool]

gifting him Nationalism will make us lose the Taj Mahal race. It just isn't worth it for a chance he would trade us constitution. Plus I have set up the units to attack Ramesses.

Ramesses is the next war target, he is in caste and he doesn't have that many units.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Trading Partners, Part 2

I haven't looked at the map in terms of domination, but we should also consider how to get domination without DoWing our trading partners, if that's possible. Such as taking all of Sal's and SB's land. That way we can continually gift our trading partners up and not worry about how advanced they get.

 

[bcool]

Okay I played until the beginning of T186 uploading momentarily... report will follow

Spoiler :

Turn 183, 1230 AD: Confucianism has spread in Mari.
Turn 183, 1230 AD: Confucianism has spread in Tours.
Turn 183, 1230 AD: The borders of Corn Pigs Fish have expanded!
Turn 183, 1230 AD: The borders of Drunk Pigs have expanded!
Turn 183, 1230 AD: The borders of NW Fish City have expanded!
Turn 183, 1230 AD: The borders of Bagacum have expanded!
Turn 183, 1230 AD: The borders of Gergovia have expanded!

Turn 184, 1240 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Marble Madness!
Turn 184, 1240 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Marble Madness!
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Orleans can hurry Buddhist Temple for 2⇴ with 46ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Corn Pigs Fish has grown to size 7.
Turn 184, 1240 AD: TrojanHorse can hurry Confucian Missionary for 1⇴ with 2ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 37 turns.
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Lyons has grown to size 6.
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Lyons can hurry Moai Statues for 2⇴ with 17ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 58 turns.
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Deer Pigs Fish has grown to size 6.
Turn 184, 1240 AD: NE_NP_to_be can hurry National Epic for 2⇴ with 11ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 21 turns.
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Tolosa has grown to size 5.
Turn 184, 1240 AD: NW Fish City has grown to size 4.
Turn 184, 1240 AD: NW Fish City can hurry Courthouse for 2⇴ with 13ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 47 turns.
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Tours can hurry Granary for 2⇴ with 25ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Qin Shi Huang will trade Guilds
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Ramesses II will trade Music
Turn 184, 1240 AD: You have discovered Guilds!
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Qin Shi Huang has declared war on Sitting Bull!
Turn 184, 1240 AD: You have discovered Music!
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Louis XIV's Galleon 5 (Corn Pigs Fish ) (4.00) vs Sitting Bull's Galley (2.40)
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Combat Odds: 96.2%
Turn 184, 1240 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 184, 1240 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Sitting Bull's Galley is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Sitting Bull's Galley is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Louis XIV's Galleon 5 (Corn Pigs Fish ) is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Sitting Bull's Galley is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Sitting Bull's Galley is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Louis XIV's Galleon 5 (Corn Pigs Fish ) has defeated Sitting Bull's Galley!
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Your Galleon 5 (Corn Pigs Fish ) has destroyed a Galley!
Turn 184, 1240 AD: You have plundered 4ℴ from the Fishing Boats!
Turn 184, 1240 AD: TrojanHorse will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Camulodunum will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Tolosa will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Bibracte will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Vienne will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 184, 1240 AD: You have constructed a Granary in Tours. Work has now begun on Christian Missionary.
Turn 184, 1240 AD: Buddhism has spread in Alemanni.
Turn 184, 1240 AD: St. Augustine (Great Prophet) has been born in Thebes (Ramesses II)!

Turn 185, 1250 AD: Paris can hurry Confucian Academy for 3⇴ with 25ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: Orleans can hurry Confucian Academy for 4⇴ with 40ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: Corn Pigs Fish can hurry Worker for 2⇴ with 36ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 66 turns.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: Drunk Pigs can hurry Knight for 1⇴ with 39ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: TrojanHorse has grown to size 3.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: Lyons can hurry Moai Statues for 1⇴ with 15ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 57 turns.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: Tolosa has grown to size 6.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: Bibracte has grown to size 7.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: Vienne has grown to size 6.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: Vienne can hurry Library for 1⇴ with 10ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 24 turns.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: Qin Shi Huang is the worst enemy of Sitting Bull.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: Sitting Bull is the worst enemy of Qin Shi Huang.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: The borders of Lyons are about to expand.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: The borders of Bibracte are about to expand.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Bibracte.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: Iron City will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: NE_NP_to_be will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: NW Fish City will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: NEFish will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: You have trained a Worker in Corn Pigs Fish . Work has now begun on Globe Theatre.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: The borders of Lyons have expanded!
Turn 185, 1250 AD: You have constructed Moai Statues in Lyons. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.
Turn 185, 1250 AD: Deer Pigs Fish can no longer work on Moai Statues. The lost ℤ is converted into 81ℴ!
Turn 185, 1250 AD: NW Fish City can no longer work on Moai Statues. The lost ℤ is converted into 90ℴ!
Turn 185, 1250 AD: The borders of Bibracte have expanded!

Turn 186, 1260 AD: Iron City has grown to size 5.
Turn 186, 1260 AD: NE_NP_to_be has grown to size 5.
Turn 186, 1260 AD: NW Fish City has grown to size 3.
Turn 186, 1260 AD: NW Fish City can hurry Library for 1⇴ with 12ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 55 turns.
Turn 186, 1260 AD: Bibracte can hurry Salon for 2⇴ with 17ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 19 turns.
Turn 186, 1260 AD: NEFish has grown to size 4.
Turn 186, 1260 AD: NEFish can hurry Library for 2⇴ with 24ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 30 turns.
Turn 186, 1260 AD: Tours can hurry Christian Missionary for 1⇴ with 16ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 18 turns.
Turn 186, 1260 AD: Isca will be pacified on the next turn.
Turn 186, 1260 AD: Confucianism has spread in Macau.

Okay some details got past me and I apologize. Mostly I messed up the resource trades and that had a big impact because I couldn't beg from Sitting Bull to prevent the DoW.
Paris is unhealthy and perhaps I should have canceled our 8 gold for deer trade earlier. But now we can cancel a much cheaper deer trade.

Tech update
Liberalism is 90% complete
I finished Printing Press in 2 turns then went 0% for most of the turnset. I went 100% on the last 2 turns which got us 90% of liberalism and 90% of gunpowder.
I traded for Guilds and Music
I got a total about about 320 gold from our maps (I don't believe any AI values our maps anymore)
Moai finished got ~200 failure gold from that.
I cancelled all of Tachy's GPT trades.

Military
killed off Brennus, kept his last 2 cities because they had courthouses
foolishly lost an archer, warrior, and crossbow and 2 workers trying to get gems built a turn too early.
no losses in conquest of Brennus.

set up to invade Ramesses with a small but elite force 6 maces, 2 crossbows, a knight, 4 treb 3 catapult (need to confirm those numbers)
We probably should whip a pike for the war chariots, or build one in DP.

2 chariots scouted most of Ramesses lands we probably need more to take him, but he is a bit weak it seems. He is in caste so we might have a chance to hit him hard before he can mount a significant defense.

I have a spy on a galleon that could get into Thebes this turn. We probably need to switch our eps to Ramesses if we want to do a city revolt there with the spy.

Exploration
Rowboat found more fish down south of Bagacum.
HH harbour founded, nothing we didn't know about there (fish and crab)

Culture
2 buddhist temples finished, 2 ready to be whipped (one in Orleans for OF into wallstreet perhaps other one in vienne I believe)
2 confu cathedral started
Hermitage built in Orleans

workers
tachy's farm chain almost finished
built a few roads to make executive spreading easier
finished only 1 workshop, but built several additional farms to accelerate growth a bit and in anticipation of biology
improved gems

diplomacy
cleverly got sitting bull to DoW us
bribed Qin into war with Sitting bull
gived Marble madness to Saladin
canceled horses to Hamm to prevent him form mass buiding knights.

I believe Thebes and Babylon are building wonders

 

[LowtherCastle]

gifting him Nationalism will make us lose the Taj Mahal race. It just isn't worth it for a chance he would trade us constitution. Plus I have set up the units to attack Ramesses.

Ramesses is the next war target, he is in caste and he doesn't have that many units.

Well, I can't see what you've got going, but I would plan to capture

1. Najran
2. Anjar

asap to get that marble tile. Like WastinTime said, we need to be able to trade Nationalism asap and we need the marble to speed up Taj Mahal.

Capturing Thebes at the same time is fine with me, if we can do it. I wouldn't bother with Elephantine first. I'd go straight at Thebes from 2NW, as Tachy was discussing a long time ago. I hope we have the units to do it. Have you sent a chariot scout ahead?

xpost