SGOTM 16 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

[Ronnie1]

OK, back to getting Oracle T68 same turn as Pottery in Orleans! Built worker and 2 pop whipped as C63 advised.

At the start of T69, we have 8 warriors if no one dies.
We have 4 workers.
We have 23 hammers invested in anything we want in Paris at size 4.
We have a Chariot with 16/30 hammers in the que in Orleans at size 4 and 14 hammers available this turn.
Lyons is size 3 with 8 hammers invested in something.

 

[adrianj]

That sounds great to me Ron. I'm confident you have a good handle on things.

Is it possible to trade 2 warriors for a chariot instead?

Can we see some more detail, eg, Autolog?

 

[Ronnie1]

Here is the autolog.

@C63, the 2 pop whip in Paris is on the current settler for city #3. It grows back too slowly to be ready to whip again before the Oracle. Orleans on the other hand has lots of food and forest hills to chop/mine.

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)

Turn 50/500 (2000 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:08:16]
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 12 per turn, 24 in the bank

Turn 51/500 (1960 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:08:56]
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 12 per turn, 36 in the bank

After End Turn:
Orleans grows to size 3
Orleans finishes: Work Boat

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 52/500 (1920 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:10:46]

Turn 52/500 (1920 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:09:30]
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 13 per turn, 48 in the bank

Turn 53/500 (1880 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:10:46]
A Fishing Boats was built near Orleans
100% Research: 16 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -3 per turn, 61 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Paris
Paris finishes: Settler
Orleans finishes: Warrior

Turn 54/500 (1840 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:11:24]
Paris begins: Worker (9 turns)
Orleans begins: Warrior (3 turns)
100% Research: 16 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -4 per turn, 58 in the bank

Turn 55/500 (1800 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:12:08]
Paris begins: Warrior (4 turns)
Lyons founded
Lyons begins: Warrior (15 turns)
100% Research: 19 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -7 per turn, 54 in the bank

After End Turn:
Orleans grows to size 4

Turn 56/500 (1760 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:13:01]
100% Research: 20 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 47 in the bank

After End Turn:
Orleans finishes: Warrior

Other Player Actions:
While defending in the wild near Tartar, Warrior (1.10/2) defeats Barbarian Warrior (Prob Victory: 97.0%)

Turn 57/500 (1720 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:13:38]
Warrior promoted: Woodsman I
Orleans begins: Warrior (2 turns)
Orleans begins: Chariot (4 turns)
100% Research: 20 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 39 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
State Religion Change: Ramesses II (Egypt) from 'no State Religion' to 'Buddhism'
Attitude Change: Brennus (Celtia) towards Ramesses II (Egypt), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 58/500 (1680 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:14:21]
100% Research: 20 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 31 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Meditation
Paris grows to size 3

Other Player Actions:
While defending in the wild near Tartar, Warrior 3 (Paris) (1.70/2) defeats Barbarian Warrior (Prob Victory: 96.7%)

Turn 59/500 (1640 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:14:55]
Research begun: Priesthood (3 Turns)
Orleans begins: Worker (5 turns)
100% Research: 21 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 23 in the bank

After End Turn:
Lyons's borders expand

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Brennus (Celtia) towards SBOTM16 Test.2 (France), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 60/500 (1600 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:15:58]
A Farm was built near Lyons
Orleans begins: Worker (5 turns)
100% Research: 21 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 15 in the bank

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 60/500 (1600 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:17:10]

Turn 61/500 (1560 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:16:24]
A Farm was built near Lyons

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 59/500 (1640 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:17:44]
Research begun: Priesthood (3 Turns)
Orleans begins: Worker (5 turns)
100% Research: 21 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 23 in the bank

After End Turn:
Lyons's borders expand

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Brennus (Celtia) towards SBOTM16 Test.2 (France), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 60/500 (1600 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:18:25]
A Farm was built near Lyons
100% Research: 20 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 15 in the bank

Turn 61/500 (1560 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:18:45]
A Farm was built near Paris
100% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -7 per turn, 7 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Orleans
Tech research finished: Priesthood
Paris finishes: Warrior
Orleans finishes: Worker
Lyons grows to size 2

Turn 62/500 (1520 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:19:15]
Orleans begins: The Oracle (50 turns)
Research begun: Pottery (4 Turns)
Paris begins: Warrior (4 turns)
100% Research: 20 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 63/500 (1480 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:20:13]
60% Research: 12 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
40% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Paris
Paris grows to size 4
Orleans grows to size 3

Turn 64/500 (1440 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:20:43]
60% Research: 12 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
40% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Lyons finishes: Warrior

Other Player Actions:
Judaism founded in a distant land

Turn 65/500 (1400 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:21:43]
Lyons begins: Warrior (8 turns)could be anything
50% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
50% Gold: 2 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris finishes: Worker

Other Player Actions:
While defending in the wild near Lyons, Warrior (1.74/2) defeats Barbarian Warrior (Prob Victory: 99.4%)

Turn 66/500 (1360 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:23:05]
Paris begins: Chariot (5 turns)Could be anything
50% Research: 10 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
50% Gold: 0 per turn, 2 in the bank

After End Turn:
Lyons grows to size 3

Turn 67/500 (1320 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:23:55]
A Mine was built near Orleans
50% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
50% Gold: 1 per turn, 2 in the bank

After End Turn:
Orleans grows to size 4

Turn 68/500 (1280 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:24:36]
50% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
50% Gold: 1 per turn, 3 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Pottery
Orleans finishes: The Oracle

Turn 69/500 (1240 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:25:04]
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Metal Casting

There is some overlap in the autolog from reloading to try different things. But I am going to get it ironed out before I play. I also propose playing to the completion of the Oracle or if it is built somewhere else.

 

[Ronnie1]

Even slightly better! Oracle T68 with only 1 forest chopped!

At the start of T69, we have 6 warriors if no one dies.
We have 2 Chariots
We have 4 workers.
We have 25 hammers invested in anything(settler) we want in Paris at size 4.
We have a 0 hammers invested in Orleans at size 4, no overflow and 5 hammers available this turn.
Lyons is size 3 with 8 hammers invested in something(chariot).


Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 49/500 (2040 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:56:23]
Research begun: Meditation (7 Turns)
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 12 per turn, 12 in the bank

Turn 50/500 (2000 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:58:16]
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 12 per turn, 24 in the bank

Turn 51/500 (1960 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:58:52]
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 12 per turn, 36 in the bank

After End Turn:
Orleans grows to size 3
Orleans finishes: Work Boat

Turn 52/500 (1920 BC) [09-Oct-2012 16:59:30]
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 13 per turn, 48 in the bank

Turn 53/500 (1880 BC) [09-Oct-2012 17:00:06]
A Fishing Boats was built near Orleans
100% Research: 16 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -3 per turn, 61 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Paris
Paris finishes: Settler
Orleans finishes: Warrior

Turn 54/500 (1840 BC) [09-Oct-2012 17:08:01]
Paris begins: Worker (9 turns)
Orleans begins: Chariot (6 turns)
100% Research: 16 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -4 per turn, 58 in the bank

Turn 55/500 (1800 BC) [09-Oct-2012 17:08:14]
Lyons founded
Lyons begins: Warrior (15 turns)
100% Research: 19 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -7 per turn, 54 in the bank

After End Turn:
Orleans grows to size 4

Other Player Actions:
While defending in the wild near Lyons, Warrior (1.10/2) defeats Barbarian Warrior (Prob Victory: 97.0%)

Turn 56/500 (1760 BC) [09-Oct-2012 17:08:57]
Warrior promoted: Woodsman I
100% Research: 20 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 47 in the bank

Turn 57/500 (1720 BC) [09-Oct-2012 17:09:31]
100% Research: 19 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 39 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris finishes: Worker

Turn 58/500 (1680 BC) [09-Oct-2012 17:09:49]
Paris begins: Chariot (30 turns)
100% Research: 20 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 31 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Meditation
Orleans finishes: Chariot

Other Player Actions:
While defending in the wild near Tartar, Warrior 3 (Paris) (1.40/2) defeats Barbarian Warrior (Prob Victory: 96.7%)

Turn 59/500 (1640 BC) [09-Oct-2012 17:10:39]
Research begun: Priesthood (3 Turns)
Orleans begins: Worker (5 turns)
100% Research: 21 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 23 in the bank

After End Turn:
Lyons's borders expand

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Brennus (Celtia) towards SBOTM16 Test.2 (France), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Brennus (Celtia) towards Ramesses II (Egypt), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 60/500 (1600 BC) [09-Oct-2012 17:11:26]
A Farm was built near Paris
A Farm was built near Lyons
100% Research: 20 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 15 in the bank

Turn 61/500 (1560 BC) [09-Oct-2012 17:11:44]
100% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -7 per turn, 7 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Orleans
Tech research finished: Priesthood
Paris grows to size 3
Orleans finishes: Worker
Lyons grows to size 2

Turn 62/500 (1520 BC) [09-Oct-2012 17:12:12]
Research begun: Pottery (5 Turns)
Orleans begins: The Oracle (50 turns)
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 12 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Orleans grows to size 3

Turn 63/500 (1480 BC) [09-Oct-2012 17:13:14]
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 12 per turn, 12 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Paris

Turn 64/500 (1440 BC) [09-Oct-2012 17:13:43]
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 12 per turn, 24 in the bank

After End Turn:
Lyons finishes: Warrior

Other Player Actions:
Judaism founded in a distant land

Turn 65/500 (1400 BC) [09-Oct-2012 17:14:07]
Lyons begins: Chariot (15 turns)
100% Research: 21 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -10 per turn, 36 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris grows to size 4

Turn 66/500 (1360 BC) [09-Oct-2012 17:16:00]
A Mine was built near Orleans
100% Research: 20 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -9 per turn, 26 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris finishes: Chariot
Lyons grows to size 3

Turn 67/500 (1320 BC) [09-Oct-2012 17:16:17]
Paris begins: Settler (9 turns)
100% Research: 20 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -10 per turn, 17 in the bank

Turn 68/500 (1280 BC) [09-Oct-2012 17:17:00]
80% Research: 19 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: -7 per turn, 7 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Pottery
Orleans grows to size 4
Orleans finishes: The Oracle

Other Player Actions:
State Religion Change: Ramesses II (Egypt) from 'no State Religion' to 'Buddhism'

Turn 69/500 (1240 BC) [09-Oct-2012 17:20:13]
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Metal Casting

 

[Ronnie1]

Final PPP

See autolog above!

Other stop actions would include a mass barb uprising or anything that is completely unexpected.

 

[adrianj]

It all looks good to me.

I also propose playing to the completion of the Oracle...

I'm all for the turn set to go this far since you've got a good understanding of what's going on right up to the Oracle build. Just that 20 turns is quite a stretch for the early game. Could we insert a day or two pause in there?

 

[Ozbenno]

Also looks good to me.

 

[timmy827]

My gut feel is
1) I'd be hesitant to whip the settler in Paris since its relatively slow growing. 2 citizens become 60 hammers but its 50 food to grow them back, not a lot better than the direct 1:1 conversion. And I don't see a big rush to found city 3, we sort of want to cottage it but can't for a while because of tech order
2) I'd rather build Oracle in Paris and save Orleans forests for a Great Lighthouse attempt. But if only 1 is chopped guess that isn't a big deal.

But...more unexpected stuff came up today and I can't really play around with alternates in anything like the detail Ronnie just did (really appreciate that effort and reporting). So I think that is fine. Gut feel shall yield to mountains of unanswered evidence

 

[McArine]

PPP looks good to me too.
I'm also fine with playing to Oracle.

 

[Sleepless]

@Ron how near are you to our 4th settler. In my test games I had 4 cities settled although Rheims was only just settled. Might be the reason I was a couple of turns behind you?

 

[Conquistador 63]

My gut feel is
1) I'd be hesitant to whip the settler in Paris since its relatively slow growing. 2 citizens become 60 hammers but its 50 food to grow them back, not a lot better than the direct 1:1 conversion. And I don't see a big rush to found city 3, we sort of want to cottage it but can't for a while because of tech order
2) I'd rather build Oracle in Paris and save Orleans forests for a Great Lighthouse attempt. But if only 1 is chopped guess that isn't a big deal.

But...more unexpected stuff came up today and I can't really play around with alternates in anything like the detail Ronnie just did (really appreciate that effort and reporting). So I think that is fine. Gut feel shall yield to mountains of unanswered evidence

Agree with timmy on all accounts, including the part "not having playtested".

Just wanted to point out that city3 can have its wheat farmed and maybe a hill mined while we wait to learn pottery.

Also think it is important to build/whip a forge somewhere ASAP (after MC is in, ofc) and run an engineer 100% of the time, to get us a GE for Mids. IMO we should gamble with GPP odds and get it faster in the Oracle city. Even if we luck out and get a Prophet it wouldn't be a complete waste, given this game's objectives. Anyways, stuff for the following turnset.

 

[Sleepless]

I had another little very quick run through with the new test save. I let Paris slow build the settler then a chariot with a big overflow to the Oracle build. Orleans on a settler. Now it still needs alot of tweaking and reduce the time it takes to tech pottery by one but Paris for the Oracle whilst Orleans does settler/workers seems better to me??

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 49/500 (2040 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:11:26]
Research begun: Meditation (7 Turns)
100% Research: 15 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -3 per turn, 12 in the bank

Turn 50/500 (2000 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:12:08]
100% Research: 15 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -3 per turn, 9 in the bank

Turn 51/500 (1960 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:12:31]
100% Research: 15 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -3 per turn, 6 in the bank

After End Turn:
Orleans grows to size 3
Orleans finishes: Work Boat

Turn 52/500 (1920 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:13:12]
100% Research: 16 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -3 per turn, 3 in the bank

Turn 53/500 (1880 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:13:42]
A Fishing Boats was built near Orleans
100% Research: 17 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -3 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Orleans finishes: Warrior

Turn 54/500 (1840 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:14:03]
Orleans begins: Settler (9 turns)
Orleans begins: Worker (5 turns)
80% Research: 13 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
While defending in the wild, Warrior (1.40/2) defeats Barbarian Warrior (Prob Victory: 99.7%)

Turn 55/500 (1800 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:14:36]
Warrior promoted: Woodsman I
80% Research: 13 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Meditation

Turn 56/500 (1760 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:14:55]
Research begun: Priesthood (6 Turns)
80% Research: 13 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris finishes: Settler

Turn 57/500 (1720 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:15:11]
Paris begins: Chariot (5 turns)
80% Research: 13 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
While defending in the wild, Warrior (1.62/2) defeats Barbarian Warrior (Prob Victory: 97.6%)

Turn 58/500 (1680 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:15:42]
A Mine was built near Paris
80% Research: 15 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Orleans finishes: Worker

Turn 59/500 (1640 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:16:18]
Orleans begins: Settler (9 turns)
Lyons founded
Lyons begins: Chariot (30 turns)
80% Research: 16 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: -3 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Brennus (Celtia) towards SBOTM16 Test.2 (France), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Brennus (Celtia) towards Ramesses II (Egypt), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 60/500 (1600 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:17:09]
60% Research: 13 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
40% Gold: 1 per turn, 1 in the bank

Turn 61/500 (1560 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:17:42]
60% Research: 12 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
40% Gold: 1 per turn, 2 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Priesthood
Paris finishes: Chariot

Turn 62/500 (1520 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:17:59]
Research begun: Pottery (7 Turns)
Paris begins: The Oracle (13 turns)
60% Research: 12 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
40% Gold: 1 per turn, 3 in the bank

Turn 63/500 (1480 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:18:25]
A Farm was built near Paris
60% Research: 12 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
40% Gold: 1 per turn, 4 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris grows to size 5
Lyons's borders expand

Turn 64/500 (1440 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:18:42]
60% Research: 12 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
40% Gold: 0 per turn, 5 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Judaism founded in a distant land

Turn 65/500 (1400 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:19:35]
A Farm was built near Lyons
60% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
40% Gold: -1 per turn, 5 in the bank

After End Turn:
Lyons grows to size 2

Turn 66/500 (1360 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:19:57]
60% Research: 12 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
40% Gold: 0 per turn, 4 in the bank

Turn 67/500 (1320 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:20:41]
60% Research: 12 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
40% Gold: 0 per turn, 4 in the bank

After End Turn:
Orleans finishes: Settler

Turn 68/500 (1280 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:21:29]
Orleans begins: Worker (5 turns)
A Mine was built near Lyons
60% Research: 12 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
40% Gold: 0 per turn, 4 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Pottery
Paris finishes: The Oracle

Turn 69/500 (1240 BC) [10-Oct-2012 15:22:22]
Research begun: Writing (9 Turns)
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Metal Casting
Paris begins: Forge (5 turns)

It do think we need more discussion on this before we start?? Also think a stopping point perhaps after meditation or priesthood is discovered would be a good idea.

 

[Sleepless]

Also think it is important to build/whip a forge somewhere ASAP (after MC is in, ofc) and run an engineer 100% of the time, to get us a GE for Mids. IMO we should gamble with GPP odds and get it faster in the Oracle city. Even if we luck out and get a Prophet it wouldn't be a complete waste, given this game's objectives. Anyways, stuff for the following turnset.

Totally in agreement with going for the Mids but Paris with a forge + chops could probably build it quckly without using a GE. Better off using our GPs for other things. Note not sure how true it is in the real game but in the test no-one had built any other wonders.

 

[Ronnie1]

I thought about slow building the settler in Paris also, however, in the time it takes to slow build the settler, whipping produces a settler AND a worker. With nothing else really to build in Paris + adding the floodplain farm, it regrows fast enough IMO.

I found Lyons 4 turns sooner than slow building. Remember, don't judge Lyons on its 1st 4 turns, judge it somewhere near the last 4 turns of the game! 4 turns even in the middle of the game working 5 cottages + mines is worth significantly more.

I honestly do not see much more reason to debate this. Orleans is definitely our strongest city.

I will wait a bit longer, and play with the test game some more. But to change my current thinking, I would really like to see something better than an equivalent Oracle date and 4 turns SLOWER to 3rd city.

 

[Ronnie1]

It looks like Rheims(city4) is 2-3 turns slower to found in my scenario. Looking to improve that through more chopping.

I am also continuing to look at the no whip Paris option. Limited success, but still trying to improve on sleepless's plan.

 

[Ronnie1]

Totally in agreement with going for the Mids but Paris with a forge + chops could probably build it quckly without using a GE. Better off using our GPs for other things. Note not sure how true it is in the real game but in the test no-one had built any other wonders.

Where do we slot Masonry? Before or after Writing?

 

[Sleepless]

Where do we slot Masonry? Before or after Writing?

I would go writing first after pottery as all our cities will benefit from a library build and will speed up masonry (probably) but certainly future techs.

 

[Conquistador 63]

I would say pottery/writing/sailing/masonry so Orleans could get started on lh/glh. Or will we risk going for Alpha and get the last ones by trade?

 

[adrianj]

How about we assess the tech situation after we have the Oracle...

@Sleepless - Paris building Oracle "seems better"? I don't quite follow.

to change my current thinking, I would really like to see something better than an equivalent Oracle date and 4 turns SLOWER to 3rd city.

As would I.

 

[Ronnie1]

I think I found a really great compromise!

The Bad....
Oracle is 1 turn later, T69
Lyons is founded 1 turn later, T56
Fewer workers, only 2, but only 2 turns from having 3, still less than the other plan where I had 4
Orleans is smaller, size 3

The Good....
Rheims is founded much earlier, T67
Only 1 forest chopped for Oracle
More Units, 7 warriors, 2 chariots, and a WB for Rheims.
Paris is bigger, size 5.

Spoiler :

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 49/500 (2040 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:38:21]
Research begun: Meditation (7 Turns)
100% Research: 15 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -3 per turn, 12 in the bank

Turn 50/500 (2000 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:39:19]
100% Research: 15 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -3 per turn, 9 in the bank

Turn 51/500 (1960 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:40:00]
100% Research: 15 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -3 per turn, 6 in the bank

After End Turn:
Orleans grows to size 3
Orleans finishes: Work Boat

Turn 52/500 (1920 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:40:22]
100% Research: 16 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -3 per turn, 3 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
While defending in the wild, Warrior (0.08/2) defeats Barbarian Warrior (Prob Victory: 90.1%)

Turn 53/500 (1880 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:40:52]
Warrior promoted: Woodsman I
A Fishing Boats was built near Orleans
100% Research: 17 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -3 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Orleans finishes: Warrior

Turn 54/500 (1840 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:42:46]
Orleans begins: Chariot (6 turns)
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 14 per turn, 14 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris finishes: Settler

Turn 55/500 (1800 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:43:10]
Paris begins: Warrior (3 turns)
100% Research: 17 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -3 per turn, 28 in the bank

After End Turn:
Orleans grows to size 4

Turn 56/500 (1760 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:44:24]
Lyons founded
Lyons begins: Warrior (15 turns)
100% Research: 21 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 25 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Meditation
Paris finishes: Warrior

Turn 57/500 (1720 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:45:28]
Research begun: Priesthood (4 Turns)
Paris begins: Chariot (15 turns)
100% Research: 20 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 17 in the bank

Turn 58/500 (1680 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:46:40]
100% Research: 21 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 9 in the bank

After End Turn:
Orleans finishes: Chariot

Turn 59/500 (1640 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:47:11]
Orleans begins: Settler (8 turns)
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 14 per turn, 1 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris grows to size 5

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Brennus (Celtia) towards SBOTM16 Test.2 (France), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Brennus (Celtia) towards Ramesses II (Egypt), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 60/500 (1600 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:51:25]
100% Research: 21 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 15 in the bank

After End Turn:
Lyons's borders expand

Turn 61/500 (1560 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:51:26]
A Farm was built near Lyons
50% Research: 10 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
50% Gold: 2 per turn, 7 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Priesthood

Turn 62/500 (1520 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:52:18]
Research begun: Pottery (8 Turns)
A Mine was built near Paris
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 11 per turn, 9 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris finishes: Chariot
Lyons grows to size 2

Turn 63/500 (1480 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:53:28]
Paris begins: The Oracle (8 turns)
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 13 per turn, 20 in the bank

Turn 64/500 (1440 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:54:21]
100% Research: 19 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -7 per turn, 33 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Orleans
Orleans finishes: Settler

Turn 65/500 (1400 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:54:58]
Orleans begins: Worker (7 turns)
Orleans begins: Work Boat (15 turns)
100% Research: 19 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -8 per turn, 26 in the bank

After End Turn:
Orleans grows to size 3
Orleans finishes: Work Boat
Lyons finishes: Warrior

Turn 66/500 (1360 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:55:45]
Orleans begins: Worker (5 turns)
Lyons begins: Chariot (15 turns)
100% Research: 20 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -11 per turn, 18 in the bank

Turn 67/500 (1320 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:56:52]
Rheims founded
Rheims begins: Work Boat (15 turns)
50% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
50% Gold: -3 per turn, 7 in the bank

After End Turn:
Lyons grows to size 3

Other Player Actions:
Judaism founded in a distant land

Turn 68/500 (1280 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:59:03]
50% Research: 12 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
50% Gold: -3 per turn, 4 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Pottery
Paris finishes: The Oracle

Turn 69/500 (1240 BC) [10-Oct-2012 13:59:33]
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Metal Casting
Paris begins: Forge (6 turns)
Research begun: Writing (17 Turns)