SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts

Edit: As for when I'd like to play next, I'd prefer if it wasn't something that had room for too much controversy. I think this debate got a bit too heated for my liking

It is important to get all ideas on the table. Differences of opinion are inevitable. And by the way, it looks like we are headed for the naval invasion which you first proposed!

And yes - in the post-game review play it out with screenshots please. I am quite interested to see how it turns out.
 
Pre Play Plan

Play 6 turns, to Engineering, at sustainable 60% research.

1. Technologies

Engineering.

Ramesses II has Theology but doesn't feel like trading it away yet. Check every turn to see if he will trade. Stop if true.

Sell Metal Casting to everyone except Brennus for a pittance, to allow better trades later.

Check every turn for new technology trading possibilities. Stop if anything interesting arises.

2. Dealing with AI

Refuse demands from Brennus, Ramesses II, and Saladin. Consider demands from others if interesting, but likely refuse.

Check every turn to see if Brennus can be bribed into war with Ramesses II. Stop if true.

Continue focusing espionage on Qin.

Local spy continues to counter espionage. Remote spy continues exploring.

3. City placement and builds

No new cities this set.

4. General micro

Builds. All the ??? can be decided in the next turnset. This shows 5 turns of builds, since 1 turns will be revolutionary.
Paris: Finish crossbowman -> start catapult -> whip catapult -> start mace -> whip mace -> start ???
GP Farm: Whip harbor -> start spear -> whip spear -> start mace -> whip mace -> start ???
Production: Whip catapult -> start catapult -> whip catapult -> start mace -> whip mace -> start ???
Commerce: Start catapult -> whip catapult -> start mace -> whip mace -> start mace -> whip mace
Clams: Finish spear -> start catapult -> whip catapult -> start mace -> whip mace -> start ???
West Fish: finish galleon -> start galleon -> whip galleon
Barb City: finish crossbow -> start catapult -> whip catapult -> start spear -> whip spear -> start ???
Zhou: finish lighthouse -> start galleon -> whip galleon...
Fake Humbaba: why did we settle this city? Switch to galleon, whip when possible.
West Coast Silk: finish barracks -> start mace -> whip mace
Wheat: finish barracks -> start mace -> whip mace
Red Fish Blue Fish: continue building granary, whip when possible

Tiles
Micro Paris to grow on first turn.
Run specialists in GP Farm at all costs. Do not whip below 5 (2 scientists, 1 engineer, fish, pig)
Do not whip Commerce below 8

Workers
Workers 1&7: finish chop, move 1S, road East to connect Verlamion attack point.
Huacan Worker: Rename to Worker 9. Finish mine, move 1 NE & road, connecting West Coast Silk to Brennus' road network, help build road to Verlamion attack point.
Worker 3 & Teo worker: Rename Teo to Worker 10 & road north from Commerce to Production.
Worker 2: continue building workshops for Zhou
Workers 5&6: road south from Commerce to Tolosa
Worker 8: road south from Barb City to Wheat

5. Civics and Religion

Infect Beijing with Buddhism.

Revolt to Hereditary Rule and Bureaucracy immediately.

6. War

Scouting
Galley 1 with Chariot 6 to explore Ramesses II territory, hoping to find Brennus' stack -> Galley 1 return to take Buddhist missionary to Zhou.
Chariots 1&10 heads west searching for Brennus' stack.
Spy and caravels on foreign continent continue exploring, hoping to circumnavigate.
Triremes 1&4, Chariot 12 barb fogbusting and fighting duty.
Trireme 3 explore the north.

Bribing
Check every turn to see if Brennus can be bribed to attack Ramesses II.

7. Bigger picture

Not much here for such a short turnset. Here is the army composition:

Current Force:

0 catapult, 0 spear, 3 crossbow, 0 mace, 0 galleon

Need:

8 catapult, 2 spear, 4 crossbow, 12 mace, 3 galleon

This set:

5 catapult (2x Paris, Commerce, Clams, Barb City)
2 spear (GP Farm, Barb City)
1 crossbow (Paris)
8 mace (Paris, GP Farm, Production, 2x Commerce, Clams, West Coast Silk, Wheat)
3 galleon (Zhou, West Fish, Fake Humbaba)

Total:

5 catapult, 2 spear, 4 crossbow, 8 mace

Still needed:

3 catapult, 0 spear, 0 crossbow, 4 mace
 
Chris: This looks really good. I'll trust that the production lines are good.

I have one question. If we rename the barb workers to workers 9 and 10. Will any workers we build later be called workers 11, 12, etc? That was the reason I didn't change their names in my turnset. Not really a huge deal either way, I'm curious though.

EDIT: I think we settled Fake Humbaba for trade routes. :-p. It's a net positive for the empire, even if it looks a little stupid.
 
That was fast!!

Looks good, but I don't think we need the extra galleon from Fake Humbaba, 3 & galley are enough. (and its my fault we settled this, it will be much better with a LH & CH, I promise).

Green from me


edit: might be a good idea to delay the foreign buddhist mish 1-2 turns to help with circumnavigation
 
Neil, I think the galleon from Fake Humbaba is the third galleon. Am I confused and built a fourth galleon?

I can't play until Wednesday evening, 48 hours from now, so plenty of time for people to pick apart the details and improve the plan.
 
Only comment regards selling MC to Rams. I would not give Rams more. We will eventually DoW him. Trade will give us neg diplo with Brens which may hurt our chances for a bribe.
 
Neil, I think the galleon from Fake Humbaba is the third galleon. Am I confused and built a fourth galleon?

Yes, West Fish produces 1 next turn, and then it and Zhou produce 2 & 3.

West Fish: finish galleon -> start galleon -> whip galleon
Zhou: finish lighthouse -> start galleon -> whip galleon...

Only comment regards selling MC to Rams. I would not give Rams more. We will eventually DoW him. Trade will give us neg diplo with Brens which may hurt our chances for a bribe.
Fair point, we don't plan on trading techs out of him in the future.
 
Edits in red.

Pre Play Plan

Play 6 turns, to Engineering, at sustainable 60% research.

1. Technologies

Engineering.

Ramesses II has Theology but doesn't feel like trading it away yet. Check every turn to see if he will trade. Stop if true.

Sell Metal Casting to everyone except Brennus and Ramesses II for a pittance, to allow better trades later.

Check every turn for new technology trading possibilities. Stop if anything interesting arises.

2. Dealing with AI

Refuse demands from Brennus, Ramesses II, and Saladin. Consider demands from others if interesting, but likely refuse.

Check every turn to see if Brennus can be bribed into war with Ramesses II. Stop if true.

Continue focusing espionage on Qin.

Local spy continues to counter espionage. Remote spy continues exploring.

3. City placement and builds

No new cities this set.

4. General micro

Builds. All the ??? can be decided in the next turnset. This shows 5 turns of builds, since 1 turns will be revolutionary.
Paris: Finish crossbowman -> start catapult -> whip catapult -> start mace -> whip mace -> start ???
GP Farm: Whip harbor -> start spear -> whip spear -> start mace -> whip mace -> start ???
Production: Whip catapult -> start catapult -> whip catapult -> start mace -> whip mace -> start ???
Commerce: Start catapult -> whip catapult -> start mace -> whip mace -> start mace -> whip mace
Clams: Finish spear -> start catapult -> whip catapult -> start mace -> whip mace -> start ???
West Fish: finish galleon -> start galleon -> whip galleon
Barb City: finish crossbow -> start catapult -> whip catapult -> start spear -> whip spear -> start ???
Zhou: finish lighthouse -> start galleon -> whip galleon...
Fake Humbaba: why did we settle this city? Continue courthouse, whip when possible.
West Coast Silk: finish barracks -> start mace -> whip mace
Wheat: finish barracks -> start mace -> whip mace
Red Fish Blue Fish: continue building granary, whip when possible

Tiles
Micro Paris to grow on first turn.
Run specialists in GP Farm at all costs. Do not whip below 5 (2 scientists, 1 engineer, fish, pig)
Do not whip Commerce below 8

Workers
Workers 1&7: finish chop, move 1S, road East to connect Verlamion attack point.
Huacan Worker: Rename to Worker 9. Finish mine, move 1 NE & road, connecting West Coast Silk to Brennus' road network, help build road to Verlamion attack point.
Worker 3 & Teo worker: Rename Teo to Worker 10 & road north from Commerce to Production.
Worker 2: continue building workshops for Zhou
Workers 5&6: road south from Commerce to Tolosa
Worker 8: road south from Barb City to Wheat

5. Civics and Religion

Infect Beijing with Buddhism.

Revolt to Hereditary Rule and Bureaucracy immediately.

6. War

Scouting
Galley 1 with Chariot 6 to explore Ramesses II territory, hoping to find Brennus' stack -> Galley 1 return to take Buddhist missionary to Zhou.
Chariots 1&10 heads west searching for Brennus' stack.
Spy and caravels on foreign continent continue exploring, hoping to circumnavigate.
Triremes 1&4, Chariot 12 barb fogbusting and fighting duty.
Trireme 3 explore the north.

Bribing
Check every turn to see if Brennus can be bribed to attack Ramesses II.

7. Bigger picture

Not much here for such a short turnset. Here is the army composition:

Current Force:

0 catapult, 0 spear, 3 crossbow, 0 mace, 0 galleon

Need:

8 catapult, 2 spear, 4 crossbow, 12 mace, 3 galleon

This set:

5 catapult (2x Paris, Commerce, Clams, Barb City)
2 spear (GP Farm, Barb City)
1 crossbow (Paris)
8 mace (Paris, GP Farm, Production, 2x Commerce, Clams, West Coast Silk, Wheat)
3 galleon (Zhou, West Fish, Fake Humbaba)

Total:

5 catapult, 2 spear, 4 crossbow, 8 mace

Still needed:

3 catapult, 0 spear, 0 crossbow, 4 mace
 
So, at the end of the five turns, we still need 3 catapults and 4 maces. Is that OK? Should I instead set it so that we have all the catapults, but still need 7 maces? Or, given that we will have engineering at the end of the five turns, should I build more maces and delay the catapults so we can build trebuchets instead?
 
green-frogs-eastcott_1423_600x450.jpg
 
So, at the end of the five turns, we still need 3 catapults and 4 maces. Is that OK? Should I instead set it so that we have all the catapults, but still need 7 maces? Or, given that we will have engineering at the end of the five turns, should I build more maces and delay the catapults so we can build trebuchets instead?

Anyone have opinions on this...?
 
Just go with what you planned. When engineering is in switch from cats to trebs.

The troops you whip now will be the ones that start the war, we dont want to wait for all the trebs to be in position.

Green from me
 
Indeed!
 
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