SGOTM 17 - Xteam

DJMGator13 · Mar 11, 2013

I opened up 15 Industrial Age rainforest maps and went into WB.

I never saw iron by horses.
I consistently saw iron in a tile next to: pigs (11 of 15), rice (9 of 15) & bananas (10 of 15).
I occassionally saw iron in a tile next to cows (2 of 15)
Iron by non-food tiles: silver (2 of 15), fur (1 of 15), alum (1 of 15)

There were still the standard locations of iron spread throughout the map and many of these were within 2 tiles of resources, but never horses. Didn't really notice it too close to elephants either.

Not sure how helpful this is but our best iron location maybe in the center of Hawk's test cities or in the SE corner.

We need to keep track of the forest tiles we chop because iron doesn't appear on forest tiles.

leif erikson · Mar 11, 2013

Interesting info.

There are Rice and Bananas west of the capital, and hills. Perhaps that city might gain Iron? Of course, have to remember Swede's motto, never trust a mapmaker. :eek:

Htadus · Mar 11, 2013

Ran another test and whipped the Granary on T10 or 11. City grew like mad and was able to whip a settler for 2 pop by T21?

Alpha sooner too and IW also,

Spoiler :

Cactus Pete · Mar 12, 2013

What does this mean, Htadus? "Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): "

Looks interesting but wondering how valuable is IW on turn 39 if iron does not show up?

Undecided · Mar 12, 2013

I played a test game to T50 with a similar to hawk's opening.
Didn't pay attention to scouting but usually the scout would've wandered off to find MM as quickly as possible (and then die in an unfortunate animal accident).

Differences:

I settle phants as my 2nd city.
My third city and fourth city are a bit delayed, i think this is mainly because i tried to get a couple fogbusters out. As Htadus said, the area could be fogbusted pretty easy. Getting the network up early will make a big difference i think. Played another map from a similar position into the T90 range and had only one warrior near horse city and never saw one advanced barb. Lost one fogbuster in the SE corner that could've been easily avoided. The archer that's down there was originally on route to horse city to ensure the safety of the strat resource.
Alpha on T35 (barely) and traded for IW, then selected currency. 0% slider until lib in the cap is finished in a couple turns.
Next city would be hawk's and htadus' 2nd city near the banana hill.
Mansa had math pretty early too in this game but i already traded IW.

Save:

leif erikson · Mar 12, 2013

Cactus Pete said:
Looks interesting but wondering how valuable is IW on turn 39 if iron does not show up?

Think IW is very valuable because it allows us to chop jungles and free up the Gem, Pig, Banana and Rice tiles for use in Horse City.

Who knows what other goodies may be out there in that jungle. Also, Iron could show up in a jungle tile. :mischief:

Cactus Pete · Mar 12, 2013

leif erikson said:
Think IW is very valuable because it allows us to chop jungles and free up the Gem, Pig, Banana and Rice tiles for use in Horse City. Okay, just asking.

Who knows what other goodies may be out there in that jungle. Also, Iron could show up in a jungle tile.

Like Math as a second tech but wondering if we should research something else and use that to trade for it.

Htadus · Mar 12, 2013

I want ot point out some observation about Mansa's capital location.

We met him on T4. So he can not be more than 8 tiles from the location we saw him. Also he was surrounded by growth. So it must be less than 7 tiles from he is at. So the city can be within 7 tiles of Mali scout. So when we do play, I recommend the archer head toward east but zig-zag within the 14x14 area. As for the scout, I would like to see if there is a path to south from that land bridge in east. And may be check out the landbridge to south of the capital. Hopefully the desert section is in that direction and the scout will be able to move 2 tiles per turn. See attached images. We can do 1 of the 2 options for the archer and send scout to check the south.

I want to do one more test to see if it is possible to get second city up sooner and get Alpha faster.

Cactus Pete said:
What does this mean, Htadus? "Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): " I was able to trade Alpha to Mansa for IW.

Looks interesting but wondering how valuable is IW on turn 39 if iron does not show up?

Extreamly important for us with accessible gem(s I hope) nearby.

Undecided said:
I played a test game to T50 with a similar to hawk's opening.
Didn't pay attention to scouting but usually the scout would've wandered off to find MM as quickly as possible (and then die in an unfortunate animal accident). Yah, I wanted to say that poor scout did not fair that well in my game too

Differences:

I settle phants as my 2nd city. I must admit I too like that city better

snip

Alpha on T35 (barely) look like you used the lake. Using the lake from get go will drop 5 turns from Alpha. and traded for IW, then selected currency. 0% slider until lib in the cap is finished in a couple turns. I like this path too
Next city would be hawk's and htadus' 2nd city near the banana hill. or better by then.
Mansa had math pretty early too in this game but i already traded IW. Still it is a trade option... you know when 10 sword men have just taken Mansa's capital and he want to get peace

Save:

I still need to look at your save.

leif erikson said:
Think IW is very valuable because it allows us to chop jungles and free up the Gem, Pig, Banana and Rice tiles for use in Horse City. I second that

Who knows what other goodies may be out there in that jungle. Also, Iron could show up in a jungle tile.

I hope we did not settle on iron.

Cactus Pete said:
Like Math as a second tech but wondering if we should research something else and use that to trade for it.

I want to run a few tests but I think we should head to currency next and do an old fashion sword rush and get what ever the next tech Mansa will have. It is very likely math or CoL. I am good with both.

Cactus Pete · Mar 12, 2013

""Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): " I was able to trade Alpha to Mansa for IW." I know that, but what are the green notations about?

Mansa is tough to rush and the most valuable of trading partners.

Htadus · Mar 12, 2013

Cactus Pete said:
""Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): " I was able to trade Alpha to Mansa for IW." I know that, but what are the green notations about?

Mansa is tough to rush and the most valuable of trading partners.

Oh..sorry... those are the other ways of acquiring a tech. Light bulb = using GP 's to learn, Hut = poping techs from huts (when enabled) and espionage = stealing as we did IW last time.

Yes Mans is hard to rush but he will trade at annoyed. But i am guessing his capital will be much better than what we have right now. Ihave done this on a HOF game where I had to steal workers and then his capital. But I did share his religion and gave him a few good trades. So After 2 wars he was still trding with me.

I am wondering if we are going to be isolated at all now. But I guess, that would defeat the purpose of matching us with Mansa to give us a headach as to how to deal with him.

Cactus Pete · Mar 12, 2013

"that would defeat the purpose of matching us with Mansa to give us a headach as to how to deal with him." Headaches are a map maker's good times.

Undecided · Mar 13, 2013

@Htadus

Yes I used the lake, but only when it didn't hamper the growth of the city. I even used coastal tiles when micromanaging for max overflow of workers into settlers and to get alpha on T35. It might be even possible to get it a turn earlier but my conscience wouldn't let me use the lake that much.
This is still a trade off but i think the earlier we get alpha, or any tech really, the better.

With regards to the second tech, i chose currency mainly because the economy really crashed after the forth and fifth city even with gems when i played my other test a bit further. That being said, with the slider at 0% we have a lot of flexibility until we have the first library online.

I like your thinking with the swords and mansa's cap but i can't share your optimism since i still have nightmares from last time i tried to punch through a wall of skirmishers.

leif erikson · Mar 13, 2013

Undecided said:
With regards to the second tech, i chose currency mainly because the economy really crashed after the forth and fifth city even with gems when i played my other test a bit further. That being said, with the slider at 0% we have a lot of flexibility until we have the first library online.

Played around last night but was tired and sloppy. Took Currency as the second tech and was able to trade it for Code of Laws. Between building Cottages and Rathaus, the economy can recover quite quickly to support a rather sizable army.

Cactus Pete · Mar 13, 2013

So, leif, you proceeded without Math? Did you use chop (as well as whip) for settlers?

leif erikson · Mar 13, 2013

Chopped one forest for the Granary in the Capital, everything else was by the whip. The pop was growing so quickly, I could barely keep up with whipping it.

There is so much jungle to chop to get to early resources, there are hardly enough Worker turns to chop other forests. Think a four city start is good and then be ready for Iron if it shows somewhere.

Think early Alphabet also calls for early scouting, at least as much as possible, to capitalize on the use of Alphabet.

leif erikson · Mar 14, 2013

Where are we?

We need to get this thing moving.

Anyone have time to take it under their wing?

Htadus · Mar 14, 2013

If no one can take it I will step up. But I am still testing. I want to figure out how to speed up teching. By the way I am starting to think the old saying 1 early hammer is worth 2 later. Basically chop now and build a couple libraries early.

leif erikson · Mar 14, 2013

You and Hawk have probably spent the most time on testing. Should you have the time, think it would be fine for you to take it. Please do complete your tests and let us know the result.

I am pretty much on board with Alphabet first and trading for IW. Then we will have to decide what is next, could be Currency, but it depends upon the availability of Iron or if we find Copper.

Please let us know where you intend to settle cities, because I think you and I are not quite agreeing yet.

Cactus Pete · Mar 15, 2013

Chopping early, even with the penalty for no Math, has often been good for me.

Fine by me if Htadus plays first, though he shouldn't go until Hawk gives input.

Did you send MP an email, leif? Getting concerned about his welfair.

leif erikson · Mar 15, 2013

Sent MP both an email and a PM. I am also concerned, but do not know what else to try to do?

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