SGOTM 18 - Unusual Suspects

[Deckhand]

Great Job!
Glad I stepped back. (and glad I didn't beg for 70 gold.
I'm busy today but available Sunday afternoon and evening (and all next week). I can make a PPP and/or continue playing then. Also ok with you or someone else continuing now.

... Notre Dame?

good for us that he has been building wonders and not units there

Will a Holy war vote vs. Evil be possible? Is the peace treaty between Joao and him already expired? Or have they not signed one? ...

I believe that a Holy war will cancel an existing peace.

Will look at save now, then gotta go.
---
edit
Looking good!
Nice of him to also split the stack by Karakorum

 

[Pollina]

I believe that a Holy war will cancel an existing peace

Didn't know that.

Something else that, if true, would make a Holy war vs. Evil impossible:

1. Declare war on X
Prerequisite: One Full Member must be at war with X and at least one Non-Vassal Full Member must not be at war with X, and X must be a Non-Vassal Non-Member.
If passed, all Members are instantly at war with X.

Mansa (=only other Full Member) is still at war with him, isn't he?

A trade embargo vs. Genghis is not possible either:

2. Trade Embargo against X
Prerequisite: One Full Member must be trading with X, and X must be a Non-Member.
If passed, all Members now have Closed Borders with X and all trade agreements with X not made within the last 10 turns are cancelled.

Mansa is not trading with Genghis.

If the above is right, we can choose between Holy war against Genghis and trade embargo against Gandhi

 

[neilmeister]

We can make peace this turn with Evil for 95g, or a tech (MC, Theo or CoL). A Cease Fire might also be possible costing us nothing.

So next turn when the vote goes off, the pre-reqs are satisfied, and we (and more importantly Joao) are back at war with him again.

edit: my mistake though, I assumed him being at peace with Joao was enough to trigger the vote option.

 

[neilmeister]

I do agree that we don't want to start a holy war against GK to early, not until we have most of his lands safely in our hands.

 

[Pollina]

We can make peace this turn with Evil for 95g, or a tech (MC, Theo or CoL). A Cease Fire might also be possible costing us nothing.

Could we save some gold by giving our map for peace? I don't like giving him any of our techs.

 

[neilmeister]

Yes, our map might be worth enough. We cant check though without doing the deal.
All of the techs he wants are obsolete, so i have no issue giving him CoL.

 

[shulec]

Going forward, we have to dramatically pick up the pace. We are having too much down time. We are getting to the point where most micro is not that important, but some of it is still huge with regard the big picture.

 

[Deckhand]

I can play in four hours. Do we need an updated PPP?
What is our plan for diplomacy? Peace with Evil? AP vote: stop trading or what?
War: defend in PG, capture Karakorum, and continue?

 

[astre]

get out from internet shutdown at home due to cable stealing in my town

I'm on deck but will have to swap next turn as I'll be flying to finland tomorow. I'll take the next shot.

I should be able to comment anyway.

brillant move so far
don't think we need an updated PPP. things seems clear except the next vote issue.
did not get the exchanges so far on that subject.

 

[neilmeister]

Take peace/cease fire this turn with Evil for map & cash.
Vote next turn to restart holy war against Evil.

Continue fight with GK.

Keep building galleys/pike/trebs/xbows

Play at least 10 turns

 

[astre]

i got the thing about manipulate votes.
ok with Take peace/cease fire this turn with Evil for map & cash ; Vote next turn to restart holy war against Evil.

 

[Deckhand]

PPP not essential, but so I don’t forget here is one for me to reference.
Will play on with one green and no objections. (First reply “wins”) (Or first responder could raise the number of greens needed). I have lots of time available today.

--------------------------
PPP T131-140

Summary 

Take peace/cease fire this turn with Evil for map & cash.
Vote next turn to restart holy war against Evil.
Continue fight with GK.
Keep building galleys/pike/trebs/xbows
Play at least 10 turns

Remember to Check at start of Every Turn:
Diplomatic situation
Trades available
Espionage
Citizen Assignments
For Mongol, Zulu, Viking units


Objectives:
- This turn set: Conquer Karakorum, fend off attackers, take most of Mongolia, prepare for capturing Wonders in Member’sOnly

Research:
- Education at 100%
- When Nationalism available, infiltrate, then steal it and start Taj (in Washington)
- Espionage on Goldmember, but keep visibility of Joao

Diplo:
- Take peace/cease fire this turn with Evil for map & cash.
- Vote next turn to restart holy war against Evil.
- Accept any beg/demand from Gandhi, Joao, Mansa.
- trade these 3 any resources we can spare

Defense of ParadiseGate:
Move LongBow, Spear, Fembot, Archer (Pig City) into PG.
Upgrade Spear & Archer. Whip Pike in PC (next turn). Pollina: “Good decision to skip the upgrades for now.” I have the upgrades in my plan, are we sure they are unnecessary?
Finish HE as we expect to keep the city. (please confirm)

City builds:
Washington: trebuchet, units, Taj Mahal
Fish City: galleys
Pig City:, temple (whip now), treb
Paradise Gate: HE, units (no walls??)
Ironside: Pike (whip), LB (overflow and chop); Keep Pike, Mace, Axe there until certain it is safe then they go north
Old Sarai & Beshbalik: Granary, Barracks, units


Units:
Workers: keep busy, chop infrastructure and units, develop tiles …
Delay filler cities until after MembersOnly; put them 3W of Fish City and 2W of stone

Triremes: stay on fish

Army: march north to Karakorum, kill lonely elephant, capture Karakorum, promote a medic, heal, roll on

Promotions: upgrade Trebs and Cats to CR2

Confu Missionary: spread Confusion in Bombay (turn 133 if roads are there and we are lucky; move at full speed and hope nothing bad is in the way) Is this right: t131 make peace, turn 132 vote for Holy War, turn 133 infect Bombay, IBT result announced – and India also at war because they are now a member? Couldn’t be any better than that. We are sure we can restart the war because Mansa will still be at war, right?

Declare war on X:
Prerequisite: One Full Member must be at war with X and at least one Non-Vassal Full Member must not be at war with X, and X must be a Non-Vassal Non-Member.
If passed, all Members are instantly at war with X.

Spy in TH: wait for Natl, then steal
Spy in Wash: head to Joao/Goldmember battle area to see what is going on there (hope he doesn’t get caught), build replacement
Great Spy: infiltrate Trojan Horse before we run next spy mission
next Great General - become medic (build a chariot for this)

Pause conditions:
- Joao or Mansa opens borders with Dr. Evil
- GK and Mansa open borders
- New tempting tech, gold and map trades available
- Approaching enemy stack (that I can’t handle)
- Anything else not previously discussed

Did I miss anything?

 

[shulec]

i got the thing about manipulate votes.
ok with Take peace/cease fire this turn with Evil for map & cash ; Vote next turn to restart holy war against Evil.

I can't do it tonight, but has someone confirmed that we will get the war vote even if we are under a peace treaty?

 

[neilmeister]

Sorry for the non response last night, I was already asleep.

I havent checked it, but I dont see why it won't work.

The AP votes are very simple:
- at least one full member is at war with X
- at least one full member is not.

The AP vote will therefore come up, and if it succeeds, all members will instantly be at war with X.

GREEN from me, go get some.

 

[Pollina]

I can't do it tonight, but has someone confirmed that we will get the war vote even if we are under a peace treaty?

Have not checked with the test game, but took a peek at the code. The game checks for permanent peace (Always Peace/Permanent War or Peace options) and Vassal status, but not for peace treaties.

Green!

Edit:

Defense of ParadiseGate:
Move LongBow, Spear, Fembot, Archer (Pig City) into PG.
Upgrade Spear & Archer. Whip Pike in PC (next turn). Pollina: “Good decision to skip the upgrades for now.” I have the upgrades in my plan, are we sure they are unnecessary?
Finish HE as we expect to keep the city. (please confirm)

Finish HE, then build pike or whatever is needed next turn. Not sure, if whipping the pike in PC is necessary, but better be safe than sorry. I don't think upgrades are needed. 1 lb, 1 arch, 3 pikes, 1 spear+Fembot vs. 2 phants, 3 Keshiks, 1 sword and 1 chariot should be safe.

 

[astre]

green, ok to keep HE in PG
for upgrade, we need at least 1 LB and one pike in PG. there will also be an archer and a spear if i count right, i would feel safer if you upgrade the spear to pike. With 2 pikes, we will be very fine.

 

[Deckhand]

OK, it's 12:45 am here - I will play to capture of Beshbalik and defense of ParadiseGate, let you know it went ok; then continue tomorrow.

 

[Deckhand]

Alt-Tab'd to here. No War option. Do we want war vs GK for all, stop trade with Gandhi or nothing?

edit, stop trade with Gandhi would be no confu missionary infection so that would be a real bad choice.

 

[Pollina]

Holy War with GK could cost us Trojan Horse! I think I would prefer nothing.

Waiting with the Holy War vs. Evil until after we have infected Gandhi might not be so bad after all.

 

[Deckhand]

^ great, thanks for replying
I agree.