SGOTM 19 - Also Sprach Sid
- Thread starter AlanH
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soundjata
everything
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- Jun 3, 2011
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Both results indeed are very comparable.
It think I'd choose 30 commerce vs. hammers at this stage.
Chopping is probably better used later, for important buildings and we should keep them for better use later.
Great scientists in capitol, only if we can reach literature one turn earlier?
It think I'd choose 30 commerce vs. hammers at this stage.
Chopping is probably better used later, for important buildings and we should keep them for better use later.
Great scientists in capitol, only if we can reach literature one turn earlier?
I think working commerce tiles are probably better for reaching literature earlier.
The difference in commerce is from me settling Amsterdam three turns earlier. Since we are settling the city I say we should have it settled as soon as the road is completed. I will work a little on the micro tonight.
I agree that is makes sense to save the forest unless we need more units right now.
The difference in commerce is from me settling Amsterdam three turns earlier. Since we are settling the city I say we should have it settled as soon as the road is completed. I will work a little on the micro tonight.
I agree that is makes sense to save the forest unless we need more units right now.
Remember also that unhappy citizens eat food, unless you are building a Settler:
Spoiler :
It can probably be assumed that we will capture another Worker or two from Asoka. Even so, be sure to improve the Quarry in the capital. Note, e.g.:
Spoiler :
Have gotten flu in these days, so can't check micros. Good job of Doshin and Folket.
What I prefer is that
Don't delay our 1st GS any further, on top of this, I don't mind whipping axes
Don't neglect barbarian defense
In case that I'm not clear enough
We already delayed scouting west for 5 turns more, meeting more AIs is urgent.
What I prefer is that
Don't delay our 1st GS any further, on top of this, I don't mind whipping axes
Don't neglect barbarian defense
In case that I'm not clear enough
We already delayed scouting west for 5 turns more, meeting more AIs is urgent.
Comparison:
The commerce figures are not very fair as I captured piles of workers. but I think unit upkeep for all the workers are something we need to consider.
Rice Pudding might be able to micro to be at the same size as Doshin.
Spoiler :
versus 41 
/ The commerce figures are not very fair as I captured piles of workers. but I think unit upkeep for all the workers are something we need to consider.
Rice Pudding might be able to micro to be at the same size as Doshin.
Comparison:
Looking at the number it looks like Doshins micro is better. I think my workers are better positioned. The extra pop in Case Départ does not do a lot working a 1F2H1C tile, while Amsterdam has two good tiles to work.
Spoiler :
Looking at the number it looks like Doshins micro is better. I think my workers are better positioned. The extra pop in Case Départ does not do a lot working a 1F2H1C tile, while Amsterdam has two good tiles to work.
turn 42
worker 1 moves to N of Sheepish and starts to chop
worker 2 moves to Case Départ
worker 3 moves to Case Départ
scout moves towards cow
turn 43
worker 2 move to SE of Rice Pudding and start chop
worker 3 move to SE of Rice Pudding and start chop
Rice Pudding grows and starts to work rice
turn 44
worker 2 Move to rice and finish farm
worker 3 move to NW of Rice Pudding and start mine
worker 4 move to ESESE of Golden sands and build road for 1 turn
turn 45
Case Départ grows and starts settler
worker 2 move to ESESE of Golden sands and build road for 1 turn
worker 4 move to ESEE of Golden sands and build road for 1 turn
Rice Pudding grows and starts to work silk
worker 1 move to SW of Case Départ and build road for 1 turn
turn 46
whip granary in Sheepish
worker 4 move to EEEE of golden sands and build road for 1 turn
worker 2 move to EESE of golden sands and build road for 1 turn
worker 1 start marble
80% research
turn 47
start monument in Sheepish
worker 4 move to SE of rice
worker 2 move to EEEE of golden sands and build road
Rice Pudding grows and starts to work fresh water
whip settler in Case Départ
build axeman in Rice pudding for 1 turn.
0% research
turn 48
worker 4 start improving rice
worker 2 build road on cows
build wealth in Case Départ
build barracks in Rice Pudding
Rice pudding works mine instead of silk.
turn 49
whip barracks in Wice Pudding
worker 3 move to rice
Settler move to ESESE of godlen sands
turn 50
worker 3 build road ESESE of golden sands
worker 2 build road EESE of golden sands
Settler move to between corn and cow.
work on archer in Rice Pudding.
turn 51
settle Amsterdam.
worker 2 and 3 start improving cow.
Rice pudding start new archer (or whip axeman?)
Case Départ grows and starts to work marble.
Amsterdam works corn.
turn 52
whip monument in Sheepish
worker 1 move to NNE of Sheepish
Amsterdam starts working cow
turn 53
Golden Sand starts to work rice after granary is finished.
worker 4 moves towards W of Godlen sands to chop and build farm/cottage
worker 2 and 3 start to farm corn.
turn 54
build acadamy
whip axeman in Rice Pudding
Stop having scientists in Case Départ Made misstake here in the test game attached.
100% research
turn 55
Case Dépaert starts settler
Rice Pudding starts axeman.
Amsterdam starts to work corn.
worker 1 moves to N of Sheepish and starts to chop
worker 2 moves to Case Départ
worker 3 moves to Case Départ
scout moves towards cow
turn 43
worker 2 move to SE of Rice Pudding and start chop
worker 3 move to SE of Rice Pudding and start chop
Rice Pudding grows and starts to work rice
turn 44
worker 2 Move to rice and finish farm
worker 3 move to NW of Rice Pudding and start mine
worker 4 move to ESESE of Golden sands and build road for 1 turn
turn 45
Case Départ grows and starts settler
worker 2 move to ESESE of Golden sands and build road for 1 turn
worker 4 move to ESEE of Golden sands and build road for 1 turn
Rice Pudding grows and starts to work silk
worker 1 move to SW of Case Départ and build road for 1 turn
turn 46
whip granary in Sheepish
worker 4 move to EEEE of golden sands and build road for 1 turn
worker 2 move to EESE of golden sands and build road for 1 turn
worker 1 start marble
80% research
turn 47
start monument in Sheepish
worker 4 move to SE of rice
worker 2 move to EEEE of golden sands and build road
Rice Pudding grows and starts to work fresh water
whip settler in Case Départ
build axeman in Rice pudding for 1 turn.
0% research
turn 48
worker 4 start improving rice
worker 2 build road on cows
build wealth in Case Départ
build barracks in Rice Pudding
Rice pudding works mine instead of silk.
turn 49
whip barracks in Wice Pudding
worker 3 move to rice
Settler move to ESESE of godlen sands
turn 50
worker 3 build road ESESE of golden sands
worker 2 build road EESE of golden sands
Settler move to between corn and cow.
work on archer in Rice Pudding.
turn 51
settle Amsterdam.
worker 2 and 3 start improving cow.
Rice pudding start new archer (or whip axeman?)
Case Départ grows and starts to work marble.
Amsterdam works corn.
turn 52
whip monument in Sheepish
worker 1 move to NNE of Sheepish
Amsterdam starts working cow
turn 53
Golden Sand starts to work rice after granary is finished.
worker 4 moves towards W of Godlen sands to chop and build farm/cottage
worker 2 and 3 start to farm corn.
turn 54
build acadamy
whip axeman in Rice Pudding
Stop having scientists in Case Départ Made misstake here in the test game attached.
100% research
turn 55
Case Dépaert starts settler
Rice Pudding starts axeman.
Amsterdam starts to work corn.
I took a peek at the save. Kinda tired so I may be rambling much.
I agree with others who posted that scouting is sorely lacking. This was somewhat stressed as an important part of the game in the pre-game thread. At the expense of a few worker turns, getting information about what's out there would be nice. Getting the beaker multipliers (through Monarchy) or simply some
resources a few turns earlier should be better than those worker turns a few turns earlier.
Constantinople isn't a realistic objective right now with barbs showing up in force, but as soon as we have 1 Axe on each pole I don't see a reason to delay further. Even at the expense of a few non-Math forests.
I agree with others who posted that scouting is sorely lacking. This was somewhat stressed as an important part of the game in the pre-game thread. At the expense of a few worker turns, getting information about what's out there would be nice. Getting the beaker multipliers (through Monarchy) or simply some
resources a few turns earlier should be better than those worker turns a few turns earlier.Constantinople isn't a realistic objective right now with barbs showing up in force, but as soon as we have 1 Axe on each pole I don't see a reason to delay further. Even at the expense of a few non-Math forests.
Yes, I was just coming here to discuss movement of units.
But uncertain how " At the expense of a few worker turns, getting information about what's out there would be nice." works. Are you suggesting we send worker into the wilds?
Not wild about moving Axeman 2 to Constantinople, but it is only 1 turn window for the barb to attack Sheepish.
Archer at golden sands could spawn bust a little. If we are brave we could send him WW or NNW but I would put him NW of golden sands so he spawnbusts a little while not risking him.
Scout should move to cow in the manner described earlier and then 2N? when workers arrive.
Axemen 1 should beeline west.
Should we consider to whip axeman before barracks in Rice Pudding to send an axeman to explore forests W of Golden Sands?
But uncertain how " At the expense of a few worker turns, getting information about what's out there would be nice." works. Are you suggesting we send worker into the wilds?
Not wild about moving Axeman 2 to Constantinople, but it is only 1 turn window for the barb to attack Sheepish.
Archer at golden sands could spawn bust a little. If we are brave we could send him WW or NNW but I would put him NW of golden sands so he spawnbusts a little while not risking him.
Scout should move to cow in the manner described earlier and then 2N? when workers arrive.
Axemen 1 should beeline west.
Should we consider to whip axeman before barracks in Rice Pudding to send an axeman to explore forests W of Golden Sands?
At the expense of a few worker turns: move the WII Axe to the west means that we'll probably capture some workers a few turns later instead.
The scout is fogbusting so that barbs all head to the gold city, he's kinda stuck there for now.
The scout is fogbusting so that barbs all head to the gold city, he's kinda stuck there for now.
If you referred to post #231 of your PPP, I don't think it covered enough details and response to all feedback.
You have to clearly tell others what you agree and disagree on their feedback and suggestions, and convince them why your ways are better with strong arguments.
Personally I won't hesitate to agree with active player's opinions and leave choice on his hands when there's not much difference of either ways.
You have to clearly tell others what you agree and disagree on their feedback and suggestions, and convince them why your ways are better with strong arguments.
Personally I won't hesitate to agree with active player's opinions and leave choice on his hands when there's not much difference of either ways.
I feel completely oblivious now. What part have I failed to address? Or is it more detail on how I address their comments?
The last posted save is still a little rough around the edges, although it is definitely heading in the right direction. My thoughts:
Sorry that I don't have time to produce a more detailed comparison. This is just my impression from looking at your save file.
To satisfy Duckweed (and make it easier on the rest of us
), you could post pictures of each city and the overall empire on the last turn of your PPP. This will help illustrate the final product of your plan.
Dubioza used to post both text and images for each turn, although I am personally not that committed.
- Worker movement differs from save to save. If you have not tried to already, on T42, have two Workers move to chop the Forest 1N of Sheepish. When they later move north, both can road the tile 1SW of the capital. Eventually: Worker 2 = Quarry; Worker 3 = move 3N, farm and cancel, then move to Grassland hill by Rice Pudding and mine.
- By roading this tile, I'd imagine that Worker 2 can return to Sheepish sooner and complete an earlier cottage (your Sheepish has been working an unimproved tile for a few turns).
- Don't build Wealth. Your PPP states that you build Wealth on T48 in the capital. Your latest save has Sheepish and Golden Sands building Wealth. Infrastructure and units are much more valuable.
- Don't run Scientists after we generate an Academy. The capital should be developing its tiles, especially Cottages. We also need units (this is a city with a Barracks) and hammer tiles are boosted by 50% when building a Settler. Regarding this latter point, any time that you have spare citizens and lack Cottages, compare the yields of the Silk (1F 2H 1C) with the Plains Hill (3H). Rounding of
and 
will affect the actual yield... i.e. sometimes the Silk will contribute +2B, sometimes the PH +2H.
- City #5 should be set-up differently. It is imperative to whip a Granary ASAP, which means that it should be chopped. At size 1, a Granary adds +3F to a city that works the Cow, and +5F to a city that works the Corn. So the total yield will either be +6F +3H or +10F. Without a Granary at size 2, the city will yield +6F +3H. So it is better to whip earlier and allow the unhappiness to decay sooner.
Sorry that I don't have time to produce a more detailed comparison. This is just my impression from looking at your save file.
To satisfy Duckweed (and make it easier on the rest of us
), you could post pictures of each city and the overall empire on the last turn of your PPP. This will help illustrate the final product of your plan. Dubioza used to post both text and images for each turn, although I am personally not that committed.
The last posted save is still a little rough around the edges, although it is definitely heading in the right direction. My thoughts:
For this last point, you may be able to justify postponing the Granary to size 3 if the city can generate ~30H from the Cow in this time, since this would preserve a Forest. But more testing would be needed, to see whether the timing works out (I don't think that it will, but it might).
- Worker movement differs from save to save. If you have not tried to already, on T42, have two Workers move to chop the Forest 1N of Sheepish. When they later move north, both can road the tile 1SW of the capital. Eventually: Worker 2 = Quarry; Worker 3 = move 3N, farm and cancel, then move to Grassland hill by Rice Pudding and mine.
It will delay the founding of Amsterdam. Also we get the marble time with growth in Case Départ on turn 51.
- By roading this tile, I'd imagine that Worker 2 can return to Sheepish sooner and complete an earlier cottage (your Sheepish has been working an unimproved tile for a few turns).
I think sheepish will have cottage in time as we can expect a new worker soon. The test game shows we will be overrun with workers to the extent that our economy crash.
- Don't build Wealth. Your PPP states that you build Wealth on T48 in the capital. Your latest save has Sheepish and Golden Sands building Wealth. Infrastructure and units are much more valuable.
This was a response to feedback by soundjata that wealth was more important then hammers. I'm kinda agreeing at the moment. We have enough hammers from food and can turn hammer to wealth. Getting Literature has higher return then libraries in most cities.
- Don't run Scientists after we generate an Academy. The capital should be developing its tiles, especially Cottages. We also need units (this is a city with a Barracks) and hammer tiles are boosted by 50% when building a Settler. Regarding this latter point, any time that you have spare citizens and lack Cottages, compare the yields of the Silk (1F 2H 1C) with the Plains Hill (3H). Rounding of
As I stated the scientists was a mistake in the test game.
- City #5 should be set-up differently. It is imperative to whip a Granary ASAP, which means that it should be chopped. At size 1, a Granary adds +3F to a city that works the Cow, and +5F to a city that works the Corn. So the total yield will either be +6F +3H or +10F. Without a Granary at size 2, the city will yield +6F +3H. So it is better to whip earlier and allow the unhappiness to decay sooner.
Makes sense to chop forest earlier.
We can whip the granary on turn 61 when it grows to size 3.
Sorry that I don't have time to produce a more detailed comparison. This is just my impression from looking at your save file.
To satisfy Duckweed (and make it easier on the rest of us
I will take some screen shots.
Dubioza used to post both text and images for each turn, although I am personally not that committed.
Comments in the Quote.
