SGOTM 19 - Also Sprach Sid

[Duckweed]

Both Chemistry and Scientific Method can be bulbed (Chem leads to SM).

1 turn research into Chemistry is going to make the bulb of Chemistry to be less effective, 2 GSs bulbing SM are also a waste.

Unless we want to stop researching after Demo, producing 2 GSs from Cons and capital is going to waste beakers.

Is it worthwhile to keep Tokugawa alive? This will mean more unhappiness in Aksum, but one more AI to whom we can gift cities.

Eliminate Toku. Aksum needs size 18 to be able to do 3 cold whips and that's very important for the initial spread.

I have never seen an AI willing to talk on the turn that peace is declared, so we can't gift away 3 cities to one AI, declare, raze the 3 cities, ceasefire, gift again, raze again... ad infinitium (ad nihil?).

5 AI means we can give away 15 cities anywhere on the map, at minimum. Add one more liberated city, and we are now at ~10 cities (and the AI usually accept more cities if their finances are good, as you say).

Not only 3 cities, we can gift as many as possible as long as AI's economy sustains. AIs will accept all cities within 8.5 tiles of his cities. The liberation restriction does not affect any AI that is dead in the end.

Restrictions: 1) Culture VC cannot use espionage to spread culture to legendary city; 2) You may not have more than +1 diplo modifier for "you have liberated our city" with any civilization remaining alive; and 3) You may not offer nor accept peace or cease fire in any war declared by you until an enemy city is captured or one of your cities is lost by capture, or the war is ended by UN/AP resolution.

We can focusing on economy now

If we want better economy, then it's better to let other cities which need to rely on whipping Cuis to build wealth instead of slowly producing Cui.

We still have plenty of time to whip Cuis after Medicine. RP and capital remain on military production should be enough to sustain the swift war with 1 AI a time.

 

[kossin]

Ohh, it's any remaining alive AI? Then we can (ab)use liberation to hell to raze our own cities...

AI will accept any city that would grant the liberation bonus, regardless of finances! This is based on capital's distance. Toku's capital could prove useful or we could plant a city for another AI for this purpose...

EDIT: my testing from last SGOTM
We'll just have to figure where to move our Palace and then we could theoretically raze all but 1 of our cities XD.

 

[soundjata]

Excellent!

My vote is for 3 turns democracy (Doshin can you play these ), then we can draft an end game plan

 

[kossin]

Hmm, thing is the cities we'll want to gift-raze have some culture... that might make finances the limiting factor.

 

[soundjata]

^ Can you elaborate that? You are thinking too fast

edit: I think I get what you mean (correct me if I'm wrong)
"An AI will not accept more than 4 gifted cities because it'll be in financial trouble due to lack of tiles to work due to our culture pressure"

 

[soundjata]

For reference:
Current city count without a sushi resource = 17
with a sushi resource = 10
resources yet to claim = 5 (including the suspicious NW corner)

 

[kossin]

Condition for liberation bonus (and AI disregarding its finances) are proximity to capital and % of culture ownership. There's a function for it but needless to say, our cities have more of our culture than AI culture so they won't accept them if they're in financial trouble.

 

[Duckweed]

I don't think we need to worry too much about it. There are not many cities that needs to be gifted away. Quite a few cities are on the way to the resource cities, they just needs to have 10 pops to allow a cold whip.

Excellent!

My vote is for 3 turns democracy (Doshin can you play these ), then we can draft an end game plan

There are ~4 turns that we can twist Guild and then research the Corporation line techs. Before that, there is only Chemistry to be researched. Hurrying research now is going to end with nothing to be research next. It's better to build wealth than build research to hurry Demo.

Moreover, I don't see anything good of knowing the that silly mysterious condition 1 turn earlier (I believe that some teams are going to complain about revealing it through the progress graphs), which has no effect on our current plan, we are going to keep all the captured cities since they are good enough to contribute to our research.

 

[Doshin]

I think teams would have a right to complain if we ignored Democracy completely, bulbed Chemistry now, and decided to beeline Biology.

That doesn't seem in the spirit of the mysterious condition to me, so I'd prefer not to.

-----

I'm switching back to Merchants in Constantinople for sure, and reverted a few tiles back.

I am not "for" a 4-turn Democracy, but value other builds more at this point. We can see what the situation is like next turn, after Toledo leaves revolt, some cities grow, and some Hamlets mature.

----

I'm tweaking the GP plan, since we should capture the Parthenon 2-turns sooner than anticipated.

 

[Doshin]

DH: 621/800GPP

T139: (6 * 3) * 3 = +54GPP (work: Lake/Dye/Rice/Clam)
T140: (6 * 3) * 3 = +54GPP (work: Lake/Dye/Rice/Clam)
T141: (7 * 3) * 3.5 = +73GPP (work: Lake/Rice/Clam)

----> = 802/800GPP @ T142​

BS: 702GPP

T139: (4 * 3) * 3 = +36GPP ----> 738/800
T140: (4 * 3) * 3 = +36GPP ----> = 774/800GPP

T141: (6 * 3) * 3.5 = +63GPP ----> = 837/900GPP
T142: (6 * 3) * 3.5 = +63GPP ----> = 900/900GPP @ T143​

Co: 406GPP

9F T139: ((8 * 3) + 4) * 3 = +84 per turn ----> = 490/900GPP
7F T140: ((8 * 3) + 4) * 3 = +84 per turn ----> = 574/900GPP
5F T141: ((8 * 3) + 4) * 3.5 = +98 per turn ----> = 672/900GPP
3F T142: ((8 * 3) + 4) * 3.5 = +98 per turn ----> = 770/900GPP

1F T143: ((6 * 3) + 4) * 3.5 = +77 per turn ----> = 847/900GPP
T144: ((6 * 3) + 4) * 3.5 = +77 per turn ----> = 924/1000GPP
T145: ((6 * 3) + 4) * 3.5 = +77 per turn ----> = 1001/1000GPP @ T146​

CD: 356GPP

T139: 14 * 4 = 56GPP
T140: 14 * 4 = 56GPP ----> = 468/800GPP

Run 2 Scientists

T141: (2 * 3) + 14 * 4.5 = 90GPP ----> 558/800GPP
T142: (2 * 3) + 14 * 4.5 = 90GPP ----> = 648/900GPP
T143: (2 * 3) + 14 * 4.5 = 90GPP ----> = 738/1000GPP

Run 4 Scientists

T144: (4 * 3) + 14 * 4.5 = 117GPP ----> = 855/1000GPP
T145: (4 * 3) + 14 * 4.5 = 117GPP ----> = 972/1000GPP
T146: (4 * 3) + 14 * 4.5 = 117GPP ----> = 1089/1000GPP
T147: (4 * 3) + 14 * 4.5 = 117GPP ----> = 1206/1200GPP @ T148​

I'll check these now. With the above, we'll save a pop in Constantinople.

 

[Doshin]

Declared war. IBT:

Spoiler :

Napoleon demanded that we stop trading with Alex, which I rejected.

HC built the University of Sankore in Aachen. I think we sold Paper 2, perhaps 3 turns ago.

 

[kossin]

Good luck, I'll be around a bit this evening.

 

[Doshin]

Toku had more units than expected:

Spoiler :

Luckily he'd moved his Axe out to kill a barb unit.

We lost one Cuirassier and razed the city.

 

[Duckweed]

Aachen is going to have ~10 defensive units on T144, try to re-assess the situation after taking Vienna. We need at least 15 Cuis to be safe. You need to send more Cuis toward this direction this turn.

 

[Doshin]

Just to confirm, for my peace of mind:

Spoiler :

The Desert tile's culture drops away once Vienna is taken, yes?

 

[Duckweed]

Normally, yes. However, sometimes there's wield culture remaining for an extra turn.

Like this
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=13180378&postcount=1539

 

[Doshin]

In that case, do you want to split the reinforcements between the Desert tile and Plains 1E of the Cow?

I slightly favor moving them all to the Desert.

 

[kossin]

Remember DanF's explanation...

 

[Duckweed]

In that case, do you want to split the reinforcements between the Desert tile and Plains 1E of the Cow?

I slightly favor moving them all to the Desert.

Up to you, it's unpredictable anyway.

 

[Doshin]

Ran a quick test:

Spoiler :

The following turn, after capturing "Vienna":

Spoiler :

So, I'll move the stack to the Desert tile (western Bear in this test).