SGOTM 19 - Also Sprach Sid

[kossin]

Hole filling is usually when there's only 1 tile, no? The spy (on go-to queue) can check this turn.

For now, I'm reviewing the spread plan and trying to improve it/note warnings. (for example, Adis Ababa HAS to grow this turn else it can't whip T154).

 

[Duckweed]

Let's allow Napoleon to continue fighting Alexander, that will keep his stack at Damascus for a few turns while we sweep in on his cities. Heck, we might just be able to ignore it entirely and keep our spy monitoring its movement.

We can't DoW this turn, and probably not realistically before T153.

It's every inefficient to send a sizable units back later to deal with his stack. Better to gather units around this area now and kill them immediately. It's too slow to wait for Nappy stack to take Damascus, 2 turns to move and 3 turns to bombard.

 

[kossin]

We have units there that need to heal... and we could use Alex for teleporting Executives.

 

[soundjata]

I think Nationhood is fine, but have we planned the # of rushes we need to perform over the next 5 turns? Costs go up 10–15GPT with each Sushi spread.

As it is, my plan has 9 rush in total; including 2 on T153 and 1 on T154.

Whip / Chop / Rushbuy Plan

Turn Whip City 1 (size) Whip City 2 (size) Whip City 3 (size) Whip City 4 (size) Whip City 5 (size)
151 Aksum (15>10)
152 Aksum (11>6) Addis (13>8)
153 Aksum ( RB ) Addis ( RB ) Toledo (15>10)
154 Barcelona (11>6) Toledo (11>6) Addis ( RB ) or 10>5 Const (15>10)
155 Madrid (12>7) Salamanca (chop***) Toledo (chop)
156 Seville (chop) Aksum ( RB ) CD (17>12)
157 Seville (11>6) Aksum (10>5) Rice P (14>9) CD (12>7) Const (10>5)
158 Santiago () Seville ( RB ) Bacon (15>10) Thess (10>5)
159 Mainz (chop) Cordoba (chop) Const ( RB ) Bacon (10>5)
160 Mainz ( RB ) Bacon ( RB )
161 Const ( RB )
162

(***) Assign 3 forests and work all hammers

Spreading Plan

Turn Exec
151 1 Aksum
152 2 Ak > addis
153 4 Addis > Tol Aksum >> Const
154 5 Tol > Barcelona Aksum > Const Addis > Murcia Aksum > DH
155 5 Barcelona > Madrid Toledo > Sal DH > Bacon Addis >> Crib Const >> CD
156 5 Madrid > Seville Sal > SiverFish Toledo >> FS Addis > Crib Const > CD
157 5 Seville > Mainz Toledo > FS Aksum > Adulis CD > Rice P
158 5 Seville > Santiag Aksum > Gondar Rice P >> Cornish CD > Sheep Const > Thess
159 5 Santiag > Copperlam Seville > Cordoba Rice P > Cornish Bacon >>> Barb Corner Thess > Myc
160 5 Mainz >>> snow Cordoba > Samsun Const > DH Bacon >> BC Bacon >> Ironclad
161 3 Mainz >> snow Mainz >> khur Bacon > GS Bacon > BC Bacon > Ironclad
162 0 Mainz > SnowCrab Mainz > khur Const > Yeha

Spreading Plan (no Barb Corner)

Turn Exec
151 1 Aksum
152 2 Ak > addis
153 4 Addis > Tol Aksum >> Const
154 5 Tol > Barcelona Aksum > Const Addis > Murcia Aksum > DH
155 5 Barcelona > Madrid Toledo > Sal DH > Bacon Addis >> Crib Const >> CD
156 5 Madrid > Seville Sal > SiverFish Toledo >> FS Addis > Crib Const > CD
157 5 Seville > Mainz Toledo > FS Aksum > Adulis CD > Rice P
158 5 Seville > Santiag Const > Thess Aksum > Gondar Rice P >> Cornish CD > Sheep
159 5 Mainz >>> snow Santiag > Copperlam Seville > Cordoba Const > DH Rice P > Cornish
160 5 Mainz >> snow Mainz >> khur Thess > Myc Cordoba > Samsun Bacon >> Ironclad
161 0 Mainz > SnowCrab Mainz > khur Const > Yeha Bacon > Ironclad Bacon > GS

 

[soundjata]

Shaka's visiting how's family?

 

[Duckweed]

We have units there that need to heal... and we could use Alex for teleporting Executives.

Not sure what you meant. I have agreed with Doshin's suggestion to let Alex alive.

What I said was that we should take Damascus ourselves when the units around there are healed and then kill Nappy's stack there. Not what you suggested to leave Nappy's stack and then send stacks to deal with them later.

 

[Duckweed]

As it is, my plan has 9 rush in total; including 2 on T153 and 1 on T154.

Whip / Chop / Rushbuy Plan

Turn Whip City 1 (size) Whip City 2 (size) Whip City 3 (size) Whip City 4 (size) Whip City 5 (size)
151 Aksum (15>10)
152 Aksum (11>6) Addis (13>8)
153 Aksum ( RB ) Addis ( RB ) Toledo (15>10)
154 Barcelona (11>6) Toledo (11>6) Addis ( RB ) or 10>5 Const (15>10)
155 Madrid (12>7) Salamanca (chop***) Toledo (chop)
156 Seville (chop) Aksum ( RB ) CD (17>12)
157 Seville (11>6) Aksum (10>5) Rice P (14>9) CD (12>7) Const (10>5)
158 Santiago () Seville ( RB ) Bacon (15>10) Thess (10>5)
159 Mainz (chop) Cordoba (chop) Const ( RB ) Bacon (10>5)
160 Mainz ( RB ) Bacon ( RB )
161 Const ( RB )
162

(***) Assign 3 forests and work all hammers

Spreading Plan

Turn Exec
151 1 Aksum
152 2 Ak > addis
153 4 Addis > Tol Aksum >> Const
154 5 Tol > Barcelona Aksum > Const Addis > Murcia Aksum > DH
155 5 Barcelona > Madrid Toledo > Sal DH > Bacon Addis >> Crib Const >> CD
156 5 Madrid > Seville Sal > SiverFish Toledo >> FS Addis > Crib Const > CD
157 5 Seville > Mainz Toledo > FS Aksum > Adulis CD > Rice P
158 5 Seville > Santiag Aksum > Gondar Rice P >> Cornish CD > Sheep Const > Thess
159 5 Santiag > Copperlam Seville > Cordoba Rice P > Cornish Bacon >>> Barb Corner Thess > Myc
160 5 Mainz >>> snow Cordoba > Samsun Const > DH Bacon >> BC Bacon >> Ironclad
161 3 Mainz >> snow Mainz >> khur Bacon > GS Bacon > BC Bacon > Ironclad
162 0 Mainz > SnowCrab Mainz > khur Const > Yeha

Spreading Plan (no Barb Corner)

Turn Exec
151 1 Aksum
152 2 Ak > addis
153 4 Addis > Tol Aksum >> Const
154 5 Tol > Barcelona Aksum > Const Addis > Murcia Aksum > DH
155 5 Barcelona > Madrid Toledo > Sal DH > Bacon Addis >> Crib Const >> CD
156 5 Madrid > Seville Sal > SiverFish Toledo >> FS Addis > Crib Const > CD
157 5 Seville > Mainz Toledo > FS Aksum > Adulis CD > Rice P
158 5 Seville > Santiag Const > Thess Aksum > Gondar Rice P >> Cornish CD > Sheep
159 5 Mainz >>> snow Santiag > Copperlam Seville > Cordoba Const > DH Rice P > Cornish
160 5 Mainz >> snow Mainz >> khur Thess > Myc Cordoba > Samsun Bacon >> Ironclad
161 0 Mainz > SnowCrab Mainz > khur Const > Yeha Bacon > Ironclad Bacon > GS

What I can see to improve is that on T153, if we want to spread to Const, then we should spread to Lalibela->Yeha and then rushbuy an executive in Yeha.

 

[Doshin]

Maybe I've made mistakes in this, but this took all of 40 minutes...

----

T152

Aksum ----> AA

T153

Aksum ----> Lalibela
AA ----> Toledo

T154

Aksum ----> DH
Lalibela ----> Yeha
AA ----> Marcia
Toledo ----> Barcelona

T155

Barcelona ----> Madrid
DH ----> BS
Lalibela ----> Yeha <----- mistake
Marcia ----> Salamanca
Aksum ----> Adulus

T156

Madrid ----> Cordoba
Barcelona ----> Seville (BUMP)
BS ----> Crib (pt. 1)
Yeha ----> Constantinople
Aksum ----> Gondar

T157

BS ----> Crib (pt. 2)
BS ----> GS
Const ----> SH
Cordoba ----> "Samsun"
Seville ----> Santiago

T158

GS ----> Cornis Cow JOINT BUMP
SH ----> Rice Pudding JOINT BUMP
Santiago ----> Nuremberg
"Samsun" ----> Snowcrab (pt. 1)
Constantinople ----> Thessalonica

T159

RP ----> CD
"Samsun" ----> Snowcrab (pt. 2)
Nuremberg ----> Khursan
Yeha ----> Mycenian (pt. 1)
Gondar ----> Fish and Ships (pt. 1)

T160

Gondar ----> Fish & Ships (pt. 2)
Yeha ----> Mycenian (pt. 2)
Seville ----> Mainz
CD ----> Sheepish
Santiago ----> Copper/Clam

T161

Salamanca ----> Amsterdam

-----

So T160 should be easy mode, regardless of the barb city status. T159 would be hard, and relies on three bump cities (for Seville; CC; RP; and Mycenian probs.) and razing the barb city.



edit: obvious mistake on T153 and T154, where I spread from Lalibela to Yeha twice. Maybe there are other mistakes? This one would help us.

edit 2: I paid no attention to the fact that whip rush & chopping are much better than gold rush. A polished version will need to improve on this.

 

[pomthom]

Didn't manage to see where it could be used but we can also gift any of our existing cities to remaining AIs (including ones that already have Sushi) to bump bottleneck Execs a few tiles before we recapture the city (vs or in addition to bump cities settled solely for that matter)

EDIT: xpost with Doshin which seems to be suggesting just that

 

[Duckweed]

@Doshin

Your plan is 1 turn faster than real since on T151, we can only produce an executive on HQ and spread to AA on T152.

About the spreading plan. We have 33 or 34 (including Nuremberg if it does not slow down) cities to spread.

The fastest way is:

T151 HQ 1
T152 2
T153 4
T154 8
T155 ~ T159 +5 each turn, 33

Considering that there are some cities needing 2~3 turns to arrive, T160 is the best possible date theoretically, T161 is likely, T162 is what soundjata has achieved.

Looks like that both you and soundjata achieved T161

 

[kossin]

I made about the same thing as Doshin with bumpers, different ordering. It may be possible to teleport on Fish Ships by gifting Adulis ? Requires testing. (edit: T160~1)

^^ What's Amsterdam? (EDIT: guess it's Silver Fish)

 

[Doshin]

@Doshin

Your plan is 1 turn faster than real since on T151, we can only produce an executive on HQ and spread to AA on T152.

Looks like that both you and soundjata achieved T161

Thanks, and updated.

Mine achieves T160, when you adapt to my mistakes on T154/55 (Lalibela ---> Yeha twice). The original plan had three spreads on T162, but includes barb city corner.

I made about the same thing as Doshin with bumpers, different ordering. It may be possible to teleport on Fish Ships by gifting Adulis ? Requires testing. (edit: T160~1)

^^ What's Amsterdam?

Amsterdam = Fish/Silver city.

Yes, all the teleporting and bumps need to be tested.

 

[Duckweed]

^Should be Silver fish.

 

[pomthom]

We'll soon know if we need to keep the barb corner. I'm 95% sure it only has a Coal resource... (which we won't see )

 

[Duckweed]

T160 then. We should be able to know whether we should raze the barbarian city in the next 2 turns and adjust spreading plan accordingly.

 

[kossin]

There are 2 things to test for teleportation:

1-teleport by closing borders
2-teleport by DoW

One may end up being favourable at a particular point. Keeping Alex alive and at war with Napoleon would allow infinite uses of #1. For #2 we'll have 2 or 3 shots only.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12546986&postcount=65

 

[kossin]

Thanks, and updated.

Mine achieves T160, when you adapt to my mistakes on T154/55 (Lalibela ---> Yeha twice). The original plan had three spreads on T162, but includes barb city corner.


Amsterdam = Fish/Silver city.

Yes, all the teleporting and bumps need to be tested.

I should have mentioned I had included the barbarian corner in mine. They are pretty much identical to the point where we'll know if we keep the Barb city or not... so T160 or T161.

Let's test teleportation first and then come up with a war plan.

EDIT: min(2*JumpDistance + CityDistance)

 

[Doshin]

^^^^ interesting re. teleporting.

If the first executive is produced on T152, we'll have good visibility over the barb city before we move a Missionary out of Aksum. We'll need to have figured out all teleporting and barb-corner information by T152/3.

All of this means we need to wipe out Nappy on T159, btw. So the war plan will determine how we play T151.

A more nuanced spreading plan (better than my rush-job ) would keep the number of rush Execs as low as possible. Spreading costs will eat up 1/2 of our GPT, and maintenance costs will soon take the rest.

 

[kossin]

Yea, T159 seems pretty rough to wipe out Napoleon

Teleportation is behaving strangely. I'm placing a unit directly on Adulis and it jumps 2N2E (2*1.5 jump, 1.5 tiles away from closest city = 2*3+1.5 = 7.5) while going to Fish Ships is 1N2W (1.5+1 jump, 0 tiles away from closest city = 2*2.5+0 = 5 )

 

[kossin]

It appears there's some kind of penalty for crossing continents. (recall in SGOTM17, there were peaks leading to Churchill's land)

Spoiler before :

Spoiler after :

Going to the city is 2.5 jump, so 2*2.5+0 = 5
Going to that tile all over there is 5 jump and 7.5 cityDistance so 17.5.

So Fish Ships can't be done in 1T... let's focus on Mycenian instead.

~~~

I can't play tonight, but with city micro out of the way and the spread plan pretty much in the bag, we just need a reliable plan of war and we can finish in the next few days. I'm working at home this week so I can clean up Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday.