SGOTM 19 - Also Sprach Sid

[pomthom]

^^^
No point in dwelling now on how we thought the involvement and RL would go and how it actually went, all in all we did great up to here

I'd like to contribute more at this point but I'm afraid I do not have enough overall acuteness to add value compared to you guys. I'll keep checking though, I might think of something...

These last turns are not that light, T160 victory might be our only possible shot at the Gold (if at all) and we don't have the necessary time to be 100% confident of the plan for it. Time for judgement calls (well more than usual)

------

I'm afraid I can't voice an opinion on the troop movement, I'm not grasping enough info to feel I can make an educated decision on the matter

 

[Doshin]

The barbarian AI in your set was quite smart. I hope that you don't live under the shadow of SID -- the barbarian leader.

If kossin can't play much, could you take turns to play with soundjata to close? I'd love to, but my laptop is really slow at running game in later stage. (This is the 2nd time that my new PC requires technical support)

I've played more than a third of our turns already, so I am extremely reluctant.

 

[Duckweed]

I'd like to contribute more at this point but I'm afraid I do not have enough overall acuteness to add value compared to you guys. I'll keep checking though, I might think of something...

These last turns are not that light, T160 victory might be our only possible shot at the Gold (if at all) and we don't have the necessary time to be 100% confident of the plan for it. Time for judgement calls (well more than usual)

I don't mind that if we lose 1 turn for suboptimal closing. PD had rushed many previous game (the only team that stuck to the original 3 month deadline in SGOTM12 and had never used an extension) long before the deadline. Not that we didn't know how to optimize the result, simply because I had had more fun of watch other teams finishing the game.

If you have time and are willing to play, don't yield.

I've played more than a third of our turns already, so I am extremely reluctant.

I played more than 50 turns as well.

 

[Doshin]

^^^^^ sure, but I haven't asked you to play any more turns.

 

[soundjata]

Guys, TSR have a save on turn 165.

Can we please win this game on lazy mode?

Going offline now.

I lied

 

[Duckweed]

^^^^^ sure, but I haven't asked you to play any more turns.

Sorry, I have not thought that you cared about turn division.

I'd love to, but my laptop is really slow at running game in later stage. (This is the 2nd time that my new PC requires technical support)

As I mentioned before, I could fit in anytime when others have RL issue. I'm happy to play some more turns if my PC did not die today.

Do you know why there's a rule to forbidden players to play more than 50 turns in the 1st 100 turns. That's because I played ~50 turns in the opening of SGOTM13, although that set took me ~15 minute to finish. The only unit I could manage was a worker in an island. There were also some player said that letting strong player play the opening was very unfair for the competition. Our team then proved in the next few games that any player opening the game had no effect on winning the gold.

 

[Doshin]

Kossin said he would have some time tonight, and has tested/thought about the end game more thoroughly. It would be good to have a more comprehensive plan. And it would be good not to have to play again...

Spoiler :

I've played more than a third of our turns already, so I am extremely reluctant.

The latest score graph has renewed my enthusiasm. If necessary (), I will refine my plan tomorrow in the morning (afternoon in Europe) and help push us to the finish line. Or maybe Duckweed can refine my initial plan while others play, since your PC is kaput. soundjata is willing to help play, thank goodness.

By tomorrow, we need to be at T154–5. I am supposing the next 5 turns will be more difficult than the 5 turns after that.

Do you know why there's a rule to forbidden players to play more than 50 turns in the 1st 100 turns. That's because I played ~50 turns in the opening of SGOTM13, although that set took me ~15 minute to finish. The only unit I could manage was a worker in an island. There were also some player said that letting strong player to play the opening was very unfair for the competition. Our team then proved in the next few games that any player to opening the game had no effect on winning the gold.

If players don't volunteer to play there is not much point to a team event. I keep assuming responsibility in the early game (SGOTM 17: Pyramids and GPP; SGOTM 18: Genghis rush; SGOTM 19: Asoka/TGL) because others say they are busy, but it is disappointing when I have to take over in the late stages as well (not an issue in SGOTM 17).

-----

Did you know that you can build Executives without Corporation? If you Galley chain from the corner with Forts, the Exec can be in Aksum within two turns, and then 5 turns of Mercantilism + Aluminum Co. can research Economics. The next few turns finish Corporation. The only limiting factor is Coal distribution.

 

[Duckweed]

^^Right after pomthom's finding

Even worse, it only needs SP and a connected coal to spread it.

We can't change our plan now.

As I said very early, This game is a tight balance between beakers and military race. The most possible reason that TSR is slow is because of military progress, easy seen from the power graph.

 

[kossin]

One more thing to remind, we don't need to wait for all the stacks ready to start the war with Nappy. Because Nappy is already in war mode, there's nothing to lose to start war earlier. Any stack that is ready can be the time to start the war. Just be sure that there's no wander units in Alex's empire ruins.

xpost with kossin.

The above reason is the answer to your arguments. We could use the healthy Cuis capture the nearby cities 1st. Probably next turn.

Difference for me is where the new units go. When threatened, cities will have more units. Instead of getting the core cities with <5 units, they'll have 7~8 and slow us down.

Anyway, I am out-voted so time to DoW Napoleon this turn (I guess?) rather than wait next turn...

@ Kossin: Your post #2100 on the previous page led me to think you were willing to complete the game. Maybe I misinterpreted that...

I don't mind keeping some turns on my side if it can help

I thought I'd have an easy week at home but it isn't so.

On the plus side, I've managed to free Wednesday for pretty much all day

I'm not sure whether kossin made some movements already. So wait for his reply 1st.

My PC just died this morning so I can't really help in the last few days.

From my memory, there are quite a few city micros to be changed. No infrastructure build in any city. No research, but wealth in tiny cities is fine.

The major draft sites should be the sheep city and some cities near the border. Cities that can't grow up to size 10 in time should focus on Cui whip in the next 5 turns.

Regarding the spreading plan, what Doshin posted is good enough.

No movement done, sorry I couldn't check CFC until now.

Guys, TSR have a save on turn 165.

Can we please win this game on lazy mode?

I lied

I noticed earlier the T156 save, this T164 save is new to me

Let me see if I can get a few turns tonight.

For city gifting, we have 4 bumpers - and 3 HC cities. That's 7! We can think of the logistics when we get closer to this deadline. For now, let's see what's in Barb Corner.

~~~

Let me know whether you prefer T161 or T162 Napoleon DoW...

 

[Doshin]

Let me know whether you prefer T161 or T162 Napoleon DoW...

T152 (plz ), if you agree with soundjata's assessment:

By the way, I see no reason to worry at all about Napoleon!

On turn 152, we have 8 units ready to strike from the east (Malatya T152 + Bursa on T153), 11 units from the North (Bantu 152, Samsun 152, Gazianthep 153), 10 units from the south west Kayseri 152 and Konya 153) and another stack of heavily promoted units near the ruins of Mecca, ready to strike the main force of Napoleon, which is inexorably attracted by Damascus.

In case it isn't clear, I support a DOW on T152.

On T156 Nappy's reduced to one city for sure.

Duckweed also favors T152.

----

The big source of anxiety (for me) in the spreading plan is . How much is this per Executive? 100G * 5 from T155&#8211;60? Any gold rush Execs will need to be spread out.

Anyway, green light from me.

 

[Duckweed]

The thing to be considered is Nappy's units around ruins. Judge yourself to see which turn is safe to go.

Difference for me is where the new units go. When threatened, cities will have more units. Instead of getting the core cities with <5 units, they'll have 7~8 and slow us down.

If Nappy is in peace now, sure the DOW date matters since it triggers him into war mode sooner so that we will face more units. That's the reason why I insisted on DOWing KK later. For now, most of Nappy's cities are producing units already, the only thing matters is that they will whip when our stack is threatening his cities (which only happens when a overpowered stack is 2 tiles away), Which cannot be avoided anyway.

In fact, I explained the above in short in the 1st post, but maybe you did not read carefully.

 

[kossin]

When I was working on my plan, there really weren't that many gold rushes required if we plan well with chopping and growing.

EDIT: Looking at spread plan... about 70% done. We can use only 3 bumpers if we want, there's a spare executive turn.

EDIT2: I have a fever and not feeling well, sleep and tomorrow I start playing a bit.

 

[pomthom]

Guys, TSR have a save on turn 165.

Can we please win this game on lazy mode?

Not gonna lie, this is good news

The only thing we can really screw up now is fog busting I guess

 

[kossin]

Work in progress.

Spoiler :

New Expenses

Rush-buy = 450 gold
Spread = 50 gold

5 rush-buy = -2250 gold
33 spreads = -1650 gold
---
-3900 gold

All in all, there will be 122 city-sushi-turns (1+2+4+8+13+17+22+25+30). To be conservative, I will consider the worst case city upkeep (Case Départ): -31
-31*0.75*1.2 (Adjusting for Free Market and Inflation)= -28

Sushi upkeep = 122*28 = -3416 gold

Total: 7316 gold

Income
Sushi turns are worth 4 gpt in Aksum: 122*4 = 488 gold
Turn-by-turn cash income= ~600*9 = 5400 gold [whipping will reduce income]
City plunder = 12*100 = 1200 gold
Total: 7088 gold

This is very close to the expenses which were overestimated. Together with extra wealth builds and pillage, barb cities to raze, gold should be good to go.

 

[Doshin]

I think we are ok. We may need to gold rush a few other builds (Workboats, Cuirassiers if we are desperate) but city capture gold should also be higher than 100G per city.

Gifting is tricky, if we are at war with Napoleon:

T152/3

Augsberg = Alex
Vienna = Alex ??? <----- lose Hagia Sophia, so only gift at EOT
DOW, raze Damascus and Vienna (= 2 turns needed?). Ceasefire.

T156

Ironclad = HC
Seville Bump = HC
Aachen = HC <------ assumes he will accept this

DOW, wipe out HC

T158&#8211;9

Cornish Cow Bump = Alex
Rice Pudding Bump = Alex

DOW, wipe out Alex

T159

Mycenian Bump = Napoleon?

OR

Yeha ----> Mycenian = 2 turns (spread on T160, no bump)​

You might have a better plan?

It is a shame to raze Vienna & Aachen so soon, but I don't think we'll have another option.

Aachen will need to be starved/whipped, so that HC can't whip a Longbow. Can a 3-movement unit immediately retake Aachen? If not, HC's current capital will benefit from Chichen Itza.

If you think it better, we could gift Aachen to Alex instead of Vienna. But Aachen can be whipped more easily, and it will be worth ~80GPT to us outside of revolt.

 

[kossin]

Yeha>Mycenian will be done in 2 turns, almost for certain, no need to complicate things if we can do it simply. As a matter of fact, we might want to use another city by that point if possible to avoid the rush-buy.

AI will accept any city when they have 3 or fewer.
AI will also accept any city within 9.5 tiles of another of their city if they can pay for it.

With the latter point, I'm thinking we can gift 4 cities to HC:
Ironclad, Seville bump, CCow bump, RP bump. The last 2 are quite close and we can give him gpt to help his finances so he will accept it. And then raze all of them afterwards. EDIT: about 20 gpt seems enough for 4 > 5 cities.

For the moment, there is no need to gift a city to Alex, so I will hold on to Vienna, Aachen and Augsburg for the current turn. Especially Vienna and Aachen which can be gifted at the last moment and then razed. (Alex should be willing to talk within 2~4 turns after Damascus falls, or we can allow Napoleon to take it altogether)

~~

DoW Napoleon on T152 seems easier to manage.

 

[pomthom]

Very clear plan kossin
I agree the "business plan" is sturdy enough to be flexible to unplanned expenses. Assuming it works, I'm also sold on your gifting suggestions

 

[kossin]

After CF with Alex, most of the units were bumped to the north of Damascus in the remains of Mecca.
6 healthy units are affected by loss of movement.

Spoiler :

I will still wait for next turn DoW since a lot of troops require shuffling. Basically only Samsun can be razed this turn so there's basically no difference.

 

[kossin]

T151 is taking forever

EDIT: Finally done. I can upload if anyone wants to check... it looks like a mess for now but in 2~3 turns it will all make sense.

 

[Doshin]

T151 is taking forever

EDIT: Finally done. I can upload if anyone wants to check... it looks like a mess for now but in 2~3 turns it will all make sense.

No need to upload every turn, now that research is done and squeezing out beakers (1 turn Biology ) becomes less important. Green light from me.

----

Next tech should be Communism. After we've flayed half our nation half to death to sustain our sushi habit, we should expect a revolution.