SGOTM 21 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

Ronnie1 · Jan 24, 2015

namliaM said:
Reasoning behind me sending the scout NW after initially securing Sparta....

1) it is 6 turns to unknown land towards NE, 4 to NW (or SW)
2) the food search near gems we did do already, none really there unless you count corn
3) Clear the fog for a city 1N or 2N of the current position of the lion, if there is seafood there might be a nice spot
Otherwize perhaps 1N or 1E of the deer might be a nice spot, I dont really see us going North of Corn city any time soon, while the deer spot may be in play earlier imho.

or,

1) There are 2 fogged tiles that could still feed the 2 gem city.
2) We want to find out if the other "island" is attached or not for those fish we can see.
3) this path also slows the generation of new barbs in the direction we intend to settle our 3rd city.
4) We have already exposed the immediate western area and not the immediate eastern or northern areas.
5) the currently visible corn site is better than the second deer imo

namliaM · Jan 24, 2015

1) didnt realize that
considering placement of other cities, dont think I would consider the far north position which might leave one tile.... Guess knowing is worth while before we make a potential big mistake not picking up a wheat or something there.... Though we may want/need it for a city in that area there..... Looks pretty brown around there.

2) valid point, which can also be done using the Galley after taking care of Beaver Isle (or a later warrior)

3) true, valid point

5) depends on what hides in the fog

Think you made a good case for going NE,

Ronnie1 · Jan 24, 2015

Tried a few runs building GLH in Athens. Not sure I like the approach. All the available food there seems much more efficient at producing settlers and workers, especially in the short run because it is hard to grow pop in the other 2 cities. It is very possible to get a decent date, but the rest of the empire seems to suffer.

Looking back for when the Oracle was dropping in my tests, as early as T60, and not gone by T81.

namliaM · Jan 24, 2015

Biggest issue at hand for the next 14 turns to BW is the next tech after that and resultung worker actions...
A) AH > sailing
S) Sailing > AH

I dont think there is a major difference in TGL dates between the two which makes me inclined to go for A

Definate plan will depend on that future choice and then waying farming tile near Athens + mine near Sparta vs Farm the cow in time for Sparta @ size 2

final question affecting build queue in this 14 turns is my post #301
0) Force settler at size 4
This works the Grass mine at size 3 to slow growth and speed the WB, starts the Settler a turn earlier and obviously more risk to settle Corinth
Basicaly throw caution to the wind regarding fogged tiles.

1) get Corinth asap
1a) risk the two fogged tiles (ref #301)
1b) force the warrior by a turn from sparta to defog the tiles

2) delay Corinth
2a) 1 turn, finish the warrior probably after the settler
2b) 2 turns adding MP to Athens

With answers to those two key questions I can adjust the plan

Scouting I do believe will go NE to see if we can find an alternate placing for Corinth
Worker actions in particular depend on A or S
Builds depend on 0/1/2 (a/b) as do tiles worked in Athens in particular

My prefered plan would be A and 2b

namliaM · Jan 24, 2015

Ronnie1 said:
Tried a few runs building GLH in Athens. Not sure I like the approach. All the available food there seems much more efficient at producing settlers and workers, especially in the short run because it is hard to grow pop in the other 2 cities. It is very possible to get a decent date, but the rest of the empire seems to suffer.

Growth can be stunned a lot by giving the what to Corinth basicaly from turn 1
I was pre-building a settler to (near as) 61 hammers left from complete to 3 pop whip when reaching (near) max food at size 6.

Alternately we can build it to 31 hammers for 2 pop whip but that takes more prep time... This should though preserve a pop to work the mine (sooner) might be slightly faster to get TGL build

Another alternative grows Athens into unhappy at size 7 first to keep working the mine(s) but loses food on that transition overall.

Since we (post Beaver-isle settler) will need mostly warriors and combined growth of Athens and Corinth works nicely, is why I advocate building the lighthouse in Athens

Some considerations regarding when to time the whip of the settler and where / when to send it too.... (regarding Corn city or Beaver Isle)

Ronnie1 · Jan 24, 2015

My vote is to farm the cow, planning on having copper.

Regarding 2nd settler build. My vote would be to grow to size 5 the turn we build an mp warrior and start the settler then. WB > WB > Warrior > Settler using beaver then nets as 4the best tile. I think that is your 2B.

namliaM · Jan 25, 2015

OK, so about worker turns
End situation @ turn 32

a) farm the cow for size 2 @ Sparta
Finish Mine
1 turn farm W of wheat
Farm cow

This generated in my test run a 2 beaker overflow, which means we could run 80% at the first turn and save 2 gold. Just need to take the 2 extra gold into account imagining we dont have it.
Alternatively this might cause problems at the end of sailing?

b) Farm the cow after farming W of wheat
- 2 turns delay on getting the gem @ sparta up
Finish mine
Farm W of wheat
Farm cow

Athens works the farm @ Size 3 over the mine, then mine + Beaver at size 4
This delays the Settler starting @ Athens by 1 turn

Athens works the Mine @ Size 3 over the farm,

c) Mine the grass hill
- 1 turn delay on getting the gem @ Sparta up
Finish mine
Farm W of wheat
Mine hill

This basicaly differs in Athens 2 hammers to 2 food vs option a
Working the farm earlier makes the WB Delay for more foad, which grows us into unhappy too fast...
Not really gaining much vs loosing food/commerce for not working the crabs together with the delay of the gem mine....
Think I just fell out of love with this option...

So this means with some more detailed looking into, I seem to agree with you Ronnie.
Option A would seem to fit best. Thought we run into worker turn trouble a bit later on not actually fixing the cow pasture untill turn 50-ish...
OR we fix the Pasture ASAP, lose some hammers for working the lake over a Mined hill. Though more food should result in earlier growth, hopefully regaining the hammers in the future
Though initially we grow to size 3 a turn earlier with the farm (adding 2 hammers from the gem hill)
Then working the lake one turn finishing the Warrior Allows us to get Sailing in 1 turn at 0%

With the 2 gold tweak in see attached save to be my target (minus getting the scout killed

)
Not sure we wouldnt prefer the 2 beakers for sailing to come in though

namliaM · Jan 25, 2015

Which makes for everything put together

Worker actions
Mine Hill
Farm 1 turn @ Athens *
Farm Cow
Get to Gem

* Or can be swapped for adding 2 turns into a farm @ Sparta, however I doubt that farm will ever get finished where as the one near Athens will be good for something atleast.... atleast imo

Athens
Settler
WB (Net @ Sparta)
WB (Net @ Athens)
Warrior
Settler

Sparta
Warrior > Worker

Tech Bronzeworking
Building gold one turn, then going 100% untill we need more gold again. (dont save the 2 gold

)

nocho · Jan 25, 2015

^ This (post 328) looks good enough to me as PPP.

Sleepless · Jan 25, 2015

nocho said:
^ This (post 328) looks good enough to me as PPP.

And me...

Also have to remember if we do pop bronze in Athens on the river our warrior builds go out of the window.

haphazard1 · Jan 25, 2015

I agree that the plan in post 328 looks pretty good to me. Let's hope we do have some copper somewhere.

Ronnie1 · Jan 25, 2015

I agree with post #328 as PPP.

Straight binary research through BW produces the best total output. 3 tuns @0% gives us enough gold to finish BW.

Ronnie1 · Jan 25, 2015

* Or can be swapped for adding 2 turns into a farm @ Sparta, however I doubt that farm will ever get finished where as the one near Athens will be good for something atleast.... atleast imo

Just looked at this. I think the farm at Sparta would get used with all those hills also. So either way.

namliaM · Jan 25, 2015

With 4 people agreeing, I will get the save and play soon-ish

namliaM · Jan 25, 2015

OK, turns played, mistakes made... for which my appologies.... so many test runs and still

1) I forgot to save every turn to make sure, nothing major but can see I am not used to it

2) forgot to check Athens after it grew, we worked the Grass forest hill 2 turns before swapping to the beaver (in my game it was there default).
Losing 2 commerce gaining 2 hammers

Still got Bronzeworking T32 and save is uploaded

We met shaka zulu's scout due west of Sparta on turn 21, he circled land north of Sparta where he got sandwiched between a wolf and a Lion. The Lion ate the scout and was still lurking due NW of Sparta last I seen at 1.1/2 health.

Our scout found a wolf and retreated to the forest hill, wolf died
after crossing the river a lion was found, lion died trying to attack our scout accross the river, in a forrest
scout is promoted woods 1

Ingame log

Spoiler :

Save is paused, neither worker nor scout have moved.... I think the bear (was southeast of the Scout) disappeared on the IBT I saw it with hostile moves on, then wasnt there anymore at turn 32

Judaism was founded T31

Upload log

Spoiler :

nocho · Jan 25, 2015

Sounds good. So no copper?

namliaM · Jan 25, 2015

No copper anywhere to be found...

haphazard1 · Jan 25, 2015

No copper.

Pollux and Deckhand are not going to make this easy on us, looks like.

Shaka...blech.

Not exactly someone I want as a neighbor. Impressive his scout died, though -- with the bonus AIs get at immortal I am used to seeing AI scouts kill bears. :lol:

Let's hope we have some horses somewhere, or we may end up teching Archery just so we can defend ourselves from barbs. I am thinking AH has become a bigger priority.

Edit: Start of thread posts updated with the latest information, reports, etc.

nocho · Jan 25, 2015

No copper, so AH now would make even more sense. Sure hope we don't end up without horses either, but if we do, then it would also be good to know that asap.

Ronnie1 · Jan 25, 2015

nocho said:
No copper, so AH now would make even more sense. Sure hope we don't end up without horses either, but if we do, then it would also be good to know that asap.

Totally agree here!

@MM, can you please play the test game up to current position and update the map where necessary?

SGOTM 21 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

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