[BTS] SGOTM 25 Lurker Thread

[Gumbolt]

Could they of been given a galleon? It's unclear to me if they actually made any real use of it. Self teching 3-4k tech would of been impressive.

That city next to York on our game. Had 3 clams and corn. Nice little GP farm. Likely had 4 LB too.

 

[babybluepants]

Banking was also out there - England and Rome. Ottoman/French could either have had Edu or Guilds, which leads to Banking, which is on the path to Corp. Unless there is proof of Edu beyond GP being open. No one had Econ, because no FM, unless an AI prefers Merc to FM under these conditions. There are still some techs missing, though.

 

[WastinTime]

English had replacement parts.and rifles. They were building lumbermills. Big giveaway.
Japan was building factories and shaleplants. Assembly line and CS.
French in our game had astronomy. So likely started with Edu and possibly optics. They did not have compass. Astronomy from the start?

My post was our pre-T0 analysis of the scores. Certainly, once we saw lumbermills, England had RepParts.
French did not have a galleon at the start when we scouted. We spotted a galleon much later. Also, no way they can tech that fast, so they started with Astro.
Japan had CS, but could not have had Assembly line (based on score), so they were given the factory/power buildings. Also Germany had buildings too, IIRC.
And yea, once we started the game, we found out about the ones with Banking.
Still a few missing pieces.

 

[elitetroops]

We teched Paper (for UoS) and French had Edu available for trade. Japan was building factories and shale plants. We saw them do it in our gift city.

 

[babybluepants]

Did Ottomans have Edu available?
Berlin also had a factory, iirc.

 

[elitetroops]

Ottomans were dead...

Here's my initial analysis of score:

For scoring purposes, known techs are converted to tech points (the number x in x/334 when you hover over scoreboard). Ancient techs are worth 1 point, classical 2 points, medieval 3 points, renaissance 4 points, industrial 5 points, modern 6 points and future 7 points. A normal classical start would have everyone start with 17 points for 17 ancient techs.

In this game starting techs give the following points:

Roosevelt: 28
Churchill: 28
Stalin: 27
Bismarck: 27
Toku: 25
Mehmed: 23
Julius: 20

Toku at 25 indicates all Ancient techs + 8 points, which would be one industrial and one medieval = CS+AL.

Stalin's cities indicated modern era. Using deduction, I came to the conclusion that most likely it must be Superconductors (for UB), other option Mass Media to let him build UN and open up that scoring option. The rest would have showed something on tech screen, obsoleted units he could still build, or only provided access to space parts/recycling center, which makes no sense.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

But..sorry i just really dislike EP culture.
I think this should not be part of any game in the future, for sgotm.
We had enuf of this now?

I think the critical thing for SGOTM is that teams have interesting choices to make, I'm going to be the MapMaker for SGOTM 26 and I hope I have achieved that with my concept and map. I will also document my thoughts / motivation for choices etc so I can share afterwards and learn what worked and what didn't.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I think the critical thing for SGOTM is that teams have interesting choices to make, I'm going to be the MapMaker for SGOTM 26 and I hope I have achieved that with my concept and map. I will also document my thoughts / motivation for choices etc so I can share afterwards and learn what worked and what didn't.

Spoiler alert! Thanks.


just kidding

 

[WastinTime]

Toku at 25 indicates all Ancient techs + 8 points, which would be one industrial and one medieval = CS+AL.

you're correct of course. pre-game I was guessing that most AI had a few free classicals (toku with 3 + CS), but yea, AL + CS fits too. I never bothered to think about the free techs once we got started which is why we were so surprised each time we discovered another one.

 

[Gumbolt]

Japan had CS, but could not have had Assembly line (based on score), so they were given the factory/power buildings. Also Germany had buildings too, IIRC.
And yea, once we started the game, we found out about the ones with Banking.
Still a few missing pieces.

They built a shale plant in our gift city we gave them. Pretty sure they had this. Also explains their slow builds/exoansion here.

They 100% could not build this without the above tech. We had 4-8k EP on them.

Betting Germans had the tech too. They were slow expanding here too.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Seems AIs didn't REX because they were so "advanced"!

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Unintended consequences...

 

[Gumbolt]

English were pretty much only able to build Redcoats. No axe/sword available. No horse. Toku spent a long while just building production facilities. If they all had advanced units it's likely they would of needed to 3-4 pop whip to slow build them. Albeit one team did face a reasonably large German stack. We faced a small stack in the Russian capital that led to one retreat with no losses. The Ai were very distracted this game. Also makes RNG unreliable. Attacking a Redcoat in a city is no given even with a bomber and 6 well promoted units. At 50% discount they can easily kill 3-4 units and may not even take damage. It would of been unfair if the English had managed to spam a stack of Redcoats. Unlike the Toku SGOTM where OS faced 20+ of them.

Even so if they had built 5-6 cities pretty sure the top teams would of gifted 4 cities for a quick vassal on most. So where does that get you unless you ban the gifting of cities to bring back a more traditional war game? I suspect that would of made this game more about the warfare than EP/Culture. Pretty sure HS could of easily got 150k culture here.

Actually banning gifting of cities next game would be interesting. It restricts culture and war tricks heavily.

That or a points system that gives teams penalty options to speed up their games? Each time you take an option you either receive a turn penalty on end date or a points penalty on end date. You balance this out with a points score for number of turns game takes. So maybe 2 points a turn with a penalty for certain abused tricks.

I still like the 2 settler players 3 settler for Ai option.

 

[SittinDown]

Germany had buildings too, IIRC.

Yep, Berlin had a factory that we captured.

 

[SittinDown]

question - everyone (but us) won conquest. did everyone else Astro, or did people get America to vassal?

 

[Deckhand]

They all vassaled America.
It was relatively easy because America didn't expand much in North America and thus could be gifted cities that were then captured.

 

[WastinTime]

They all vassaled America.
It was relatively easy because America didn't expand much in North America and thus could be gifted cities that were then captured.

We also vassaled England which was harder due to the high power of redcoats. I suspect most teams did. We only killed one redcoat.

America was always going to be easy to vassal even if they had expanded beyond 4 cities because the scenario gave us an American city which they would always take back as a gift.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

SGOTM 26 - Lady Stoneheart, Queen of the Ice Age, has been announced.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

It was relatively easy because America didn't expand much in North America and thus could be gifted cities that were then captured.

Now we have the WB file I ran it through the AI Autoplay Mod - it's only one run but Roosevelt expanded throughout the Americas and won with a Space victory on t325!

 

[Gumbolt]

So from world builder.

French - Astronomy and edu
Toku - CS
Americans - refrigeration and industrialism. They lacked rifling and other techs so this was never going to happen.
English Banking, RP and rifles.
Germans - Assembly line and industrialism. Lacked rifling.
Romans - banking
Russians - Super conductor.
Mehmed - Edu.

Still not sure what any of these techs were supposed to do. Americans had tech for a corp but they were surrounded by LB defended barb cities. They were never going to go anywhere by time HS had won game. Yeah gusessing eventually Americans would of taken advantage of huge land mass.

So on your run the Americans started to capture the barb cities. No doubt all size 5-6+ by now/ The Ai on other continent spent whole time at war. Ultimately leaving Americans to expand and takeover a whole continent. Really doubt the other Ai had a chance to win this unless the Americans failed to take barb cities.