[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Home Slices

Therefore, we do this:

T101 CoL+10g for Monarchy (even with a paused game we can check this deal and he wants 65g+alpha for CoL)

T102 CS for Alpha + our 10 gold back? + map + 4 diplo,
more T102: Meditation (+Mono?) for Caste+Bureau

T103 Peter might get Philo, but maybe can't? switch to Tao for 5 turns? I don't recall if a recent civics switch stops him. Maybe not.
Either way, he may require a spy religion flip later :(
** Do we need to whip a spy in Whales instead of missionary? and then Silver has to do Whales' missionary.
Ok, this tech trading plan sounds good to me now.

A spy huh?
I'd rather send the missionary and hope for the best.
We have 2 galleys, so sending a Spy + a horde of Confu missionaries later is not a huge hurdle.

If Confu is in all 5 of Peter's Cities, he will be Confu or can be bribed to be Confu.
Every Confu city Peter has won't get a natural spread from Taoism.
Peter won't have Org. Religion for a while.

The Galley dropping off our Chariot T105 down south can double back to get workers onto our island for marble in time, so both of our other Galleys can focus on Peter.
 
Maybe I should move the galley back and check whether the GS is still alive?
Good thought, but the timing is best if we sail on east. Knowing he has the GS or not doesn't really matter to our plans I think.
It seems he has no roads and forests are slowing the GS's possible walk to Moscow.

fyi, We missed defogging a tile SW of Moscow, but map trade will fix that, so don't return for that either.
 
A spy huh?
I'd rather send the missionary and hope for the best.
What are we hoping for? That Peter will switch to Confu due to higher population of Confu? I think he won't with the Holy Tao city.
However, we can simply bribe him to switch as long has he has enough confu pop. So, yeah. Skip the spy and put confu in a large (nonTao) city. It might spread fast. At least Peter cannot switch to OrgRel and cannot have any monasteries yet, so no missionaries (except the free one :() and other free speads :(
 
What are we hoping for? That Peter will switch to Confu due to higher population of Confu? I think he won't with the Holy Tao city.
However, we can simply bribe him to switch as long has he has enough confu pop. So, yeah. Skip the spy and put confu in a large (nonTao) city. It might spread fast. At least Peter cannot switch to OrgRel and cannot have any monasteries yet, so no missionaries (except the free one :() and other free speads :(
We got some free beakers from Peter knowing Polytheism when we teched it.
Let's move the Missionary whip in Whale City up 1 turn and spread Confu to Peter as fast as possible. (Start missionary T103 instead of Monastery)
If we are short on Education because of these few beakers, we can just build :science: in a city or two.

Once Peter switches to Confucianism, he won't switch to Tao for 15 turns.
We can try to convert all of his heavy population cities to Confu, and when he does switch to Tao we can bribe him back 5 turns later.

Civic changes and Religion changes are on seperate timers and don't affect each other.
11) Influence Civics - Force target AI to adopt a civic the player is currently running.
Target civ must have the required technology to be forced to switch to the player Civic.
This does not cause the target AI to experience 1 turn of civilization-wide Anarchy.
Base Cost is 600:espionage: on Normal Speed,402:espionage: on Quick Speed, 900:espionage: on Epic Speed, and 1200:espionage: on Marathon Speed.
Base Mission Success Odds for 1 Spy with -10% wait bonus is 82%
  • Extremely strong. Can force an AI out of emancipation. Can force an AI into Caste if the player is running that, then the player can switch to Slavery and DOW an AI that can't whip. :evil: Can force an AI into Free Religion breaking their favorable religious situation or double AP votes.
  • Even worse, being forced to change civics by a spy also triggers the 5 turn "Cannot Change Civics Because of Revolution" timer. The AI is stuck with its new civic for 5 turns.
  • Even worse, the player can switch the AI's civics and reset the 5 turn "Cannot Change Civics Because of Revolution" timer.
    Spoiler :
  • When an AI grows weary of running whatever civic they were forced into by the player, they will switch back to what they like the most and experience civilization wide Anarchy if not Spiritual, a huge deal for large empires. This tends to occur 25 turns after the last natural civic change (or 10 turns for Spiritual AI) at the earliest if the AI gets a new civic they want to switch into. If the AI natural civic change timer is less than 10 turns and the player bribes the AI to change civics (this does cause civilization-wide Anarchy to non-spiritual civs :), unlike the spy influence civic mission which does not), then the AI natural civic change timer is reset to 10 turns and not 25.
  • Testing indicates a spy influence civic change does not reset the AI's natural civic change timer. In testing, Bismark naturally generated changed civic messages for the player on turn 25, turn 51, turn 77, turn 103, etc. A spy flip to Caste on turn 49 by the player delayed Bismark from naturally changing civics on turn 51, so he generated a changed civic message on turn 55 instead of turn 51. This can be understood by Bismark getting a "Can't change civics for 5 turns" message on his turn 49, Bismark changing his civic on his turn 54, and the human getting the message about the civic change on turn 55. In testing, a spiritual civ Isabella generated natural civic change messages for the player on turn 11, turn 22, turn 33, turn 44, etc.
12) Influence Religion - Force target AI to adopt the state religion the player is currently running.
Target civ must have the player's state religion present in at least one city in their empire.
This does not cause the target AI to experience 1 turn of civilization-wide Anarchy.
Player spy can perform Influence Religion mission in any AI city and not just the one containing the player's state religion.
Base Cost is 600:espionage: on Normal Speed,402:espionage: on Quick Speed, 900:espionage: on Epic Speed, and 1200:espionage: on Marathon Speed.
Base Mission Success Odds for 1 Spy with -10% wait bonus is 82%
  • Very strong. Forcing an AI to adopt the player's religion can instantly change the diplomatic situation. Getting an AI to Friendly this way also allows for monopoly tech trading. :thumbsup:
  • Being forced to change civics by a spy also triggers the 5 turn "Cannot Change Religions Because of Revolution" timer. The AI is stuck with its new religion for 5 turns.
  • The natural religion change timer for an AI is completely separate from the natural civic change timer. A natural civic change by the AI did not delay the natural religious change timer. Natural religion changes tends to occur 15 turns after the last natural religious change (or 10 turns for Spiritual AI). In testing, Alexander switched religions on turn 15, turn 31, turn 47, etc. Isabella switched religions on turn 2, turn 13, turn 24, etc. etc.
  • The AI can change both civics and religion on the same turn naturally. If the natural religion change needs to be delayed 1 turn for AP reasons and no spies are available, try bribing the AI to switch civics with gold or techs. This causes civilization-wide Anarchy for at least 1 turn and will definitely prevent a religious switch for 1 turn.
So I think we bribe him into Caste + Bureaucracy, convert him to Confu, and try to send over 2 more missionaries in the future.

Hope for the best in the short term, that we can convert him before he bulbs Philo.
Then hope he bulbs Philo in the 15 turns after we convert him.

Keep sending missionaries over so we can bribe him back to Confucianism in the future no matter what happens.
 
Last edited:
When a GS is announced (T100 in this case), It can't be used or moved til 101.
I doubt Peter would settle it in Nov, so it's likely he's walking to Moscow and could do Academy or settle T103.
So, the question is: Lock in his Philo bulb T102? and deal with Tao?
Or hold back Medi and gamble that he'll get another GS....keeping in mind, Moscow will have a dirty gene pool. Or Philo could get bulbed in a far away land.
I think I'd rather see Philo here locally and deal with Tao.
 
Agreed, let's encourage Peter to bulb Philosophy and deal with Tao as required. Getting Philosophy in trade saves turns from our game and we have time to deal with any negative diplo hits.
 
According to the in-game event log, Peter got Great Scientist 400BC.

It is currently 350BC

Agreed, let's encourage Peter to bulb Philosophy and deal with Tao as required. Getting Philosophy in trade saves turns from our game and we have time to deal with any negative diplo hits.
Yes, I think we can manage Tao Peter long term.
 
Just so we don't get free spread of Tao :mad: and he demands we switch to Tao :mad: and our confu fails to spread to our own city :mad:
 
Will Friendly Peter still trade Philo if he’s building a Philo wonder?

If so, absolutely enable his philo bulb asap. If not, maybe enable anyway. He hasn’t been building wonders anyway.
 
He's building one now, but A.Wat is a big one, and he doesn't have Stone (we should NOT give him stone even if we want a few turns of +diplo for resources)
I believe the AI won't start a wonder if it takes too many turns, so hopefully this water map gives low production, and he won't start it. He should be busy with other things, especially if he has a religion.
He would probably start Chichen, ToA, and Moai before AWat.
 
We have a few minor tweaks to the PPP but the main one is this from WT:

101 CoL+10g for Monarchy (even with a paused game we can check this deal and he wants 65g+alpha for CoL)
T102 CS for Alpha + our 10 gold back? + map + 4 diplo,
more T102: Meditation (+Mono?) for Caste+Bureau

Are we ready to roll on now? Or are there other changes we need to agree on (like the Spy which sounds like an idea that got dropped in favor of sending missionaries instead)?

MG, what is your plan for when you'd like to play?
 
Will Friendly Peter still trade Philo if he’s building a Philo wonder?
I ran a test game just now. Friendly AI still refuses to trade if he is working on a wonder.

workers gotta do the wine.
For the 4 workers working around capital city right now, I don't think they have time to improve the wine before they finish chopping for Oxford. I will send Heretic, the 1 near canal city to help. He is about to mine a tundra hill and after that he will have nothing to do.
**edit**
I didn't see Shepherd has spare time. He will do it then.

what is your plan for when you'd like to play
I can play right now. Just checking some details.
 
PPP patch

T101
Col+10g for Peter's Monarchy
move Shepherd to improve the wine

T102
Civil Service for Alphabet+gold+map+fair trade attitude
bribe Peter to switch to Bureaucracy+Caste with Meditation+Monotheism
**Do not give Peter our map!

T103
spread Confu to whale
whale city build missionary

T104
whip missionary in whale city
 
bribe Peter to switch to Bureaucracy+Caste with Meditation+Monotheism
Meditation + ??
If he'll switch for just Medi, we're gonna do just that, right?
If it's a small amt of cash, maybe we'd rather not give him Mono?

Or maybe we want the +1 tech trade sooner (or even thinking ahead to +2 tech). He'll probably research Mono. So do we just give him Mono?
 
Tech trades required to receive +1 "shared your technological discoveries with us" - 5
The goal is easy to reach. I will save Monotheism if possible.
Naturally, try to get Bureau + caste + any cash he has.
Okay. I'm just not sure how much it would cost for a civilization of this size. My only experience is about bribing my vassals to give up emancipation.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom